UAW President says no more concessions

[venkman]

Link

UAW leader says no more concessions
by Mark Williams | The Associated Press
Saturday November 15, 2008, 1:28 PM

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Even as Detroit's Big Three teeter on collapse, United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger said Saturday that workers will not make any more concessions and that getting the automakers back on their feet means figuring out a way to turn around the slumping economy.

"The focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract," Gettelfinger told reporters on a conference call, noting the labor costs now make up 8 percent to 10 percent of the cost of a vehicle.

"We have made dramatic, dramatic changes and the UAW was applauded for that," he said.

Instead, Gettelfinger blamed the problems the auto industry is suffering from on things beyond its control -- the housing slump, the credit crunch that has made financing a vehicle tough and the 1.2 million jobs that have been lost in the past year.

"We're here not because of what the auto industry has done," he said. "We're here because of what has happened to the economy.

Gettelfinger also called on Congress to act quickly on a bailout plan for the auto industry, saying action is necessary before President-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.

He said if one automaker were to file for bankruptcy, the others may follow. He said the automakers would find it difficult to restructure under bankruptcy laws and instead could end up out of business. "Would you buy a car from a bankrupt automaker?" he asked.

The Center for Automotive Research, which receives funding from the auto industry, has warned that the collapse of the Big Three could set off a catastrophic chain reaction in the economy, eliminating up to 3 million jobs and more than $150 billion in tax revenue over the next three years.

Gettelfinger called on Congress to act quickly to provide loans to help the automakers until the economy improves and the automakers can move ahead with their plans to become more competitive.

"We cannot afford to allow to see this industry collapse. There is a real concern that could happen."

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC are seeking $25 billion from the government to get them through the economic crisis and the worst sales slump in more than 25 years. GM appears to be in the worst shape, warning that it can't borrow from normal sources.

The nation's largest automaker said it had $16.2 billion in cash at the end of September, raising the possibility that GM will fall below the minimum of $11 billion to $14 billion needed for day-to-day operations by the end of the year.

Democrats in the lame-duck Congress are pressing for a bailout of Detroit's Big Three with money from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue package. But President George W. Bush and many Republicans have come out against the idea, arguing that the financial rescue package was not intended for such uses, and that a bailout would reward poor management and lead other industries to demand government handouts.

Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

 

[chucky2]

The UAW already did make major concessions. Starting UAW employees are down to a $14 starting wage - that's less than $30k a year for a job you're expected to perform perfectly each time, in tough conditions, in a constantly repetitive manner.

Go turn the heat lamp on in your bathroom, leave the door open, and then do the same exact series of motions, lasting around 50 seconds each time, for 8 hours straight...you get a 17 minute break, then a 30 minute break, then a 15 minute break in those 8 hours - that's it. Now do that for a few weeks straight and you'll have some concept of what it's like working on an assembly line in the summer.

The UAW here is working with the Big 3 to leverage pressure against DC to get some more $$$...and sending a message the UAW contract well has run dry.

Chuck

 

[frostedflakes]

Yup, to be fair, a lot of sacrifices have been made.

Although I don't really have a lot of sympathy chucky. All line work is repetitive and fatiguing, but I doubt many line workers in other industries get the wages and benefits UAW employees do, even after all the compromises that have been made recently.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already did make major concessions. Starting UAW employees are down to a $14 starting wage - that's less than $30k a year for a job you're expected to perform perfectly each time, in tough conditions, in a constantly repetitive manner.

Go turn the heat lamp on in your bathroom, leave the door open, and then do the same exact series of motions, lasting around 50 seconds each time, for 8 hours straight...you get a 17 minute break, then a 30 minute break, then a 15 minute break in those 8 hours - that's it. Now do that for a few weeks straight and you'll have some concept of what it's like working on an assembly line in the summer.

The UAW here is working with the Big 3 to leverage pressure against DC to get some more $$$...and sending a message the UAW contract well has run dry.

Chuck

OF course it would be easier to allow GM to automate those repetitive jobs. But that is difficult to do, since those that are layed off would wind up in the jobs bank with 95% pay.


UAW still has room to give back.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: venkman

UAW President says no more concessions

He can say whatever he wants, the UAW has absolutely no power here to influence the outcome in their direction and will be lucky to keep a fraction of what they have now. The alternative to more "concessions" is mass unemployment for UAW members.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

 

[trenchfoot]

Let's see....the workers on the floor should bear the brunt of the cutbacks in pay, benefits and personnel, while management, whose decisions led these auto makers to push gas guzzling SUV's and trucks in a time of high energy costs, and who are ultimately responsible for being competitive in the areas of automobile desireability, quality, reliability, re-salability and customer support satisfaction should not suffer one iota toward making the necessary sacrifices equivalent to the loss in profits, reputation and product demand they are the direct cause of?

If I thought that American-built cars were of higher build quality, better fuel economy, higher performance per $$ spent, better design, longer lasting, had better resale value and had the reputation for building the most desired cars of all the manufacturers, I'd certainly pay the extra $$ it would take to own a few.

But sadly, that is clearly not the case. Now, is it the guys who work on the assembly lines who are responsible for designing, marketing and deciding what would fill the desires of the consumers? Is it the guys on the assembly lines who are responsible for creating and maintaining a solid reputation for manufacturing the best auto's, SUV's and trucks with the best bang for the buck value? Because this is where the essential problems lie, and it falls directly on the sholders of management to take care of those requirements, not on the skilled workers who build those vehicles as advised and directed by management.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

i've heard this before, link?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
Let's see....the workers on the floor should bear the brunt of the cutbacks in pay, benefits and personnel, while management, whose decisions led these auto makers to push gas guzzling SUV's and trucks in a time of high energy costs, and who are ultimately responsible for being competitive in the areas of automobile desireability, quality, reliability, re-salability and customer support satisfaction should not suffer one iota toward making the necessary sacrifices equivalent to the loss in profits, reputation and product demand they are the direct cause of?

If I thought that American-built cars were of higher build quality, better fuel economy, higher performance per $$ spent, better design, longer lasting, had better resale value and had the reputation for building the most desired cars of all the manufacturers, I'd certainly pay the extra $$ it would take to own a few.

But sadly, that is clearly not the case. Now, is it the guys who work on the assembly lines who are responsible for designing, marketing and deciding what would fill the desires of the consumers? Is it the guys on the assembly lines who are responsible for creating and maintaining a solid reputation for manufacturing the best auto's, SUV's and trucks with the best bang for the buck value? Because this is where the essential problems lie, and it falls directly on the sholders of management to take care of those requirements, not on the skilled workers who build those vehicles as advised and directed by management.

If labor ran up the cost of doing business, which caused quality to suffer then yes they share blame. Labor is not the cause of all of GM problems, but they are not without blame either.

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
Let's see....the workers on the floor should bear the brunt of the cutbacks in pay, benefits and personnel, while management, whose decisions led these auto makers to push gas guzzling SUV's and trucks in a time of high energy costs, and who are ultimately responsible for being competitive in the areas of automobile desireability, quality, reliability, re-salability and customer support satisfaction should not suffer one iota toward making the necessary sacrifices equivalent to the loss in profits, reputation and product demand they are the direct cause of?

If I thought that American-built cars were of higher build quality, better fuel economy, higher performance per $$ spent, better design, longer lasting, had better resale value and had the reputation for building the most desired cars of all the manufacturers, I'd certainly pay the extra $$ it would take to own a few.

But sadly, that is clearly not the case. Now, is it the guys who work on the assembly lines who are responsible for designing, marketing and deciding what would fill the desires of the consumers? Is it the guys on the assembly lines who are responsible for creating and maintaining a solid reputation for manufacturing the best auto's, SUV's and trucks with the best bang for the buck value? Because this is where the essential problems lie, and it falls directly on the sholders of management to take care of those requirements, not on the skilled workers who build those vehicles as advised and directed by management.

You really don't get it, do you? In a very short amount of time, both workers and management will be lucky to have a job at all, at any rate of pay or benefits. Both sides will "bear the brunt" once your rate of pay reaches zero.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

i've heard this before, link?

I dont have a link, but I remember reading that small cars only added a few hundred in profits, whereas the bigger vehicles added several thousand.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

i've heard this before, link?

I dont have a link, but I remember reading that small cars only added a few hundred in profits, whereas the bigger vehicles added several thousand.

what did union rules have to do with that?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

i've heard this before, link?

I dont have a link, but I remember reading that small cars only added a few hundred in profits, whereas the bigger vehicles added several thousand.

what did union rules have to do with that?

High cost of labor reducing or eliminating any chance of making money on small(er) cars.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And at the same time, union rules made if difficult to produce small cars and make a profit. Call it a suicide pact...

i've heard this before, link?

I dont have a link, but I remember reading that small cars only added a few hundred in profits, whereas the bigger vehicles added several thousand.

what did union rules have to do with that?

High cost of labor reducing or eliminating any chance of making money on small(er) cars.

profit would have been greater on the bigger cars anyways, so they woudl have made them anyways. sounds pretty stupid to me.

iirc, labor costs aren't very high relative to total production.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

I would guess UAW is playing chicken with the government bailout?

Just follow the money. Should my tax dollars be paying for UAW health care? Should my tax dollars go towards the $17 million of Viagra that is purchased annually through GM's health care program? Or should my money go towards my own Viagra?

That's my take on the issue.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

I would guess UAW is playing chicken with the government bailout?

Just follow the money. Should my tax dollars be paying for UAW health care? Should my tax dollars go towards the $17 million of Viagra that is purchased annually through GM's health care program? Or should my money go towards my own Viagra?

That's my take on the issue.

Sucks to be you.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

I would guess UAW is playing chicken with the government bailout?

Just follow the money. Should my tax dollars be paying for UAW health care? Should my tax dollars go towards the $17 million of Viagra that is purchased annually through GM's health care program? Or should my money go towards my own Viagra?

That's my take on the issue.

Sucks to be you.

Well, if the Viagra is working, he's not the only one who's sucking now, right?

 

[AnnonUSA]

So soon it will be the Tax payers that have to satisfy the UAW's demands. Pelosi and friends will throw taxpayer money at the problem while mandating very few changes or oversights.

Shit flows downhill. When corporate heads demand giant paychecks, and golden parachutes, Workers are looking for a good deal. As far as the work being too tough for the salary, I'm sure if allowed, GM could hire non union people for less and less benefits, people that have been unemployed for a while. Would production quality go down? That would be the biggest question. But since the big three American automakers don't seem to have very high ratings in quality now, where is the downside.

Unions, like Stock holders wield much too much power over the industries and corporations they are supposed to be partnering with. To revive the economy, there are going to have to be major changes at all levels, for everyone. Washington's Print and throw money approach will solve nothing long term.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: AnnonUSA
So soon it will be the Tax payers that have to satisfy the UAW's demands. Pelosi and friends will throw taxpayer money at the problem while mandating very few changes or oversights.

Shit flows downhill. When corporate heads demand giant paychecks, and golden parachutes, Workers are looking for a good deal. As far as the work being too tough for the salary, I'm sure if allowed, GM could hire non union people for less and less benefits, people that have been unemployed for a while. Would production quality go down? That would be the biggest question. But since the big three American automakers don't seem to have very high ratings in quality now, where is the downside.

Unions, like Stock holders wield much too much power over the industries and corporations they are supposed to be partnering with. To revive the economy, there are going to have to be major changes at all levels, for everyone. Washington's Print and throw money approach will solve nothing long term.

Stockholders are the owners of the company, not partners. Saying they have too much power is like saying voters have too much control over the government.

BTW an objective analysis would conclude stockholders have too little control, not too much. Entrenched management has too much control as a result of easy going corporate statutes. The result is golden parachutes and the like.

I hope Obama doesn't fall into the same old what is good for the unions is good for the Dems trap. This union leader doesn't have a clue. I'm very much aware of the perils of letting the big three fail, but if failure is necessary to break the current cycle of absurd legacy costs, so be it. Even now these blue collar assembly line workers make as much or more than many professionals. The main problem is the costs of their health care and retirement systems-they are way, way out of sync with the rest of America.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: chucky2
The UAW already did make major concessions. Starting UAW employees are down to a $14 starting wage - that's less than $30k a year for a job you're expected to perform perfectly each time, in tough conditions, in a constantly repetitive manner.

Go turn the heat lamp on in your bathroom, leave the door open, and then do the same exact series of motions, lasting around 50 seconds each time, for 8 hours straight...you get a 17 minute break, then a 30 minute break, then a 15 minute break in those 8 hours - that's it. Now do that for a few weeks straight and you'll have some concept of what it's like working on an assembly line in the summer.

The UAW here is working with the Big 3 to leverage pressure against DC to get some more $$$...and sending a message the UAW contract well has run dry.

Chuck

It's not that bad. I worked the A & B line jungle at Fisher Body, Lansing MI right out of high school in '73 until the early '74 layoffs. I did five sets of spot welds of the passenger firewall to the body pan, firewall to post, and post to roof. The post welds had to meet NVSS spec, so they were worth another nickle a car for me.

The A line (Olds 88s, 98s, and Custom Cruisers moved at 43 units an hour, the B line (Cutlass, Cutlass Wagons) moved at 53 units an hour.

It wasn't that hot, even through the summer. We all had radios wired to an antenna and power by the electricians (for $20.00) so we had tunes.

If you timed it right, You could do three cars and wait long enough to read a paperback page and sit down while listening to your tunes.

The non-overtime day is split in half by 30 minute lunch, each lunch is split by a 15 minute "wagon" (food cart / mini roach coach) the line stops for both of those. Each wagon period is split by a 10 minute break, where a relief guy takes your job for the ten minutes (the line doesn't stop). You can also request relief for "emergencies"

With rare exception, we worked 9.3, or (most often) 10.2 hours for which we were paid overtime beyond eight hours.

If it wasn't for the layoffs (thank Gawd for the layoffs) I'd probably have done twenty or thirty years there. I went into the Navy, got out of the Navy, and started unionless work where I could advance my position based on something other than how much time I spent at the job.

Other than the Trades (Plumber, Carpenters, etc), unions are a drag on the business and the economy. They protect the slugs, and promote processes that guarantee the slowest, least efficient way of performing work so that it takes more man-hours to complete the process.

I'm sure that ergonomics and conditions have improved somewhat since 1973-74. They weren't that bad then, they're much better now.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: venkman
Honestly, in a climate like this, is making these kinds of comments in the best interest of the UAW? If they want to survive, and I don't think they will, they need to make MAJOR concessions, otherwise they will lose EVERYTHING when the big three goes bankrupt.

When the UAW went on strike a year ago against American Axle (a GM Supplier), I wondered what stopped GM from just contracting out the part to Mexico or China and just be done with these guys. I believe the answer will be "nothing" pretty soon.

Of course nothing is ever management's fault.

The UAW workers decided on their own to keep making 20 foot long behemoth gas sucking monsters.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, they did, when they decided to stay at a job that made 20 foot long gas-sucking behemoths.

Participation is tacit approval of the process.

 

[nobodyknows]

Instead, Gettelfinger blamed the problems the auto industry is suffering from on things beyond its control -- the housing slump, the credit crunch that has made financing a vehicle tough and the 1.2 million jobs that have been lost in the past year.

Welcome to the reality the rest of have to deal with Mr. Gettelfinger.

I think both the union AND management need to take some cuts in pay.. As taxpayers we should insist on it.... that is if they want taxpayer help.

 

[nobodyknows]

One more thing, shouldn't the union vote on it instead of having Gettelfinger decide it for them?

 

[alphatarget1]

GM should declare bankcruptcy reorganization, dissolve all existing labor contracts, be taken over to the government, sold to foreign companies like Honda, and bring in non-unionized workers to do the work.

Fvck the UAW.