UAW response to bailout

[Puffnstuff]

http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

 

[Atreus21]

I'm beginning to agree.

 

[cubby1223]

The UAW has a direct power in our federal government through the Democratic Pary. How else can this be analyzed as?

"bipartisan legislation" - what a crock. :roll:

 

[miketheidiot]

i would say that legislating price ceiling on labor is certainly unjust, at this point congresses actions are nothing more than an attempt at union busting

I mean its not like the uaw hasn't already made enormous givebacks.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
The UAW has a direct power in our federal government through the Democratic Pary. How else can this be analyzed as?

"bipartisan legislation" - what a crock. :roll:

Yea except it was Bush (Republican) that made this happen. :roll:

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: boomerang
So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

I wouldn't be subsidizing unskilled laborers to make a lot of product that no one wants to buy. It's unsustainable, to say the least. If they need to build something to keep food on the table, then they should be building railroads or something that people might actually want and use. Instead, they're producing essentially worthless perishable goods. And I'm paying for it.

 

[alien42]

i came across this article from January 2008 last night and it's an interesting read considering where the industry is today. i am not a big fan of modern unions however i will recognize that they they were making progress before this economic crisis began, as was management.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

They'll get it as unions continue to die and screw up industries along the way.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

 

[Kwatt]

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

I am curious if this.

"All stakeholders -- management, directors, bondholders, suppliers, dealers, workers -- will have to participate in shared sacrifices to help the industry move forward,"

Is the problem some people are having difficulty with ?
And if so, Why? Are the UAW members responsible for all the problems?

Some people are claiming the Big 3 are making vehicles no one wants and of poor quality.

I don't think the UAW are designing the cars,trucks,SUV's....

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i would say that legislating price ceiling on labor is certainly unjust, at this point congresses actions are nothing more than an attempt at union busting

I mean its not like the uaw hasn't already made enormous givebacks.

The Workers are the only ones who have been making sacrifices the last few Decades. It seems to me they've already contributed.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: cubby1223
The UAW has a direct power in our federal government through the Democratic Pary. How else can this be analyzed as?

"bipartisan legislation" - what a crock. :roll:

Yea except it was Bush (Republican) that made this happen. :roll:

(1) Bush has turned into a Democrat. On the whole, Republicans were against & blocked the bill in the Senate
(2) it is Bush's additional conditions the UAW are protesting as unfair.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: boomerang
So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

I wouldn't be subsidizing unskilled laborers to make a lot of product that no one wants to buy. It's unsustainable, to say the least. If they need to build something to keep food on the table, then they should be building railroads or something that people might actually want and use. Instead, they're producing essentially worthless perishable goods. And I'm paying for it.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

I've read that labor is 10% of the cost of a car. So if the union was busted the price of cars would drop what, 10%?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

I've read that labor is 10% of the cost of a car. So if the union was busted the price of cars would drop what, 10%?

Less than that, probably 2-3%.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i would say that legislating price ceiling on labor is certainly unjust, at this point congresses actions are nothing more than an attempt at union busting

I mean its not like the uaw hasn't already made enormous givebacks.

Here's my view - if you don't want to abide by governmental legislation, then don't accept their money. But if you do accept government money, then you damn well do what they ask.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

actually they have similar expenses, ie within a few hundred dollars, bu tthe charge about 2500 less for an equivalent model.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

I've read that labor is 10% of the cost of a car. So if the union was busted the price of cars would drop what, 10%?

Less than that, probably 2-3%.

Gee, doesn't sound like much of a savings. Actually 10% doesn't either. I'm wondering if it's really worth it to try and bust the unions.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

I've read that labor is 10% of the cost of a car. So if the union was busted the price of cars would drop what, 10%?

the total costs of labor are 10% of the cost of the car, so if they manage to drop the unions wages 10% (which is the difference between the big3 and jap3+kia), the overall costs of building a car will drop 1%

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: Puffnstuff
http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_19_08auto1.cfm

They want everybody but themselve to change. I say the fed should force the big 3 into bankruptcy and break them.

So the net result would then be what? A better life for all? A return to the land of milk and honey?

What rewards would the average American gain in such a situation? What benefits would we reap from breaking the union?

I hear this a lot and I'm curious how we'd benefit from it.

The Big 3 can't make cars as cheap as their japanese counterparts. They may sell plenty of cars but if they do not make money on them.. look what happens. As long as the union is intact nothing will change. The bailout will only delay the inevitable.

I've read that labor is 10% of the cost of a car. So if the union was busted the price of cars would drop what, 10%?

Less than that, probably 2-3%.

Gee, doesn't sound like much of a savings. Actually 10% doesn't either. I'm wondering if it's really worth it to try and bust the unions.

Only for the Ideologues.

 

[DealMonkey]

So what about this claim?

The UAW, Gettelfinger said, is reviewing the documents released today. "All stakeholders -- management, directors, bondholders, suppliers, dealers, workers -- will have to participate in shared sacrifices to help the industry move forward," he said, noting that UAW members have already made substantial sacrifices to help make the domestic auto companies more competitive.

So what's wrong with the UAW suggesting that EVERYONE involved sacrifice? Seems like some in this thread, the OP included, seem to pin all of the problems on the workers. That's patently unfair. Like any situation, there's usually enough blame to go around.

The UAW also claims they've already made substantial sacrifices. Is this true? If so, where does shit like this: "They want everybody but themselve to change..." as posted by PuffnStuff come from exactly? WTF OP? WTF?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i would say that legislating price ceiling on labor is certainly unjust, at this point congresses actions are nothing more than an attempt at union busting

I mean its not like the uaw hasn't already made enormous givebacks.

Here's my view - if you don't want to abide by governmental legislation, then don't accept their money. But if you do accept government money, then you damn well do what they ask.

what the hell are you talking about? Unjust legislation is unjust, regardless.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Gee, doesn't sound like much of a savings. Actually 10% doesn't either. I'm wondering if it's really worth it to try and bust the unions.

I'd have to google the numbers though I believe it's $2k-$3k difference in union benefits for each GM vehicle sold than each Toyota vehicle sold.

Look, the U.S. auto industry has troubles across the board. Union contracts are just one part of it.

But do the math, 10 million vehicles sold, $3k per, that's $30b dollars.

Breaking those union benefits goes a long way to making the auto industry viable again.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i would say that legislating price ceiling on labor is certainly unjust, at this point congresses actions are nothing more than an attempt at union busting

I mean its not like the uaw hasn't already made enormous givebacks.

Here's my view - if you don't want to abide by governmental legislation, then don't accept their money. But if you do accept government money, then you damn well do what they ask.

what the hell are you talking about? Unjust legislation is unjust, regardless.

Right.

If they feel the legislation is unjust then what they need to do is oppose this bailout. That is their right to do so.