Ubisoft the graphics powerhouse

Carfax83

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The emerging release of the PS4 and Xbox One is undoubtedly upping the ante big time for graphical goodness compared to last generation's feeble hardware, and nowhere is this more evident than with two of Ubisoft's newest titles coming out this year; Assassin's Creed IV and Watch Dogs. (watch in HD)

I have to admit, I'm seriously impressed by how awesome the graphics are, the scale of the gaming Worlds and the amount of detail being presented :eek:

A lot of the extra effects that should have been in Far Cry 3 like tessellation, interactive vegetation, are now in Assassin's Creed IV a long with many other new features.. They'll be in Watch Dogs as well..

And coincidentally, both of these titles have the PC as the lead platform. A sign of things to come, and that things are finally changing in our favor :awe:
 

futurefields

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2012
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AC4 is an Xbox 360 game

I do agree about Ubisoft, i love that they are emphasizing open worlds.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
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FC3 got boring quick. No amount of tessellation would have prevented that. I can find better things to do in a game than play with interactive vegetation lol but whatever. Ubisoft definitely seems to be heading in a better direction than they were a few years back, especially in regards to their fight against piracy, at least they are not so outspoken and hateful about it like they were.
I'm more interested in Splinter cell than the other 2 mentioned but obviously ever new console release shows an uptick of graphics in general.
Even though Crysis displayed most everything we are seeing more of now way back in 2007.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
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The emerging release of the PS4 and Xbox One is undoubtedly upping the ante big time for graphical goodness compared to last generation's feeble hardware, and nowhere is this more evident than with two of Ubisoft's newest titles coming out this year; Assassin's Creed IV and Watch Dogs. (watch in HD)

I have to admit, I'm seriously impressed by how awesome the graphics are, the scale of the gaming Worlds and the amount of detail being presented :eek:

A lot of the extra effects that should have been in Far Cry 3 like tessellation, interactive vegetation, are now in Assassin's Creed IV a long with many other new features.. They'll be in Watch Dogs as well..

And coincidentally, both of these titles have the PC as the lead platform. A sign of things to come, and that things are finally changing in our favor :awe:

Both of these games are on PC but are going to still be hampered by the cross generational nature of the engines. Until the PS3 and 360 die anyway.

AC4 is an Xbox 360 game

I do agree about Ubisoft, i love that they are emphasizing open worlds.

It is cross generational like watch dogs, cod: ghosts etc.

Also will be on PC.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
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The game certainly looks nice, but AC3 was not that well received, and the main complaint wasn't the graphics. :p So, let's hope they work on the story and overall presentation!
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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The game certainly looks nice, but AC3 was not that well received, and the main complaint wasn't the graphics. :p So, let's hope they work on the story and overall presentation!

I believe that some of the story that revolved around "the white man burned the red man's villages and stole land." was very poorly received. It was like they treated the player as an idiot and had to hand feed you the idea that "british = templar & colonist = assassin" and the whole "I...am your father" thing was very lame. The gameplay, boring as always. You could literally just parry and instakill and then move to the next. Not even a challenge. Then the whole convoluted thing with Desmond and Minerva is ridiculous. Shield the earth from cosmic radiation? I expected something a little bit more impactful.

For me the draw of the Assassin's Creed games was building an old city in the games with all the old cathedrals and architecture with backstory on each. That was gone with a move to New York and Boston IMO
 
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futurefields

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It is cross generational like watch dogs, cod: ghosts etc.

Also will be on PC.

I know that. I said it's an 360 game because OP was obviously implying that these games are based on next-gen hardware which they are not, by virtue of the fact that the engines are still being designed to run on 512 mb consoles like the Xbox 360.

Did I say it's *only* an Xbox 360 game? No I did not.
 

Carfax83

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Nov 1, 2010
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AC4 is an Xbox 360 game

It doesn't matter. The point is that Ubisoft, and all the other major developers are prioritizing PC and next gen console development over last gen consoles.

Making the PC the lead platform, and extolling the features and enhancements of the next gen platforms while basically putting the Xbox 360 and PS3 on ignore :biggrin:
 

Carfax83

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Both of these games are on PC but are going to still be hampered by the cross generational nature of the engines. Until the PS3 and 360 die anyway.

I don't think thats going to happen, at least not with Watch Dogs. Assassin's Creed IV uses an upgraded version of the Anvil engine, so you're probably right in that respect. I think Assassin's Creed IV will have loading screens, but only when calling into major port cities like Havana, Kingston etcetera.

But Watch Dogs uses a brand new scalable engine, similar to Frostbite 3. PC and next gen performance and quality should not be compromised on this new engine..
 

PrincessFrosty

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And coincidentally, both of these titles have the PC as the lead platform. A sign of things to come, and that things are finally changing in our favor :awe:

If you look at the entire last generation of consoles and maybe a few years before then, the pattern was for games to shift towards multi-platform development with consoles being the lowest common denominator and PC getting stuck with constrained games.

As PC hardware pulled further and further ahead it put more strain on developers, I think it became harder to ignore 10-20x more processing power in the PC space, and so later in the console life cycle (the last 1-2 years) we've seen a slow move towards the PC offerings being given some special attention.

But I think it will be cyclical, once consoles jump to only being 1-2x slower than PC and no longer 10-20x slower, they'll become the lead platforms again, PC will ignored, it won't make too much difference because the power delta between the 2 starts off relatively low, but it won't be more than a few years before PC is sporting significantly more power again and we see the same resistance to spend that on anything.

If I had to make predictions, it will be 1-2 years of better games due to an improved lowest common denominator, followed by a 6 year stagnation where we see the same quality over and over, maybe followed by 1-2 years near the end where developers start to slowly focus back on the PC due to what will be a return to 20x power lead, rinse and repeat.

The main problem is that the bulk of the time, the 6 year period on the middle, is stagnant, prior to multi-platform development, that same 6 year period would have seen developers using that power increase over time as soon is practical leading to a smooth increase in quality over time, rather than 6 year gaps between innovation.
 

Carfax83

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If I had to make predictions, it will be 1-2 years of better games due to an improved lowest common denominator, followed by a 6 year stagnation where we see the same quality over and over, maybe followed by 1-2 years near the end where developers start to slowly focus back on the PC due to what will be a return to 20x power lead, rinse and repeat.

I don't think that prediction will hold for one simple reason; the new consoles share the same architecture as the PC this time around.

That makes porting games easier, and as such, that's why developers will start to use the top down approach to game development (which is easier) rather than the lowest common denominator.

In other words, the PC is the lead platform, and then everything is scaled down for the consoles.

It should have been like this before, but with the previous generation having different architectures and being far less powerful (and more profitable), a lot of devs developed for the consoles first in terms of assets and then tried to scale upwards, which is harder and gives inferior results..

As PC hardware pulled further and further ahead it put more strain on developers, I think it became harder to ignore 10-20x more processing power in the PC space, and so later in the console life cycle (the last 1-2 years) we've seen a slow move towards the PC offerings being given some special attention.

This is true, but even so, many of the game assets were still taken directly from the consoles. Take a game like Crysis 3, and you'll find plenty of consolization despite getting quite a few PC centric features.
 

PrincessFrosty

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I don't think that prediction will hold for one simple reason; the new consoles share the same architecture as the PC this time around.

That makes porting games easier, and as such, that's why developers will start to use the top down approach to game development (which is easier) rather than the lowest common denominator.

Porting games getting easier (as it did with the current generation) is what got us in to this mess in the first place.

Prior to the 360 and PS3, porting games was harder, in fact "porting" isn't something that even really occurs any more, all the major game engines allow for parallel development on both platforms.

This is actually the issue, not the solution. The easier it gets to write one code base for multiple platforms the more code and assets they'll share, and so the lowest common denominator decides the quality for all platforms.

Back when ports were made it was often the case that having to re-factor your code and assets for the PC was a good thing because when you did that you might as well do it in such a way that is more tailored for the PC since you're having to put in a minimum amount of effort to do it anyway.

It's why modern multi-platform games are bleeding more and more console features into the PC, Crysis 2 mutliplayer on the PC released with auto-aim in game, can you believe that?! It was almost a landmark for FPS gamers. We also see "press A" or "press X" and stuff like this, it's just lazyness and devs being cheap.

The easier to do multi-platform, the more expectations of developers and publishers shift towards doing little to no work for the PC release.

Ideally to get the best on both platforms you would start with the highest quality platform and downscale, but this is an idealistic point of view which isn't congruent with reality because in reality what decides the primary platform for development isn't the complexity/quality available, but the size of the consumer base. There's way more console gamers than PC gamers and that's what puts consoles first.
 

Stringjam

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Jun 30, 2011
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Though I'm always happy to see the bar move forward with graphic quality, I wish they would invest more resources into scripting better AI behaviors.

Ubisoft was on the right track with FarCry2. I still remember the first time I saw an injured NPC crawl behind a stack of wood to hide, and another NPC run to pull a fallen comrade to safety.

It left me very optimistic about what they would release with FarCry3.....how much farther they would take their behavioral scripting. What we got was nothing. They carried over absolutely none of it.

But it's not like these devs use it as marketing tool......"Hey!!! You should see our new behavior tree!!!"

Don't they see the potential here? It's a field with so much pioneering left to do.

One thing you almost never see is NPC's get scared (this did happen sometimes in FC2, though). It happens all the time in real life. Wouldn't it be interesting to see an NPC freeze up? Maybe throw down his weapon? Then you actually have a decision to make......a serious one.

But no....people will get all excited that the newest round of games has even more tasteless implemention of DoF and lens flare than the last. And awesome.....we have dynamic vegetation (something Crytek was doing almost 8 years ago....with sub-surface scattering like we had never seen before in a game...).

Don't get me wrong, I love graphic fidelity. I'm just tired of poor writing, cliche, generic stories, no character development, dialog for underdeveloped teenagers, NPC's with no soul, etc...etc.....

And Ubisoft made this big deal about hiring expert writers before FC3. Really? Whoever wrote that inane bro-script should be ashamed. I didn't really care if any of those idiots died or not. Vaas was an interesting fellow. Other than him, it was just.......bleh.
 
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blackened23

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Jul 26, 2011
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Surprised this hasn't devolved into a complaint fest about uplay! (By the way, uplay has improved substantially and I consider it pretty hassle free just like steam). Anyway, i've been a big fan of what Ubisoft has been doing over the course of the past year - I love all of the AC games, and it looks like their future games will be great as well. Definitely looking forward to both AC4 and Watch Dogs.
 

blackened23

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Ideally to get the best on both platforms you would start with the highest quality platform and downscale, but this is an idealistic point of view which isn't congruent with reality because in reality what decides the primary platform for development isn't the complexity/quality available, but the size of the consumer base. There's way more console gamers than PC gamers and that's what puts consoles first.

I'm not entirely convinced that PC is the lead platform for most developers, as the next-gen consoles are still using system specific tools for libGCN and direct hardware access. By doing this, consoles can extract more performance that would be possible by using a middleware clunky API such as Direct3D. But despite this fact, it may not matter - the entire process of creating multi platform games is going to be far far easier by virtue of x86.

I agree that installed base (consoles having the highest, obviously) decides the primary platform, but ports will be substantially easier with the next-gen. Even if there are small differences with the consoles not using D3D, the porting process is just less headache now for developers; I think the days of waiting 2-3 months for PC ports (such as GTA IV) are done. PC should get substantially higher quality games in any case. I can't wait to see what the initial roll out of games will be like, already many games such as Titan's Fall and Watch Dogs look pretty darn impressive. Should be a great holiday season for PC gamers.
 

futurefields

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Jun 2, 2012
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It doesn't matter. The point is that Ubisoft, and all the other major developers are prioritizing PC and next gen console development over last gen consoles.

Making the PC the lead platform, and extolling the features and enhancements of the next gen platforms while basically putting the Xbox 360 and PS3 on ignore :biggrin:

No. The games are being designed to run on 512mb consoles which means the core game mechanics and world design is still based on last gen technology. PC's and next-gen consoles will get higher resolutions, better textures, and better graphics. But the world mechanics will be the same.

Only games that are PS4, XBone, PC only can be truly considered next-gen because only then will they be able to design the actual mechanics of the gameplay and world design to take advantage of next-gen specs.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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Even though I've most of then when they went dirt cheap at steam, haven't touched the AC series yet.
 

cbrunny

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Oct 12, 2007
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I believe that some of the story that revolved around "the white man burned the red man's villages and stole land." was very poorly received. It was like they treated the player as an idiot and had to hand feed you the idea that "british = templar & colonist = assassin" and the whole "I...am your father" thing was very lame. The gameplay, boring as always. You could literally just parry and instakill and then move to the next. Not even a challenge. Then the whole convoluted thing with Desmond and Minerva is ridiculous. Shield the earth from cosmic radiation? I expected something a little bit more impactful.

For me the draw of the Assassin's Creed games was building an old city in the games with all the old cathedrals and architecture with backstory on each. That was gone with a move to New York and Boston IMO

Sounds to me like if you had your way you'd just replay AC2 over and over again. Sounds like fun........................
 

Carfax83

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Nov 1, 2010
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Prior to the 360 and PS3, porting games was harder, in fact "porting" isn't something that even really occurs any more, all the major game engines allow for parallel development on both platforms.

This is a point that I made earlier. The way engines are designed these days, you can optimize for every platform you develop for without harming the development of another.

This is actually the issue, not the solution. The easier it gets to write one code base for multiple platforms the more code and assets they'll share, and so the lowest common denominator decides the quality for all platforms.

But not if the PC is the lead platform. If the PC is the lead platform, then all assets will be designed primarily for the PC, and then scaled down for the consoles.

There's no incentive to develop primarily for the Xbox 360 and PS3 anymore, because doing so would reduce the increase in graphical fidelity, immersion and seamlessness that gamers are EXPECTING to find when gaming on their new PS4 and Xbox One compared to the previous generation of consoles..

For example, it's already been confirmed that the PS4 version of Watch Dogs will have physics effects, weather effects and higher population density that won't be found on the Xbox 360 or PS3.

So the solution is, develop for PC first, then down scale accordingly.
 
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Carfax83

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Surprised this hasn't devolved into a complaint fest about uplay! (By the way, uplay has improved substantially and I consider it pretty hassle free just like steam). Anyway, i've been a big fan of what Ubisoft has been doing over the course of the past year - I love all of the AC games, and it looks like their future games will be great as well. Definitely looking forward to both AC4 and Watch Dogs.

So far, I've never had any issues with uplay. The only people that complain about uplay and Origin incessantly are Steam fanboys that believe Valve should be the only digital games supplier.

I'm not entirely convinced that PC is the lead platform for most developers, as the next-gen consoles are still using system specific tools for libGCN and direct hardware access. By doing this, consoles can extract more performance that would be possible by using a middleware clunky API such as Direct3D. But despite this fact, it may not matter - the entire process of creating multi platform games is going to be far far easier by virtue of x86.

Both consoles still use an API I believe, but it's modified to get a lower access to hardware.

I agree that installed base (consoles having the highest, obviously) decides the primary platform, but ports will be substantially easier with the next-gen. Even if there are small differences with the consoles not using D3D, the porting process is just less headache now for developers; I think the days of waiting 2-3 months for PC ports (such as GTA IV) are done. PC should get substantially higher quality games in any case. I can't wait to see what the initial roll out of games will be like, already many games such as Titan's Fall and Watch Dogs look pretty darn impressive. Should be a great holiday season for PC gamers.

Like PrincessFrosty said, all the new major 3D engines are inherently designed to be scalable for different platforms, so porting isn't really the issue.

The issue is sharing game assets between platforms. And that's where things are changing, because with the release of the new generation of consoles, developers no longer have a financial incentive to develop for the lowest common denominator first.

It now makes better financial sense to develop from the top down, which means the PC will be the lead platform.

Can you imagine the flak they would get if they used the same textures, models, map sizes, AI routines etcetera in the PS4 or Xbox One titles that they used in the Xbox 360 and PS3?
 

Carfax83

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No. The games are being designed to run on 512mb consoles which means the core game mechanics and world design is still based on last gen technology. PC's and next-gen consoles will get higher resolutions, better textures, and better graphics. But the world mechanics will be the same.

Not necessarily. If the game engine is as scalable as we've been led to believe, then it's quite possible that the World design won't be affected by the much lower memory capacity of the last generation of consoles.

Basically, the Xbox 360 and PS3 would have lots of loading screens for transition from one area to the next, while the next gen consoles and the PC would have a lot less, or even none at all.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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Sounds to me like if you had your way you'd just replay AC2 over and over again. Sounds like fun........................

No, don't be naive. The team working on Assassin's Creed lost their way and are content to recycle the battles over and over while spoon feeding their intended audience with childish villans and ridiculous stories that go nowhere.

There is a reason review scores were lower and lower with each release after AC2
 
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blackened23

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Guess you can't please everyone. I really loved all of the AC games except AC1. Brotherhood was probably my favorite.

I think overall it is a problem with mini-sequels, you want to stay true to the feel of the original while simultaneously throwing in new elements. Ubisoft did that with every successive AC game - some folks will say "more of the same" but to me that isn't an issue. More of the same can be a good thing if the original was good - Ubi also interjected enough new elements and storyline twists to keep things interesting for me, although I see how sequel-itis may turn off some players. Personally it has never been an issue for me - I felt the same about the dead space games. Loved all three games, fantastic series IMO. I just replayed Dead Space 2 a couple of weeks ago and completely enjoyed it (again).

On the other hand, I wish "more of the same" had applied to Dragon Age 2. Instead, bioware veered off course and totally botched the story and everything else about the game that made the original Dragon Age: Origins so great; I guess that is where trying to do something new and fresh definitely doesn't pay off with a sequel. Although the biggest problem with DA2 was the fact that the entire game was in the same city with horrible boring quests, and all of the dungeons and enemies were re-hashed over and over (due to the game being rushed).

Anyway, I liked them (AC series), but gaming tastes are of course very subjective. I'm a bit of a history buff as well so the setting of the AC games naturally draw me in as well, I suppose.....
 
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PrincessFrosty

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This is a point that I made earlier. The way engines are designed these days, you can optimize for every platform you develop for without harming the development of another.

Sure, but optimization is rarely the issue here.

The issue is the fidelity of the simulation, art assets and the technology used to produce both. I don't care about getting 3% more perofrmance because the game is "optimized" vs "unoptimised", I care about getting lumped with shitty 512x512 textures when our PCs can handle up to 4096x4096

The issue stems from hardware disparity, at the launch of a console the difference is small but after only a few years the PC is way ahead in the lead and accelerating at an exponential rate to the point that in the 7-8 year life span they end up 20x more powerful, or more.

Having 1 engine run on all platforms encourages developers to save money and simply write 1 game for all platforms, but then the PC inherits the constraints of a console because the games are written to fit inside the tight constraints of console hardware.

It's precisely why I said that multi-platform engines and multi-platform development was the CAUSE of the issue, and not the solution.

The older ports have a greater chance of being more tailored for the PC. I'll give you an example. Say devs port parts of the engine from a console game to the PC, and they have to re-factor the aiming code...are they going to write the same console system for the PC that's based off the assumption of using analogue sticks? No probably not. They're going to say "while we have to re-write this code we might as well write it based off the asumption they're using a mouse".

It was only since the invention of multi-platform engines that we saw the really fucking anoying trend of having mouse acceleration in games, quite often FORCED on with no way to disable it. This was never an issue in the past (outside of windows OS applying acceleration) but because console games need heavy acceleration due to analogue sticks as a control method the PC gets the same thing, despite it causing a headache or near unplayable games for a large number of PC gamers.

And turning off acceleration is SIMPLE, it's not even hard coded into the engine most of the time, it's an option, because to add acceleration first you need to read the input in a raw format anyway, so you have to go out of your way and write additional code to add acceleration.

This all points to one very grave conclusion, the easier it is you make it to write the game for multiple platforms in parallel, the more features they'll share, AND WE DON'T WANT THAT, we don't want to share console features because they're crap, unnecessary and more often than not actually detrimental to gameplay.

(and as a side note I find it deeply amusing that modern games sometimes add a "use raw mouse input" option in the menu, we've gone from using raw input as default, to forcing acceleration on us, and fixing the problem is allowing us to untick that option, rather than it simply being off by default and an option to enable mouse acceleration, this speaks PERFECTLY to how the entire situation has been flipped)

But not if the PC is the lead platform. If the PC is the lead platform, then all assets will be designed primarily for the PC, and then scaled down for the consoles.

There's no incentive to develop primarily for the Xbox 360 and PS3 anymore, because doing so would reduce the increase in graphical fidelity, immersion and seamlessness that gamers are EXPECTING to find when gaming on their new PS4 and Xbox One compared to the previous generation of consoles..

For example, it's already been confirmed that the PS4 version of Watch Dogs will have physics effects, weather effects and higher population density that won't be found on the Xbox 360 or PS3.

So the solution is, develop for PC first, then down scale accordingly.

It's a nice idea and when multi-platform started to become popular I was very vocal about encouraging developers to do this, but after years of repeatedly asking for it, I gave up.

As it stands the mentality is that they target the biggest platform for primary developmet, they make a highly tailored game for that platform and net the biggest percentage of users there, after that whether or not the PC gamers are angry because they have forced mouse acceleration and 25 degree FOVs, well who cares? It's a fraction of the install base and whoever they lose on the PC side of things they'll probably gain ten fold by focusing those resources on making their console version super tailored for consoles.

Also there's the added problem that some things just don't scale well, some things scale VERY well, textures for example. Make an 8kx8k source texture, saving 4k by 4k variants for PC and 1kx1k variants for consoles takes 3 seconds.

But down-scaling something important to game play, for example aspects of the AI, or the core game logic, the non-graphical physics etc...these things scale badly. We can't scale AI and keep the same fundamental game in tact like we can textures. It's harder to scale geometry down without heavily relying on dynamic geometry like tessellation.

Like PrincessFrosty said, all the new major 3D engines are inherently designed to be scalable for different platforms, so porting isn't really the issue.

The issue is sharing game assets between platforms. And that's where things are changing, because with the release of the new generation of consoles, developers no longer have a financial incentive to develop for the lowest common denominator first.

It now makes better financial sense to develop from the top down, which means the PC will be the lead platform.

Can you imagine the flak they would get if they used the same textures, models, map sizes, AI routines etcetera in the PS4 or Xbox One titles that they used in the Xbox 360 and PS3?

You're exactly right, when it comes to graphical fidelity sharing art assets is a huge problem.

But this is a cyclical problem because PC hardware evolves quickly in lots of small steps, where as consoles stagnate for 7-8 years. The new release of consoles will quickly dwarf the old ones, we'll see pretty fast abandonment of the old consoles in favour of the new ones, and the new consoles likely having a huge install base will simply become the primary development platform instead.

I really, REALLY genuinely hope we eventually see a move towards the PC being the primary development platform and everything else being a spin off, neutered to the appropriate level.

But I don't realistically expect this to happen, there's too many factors working against this model, some of which I've not even touched on here.