uATX: DS2R or P5K-VM?

[imported_qwester]

I spent a few days researching my next build and reached the last point of finalizing the essential motherboard choice, and I cannot choose one or the other.

First, what I am building and what for: I want to build an SFF based on the X-QPack2, mainly to conserve space. This is not a gaming PC, I'll use it for internet and MS Office, but the main reason for a new PC is I need to run computational models that are very CPU intensive.
I plan on getting an E6750 (best speed to price ratio) + 2x1GB DDR2-800 (sticking with Win XP for now) + for now I'll use the built in GFX but will be soon looking into getting a low heat dissipating dedicated card to have DVI output for the NEC 20WMGX2 that I'm getting and to lower the load on the northbridge in the hopes of overclocking. Concerning OC I'm not expecting miracles considering the tight space and limited ventilation (especially with stock cooling), but I hope to get it up to 3GHz and anything above will be a plus.

The main question: After reading reviews and user reviews I managed to narrow it down to these 2 motherboard options, but I couldn't make up my mind on either one. (I noticed both are the top 2 recommendations for uATX on these forums, I guess I did research well ) Both have all I need (I don't need to have the ICH9R), I like that the DS2R comes with an eSATA bracket for my external SATA HDD, but I can easily get one for the P5K-VM for a few $. And the price margin isn't that great to go with the cheaper. I guess what I REALLY care about and couldn't figure out from my research is the following:
1- Which is more reliable and stable? I don't want it crashing on me in the middle of my CPU intensive simulations!
2- Which has the least compatibility issues? I don't want to spend hours and days configuring and reconfiguring ... I'm hoping that this will be an easy build after my decent research.
3- Finally which will maintain the above after my moderate overclock?


A couple of related question but a bit off topic.
A- I noticed that the 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 are quite popular and have good reviews. Are those the best and most trouble free choices with either of these motherboards? (They are listed as supported RAM by both Gigabyte and Asus)
The Ballistix are slightly more expensive than comparable RAMs, but at $71 AR they still look like a good deal to me!

B- Will a PSU with a not so great signal mess up things? I?m not quite sure if I should order a replacement PSU instead of the one bundled with the X-QPack2 right away, or give it a try first. What do you think?


Thank you for any help and reading thru my lengthy 1st post

 

[imported_qwester]

Oops I remembered something I forgot to ask:
Looking thru the manuals, I noticed that both boards support RAM voltages up to 2.1V, but a number of RAMs are listed as 2.2V, including the Crucial Ballistix.
Am I missing something !?!

 

[Zap]

Welcome to the forums, qwester.

Are you going to be overclocking?

Regarding RAM, it is possible to buy DDR2-800 that runs at 1.8-2.0v, so look for that. If you are not overclocking (or by that much) I'd say go for any cheap RAM that runs near default voltage as the money would be better spent elsewhere.

 

[lopri]

This might not the answer you're seeking, but: Have you considered one of the Shuttle's offerings?

 

[imported_qwester]

Zap: as I mentioned above, I would like to get my E6750 to about 3GHz and anything above is a plus. I don't expect too much with the limited space/cooling, especially that I would like to keep it stable while running CPU intensive models for long times.
Concerning the RAMs, looking at Newegg, DDR2 800 2x1GB start at about $50-55 AR, and higher quality RAMs are at about $65-$70 AR, doesn't seem to me like a difference worth sacrificing quality over. Am I right?
And thanx for the welcome

lopri: I'm not a fan of shuttles, more expensive and kind of limited on expansion slots. For now I'm getting an internal WiFi card and dedicated graphics with low heat output. I'd like to keep space for possible future add-ons in case I need any.

 

[gorobei]

Of the two, I'd say the gigabyte has the better chance of overclocking and long term stability due to the solid caps.
If you are really concerned about the ram the you might want to go for 1.8v just to be safe.

Some things of concern:
-You should also indicate what kind of CPU cooling you were planning on doing. Overclocking on stock over 3Ghz will likely be a little noisy.
-If you really are doing cpu intensive stuff, you may want to look at the Q6600.
-going with the IGP to reduce heat for now is a good idea, but IIRC the 965g chipset wouldn't overclock without a discrete Vidcard. Don't know if that's changed with the g33.

good luck

 

[imported_qwester]

Thanks for the reply gorobei. I was tending towards the Gigabyte, the whole package of features seemed just a bit better to me.

- About the RAM, you mean I am better of with something that list 1.8V as the required voltage vs. 2.2V as is the case with the Ballistix? Is that for stability?

- I am going with stock cooling for now because I am not too familiar with the QPack2 case and what might fit in it. If I see the need for something better I'll have to do some research into what will fit in there. But if I get to 3GHz I'll be satisfied (at least for now )

- The stuff I work with isn't optimized for multi cores (yet) so for the near future the more speed the better.

- I will get a discrete video card soon. I just didn't have time to research which will have the least heat output since this is my major concern rather than performance. So once I get the time to do a bit of searching I will get one.

Thanx again

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: gorobei
Of the two, I'd say the gigabyte has the better chance of overclocking and long term stability due to the solid caps.
If you are really concerned about the ram the you might want to go for 1.8v just to be safe.

Some things of concern:
-You should also indicate what kind of CPU cooling you were planning on doing. Overclocking on stock over 3Ghz will likely be a little noisy.
-If you really are doing cpu intensive stuff, you may want to look at the Q6600.
-going with the IGP to reduce heat for now is a good idea, but IIRC the 965g chipset wouldn't overclock without a discrete Vidcard. Don't know if that's changed with the g33.

good luck

Solid caps = BS marketing. Quality Japanese caps from Nippon Chemicon, Panasonic, or Rubycon will easily run 5 years.

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: qwester
I spent a few days researching my next build and reached the last point of finalizing the essential motherboard choice, and I cannot choose one or the other.

First, what I am building and what for: I want to build an SFF based on the X-QPack2, mainly to conserve space. This is not a gaming PC, I'll use it for internet and MS Office, but the main reason for a new PC is I need to run computational models that are very CPU intensive.
I plan on getting an E6750 (best speed to price ratio) + 2x1GB DDR2-800 (sticking with Win XP for now) + for now I'll use the built in GFX but will be soon looking into getting a low heat dissipating dedicated card to have DVI output for the NEC 20WMGX2 that I'm getting and to lower the load on the northbridge in the hopes of overclocking. Concerning OC I'm not expecting miracles considering the tight space and limited ventilation (especially with stock cooling), but I hope to get it up to 3GHz and anything above will be a plus.

The main question: After reading reviews and user reviews I managed to narrow it down to these 2 motherboard options, but I couldn't make up my mind on either one. (I noticed both are the top 2 recommendations for uATX on these forums, I guess I did research well ) Both have all I need (I don't need to have the ICH9R), I like that the DS2R comes with an eSATA bracket for my external SATA HDD, but I can easily get one for the P5K-VM for a few $. And the price margin isn't that great to go with the cheaper. I guess what I REALLY care about and couldn't figure out from my research is the following:
1- Which is more reliable and stable? I don't want it crashing on me in the middle of my CPU intensive simulations!
2- Which has the least compatibility issues? I don't want to spend hours and days configuring and reconfiguring ... I'm hoping that this will be an easy build after my decent research.
3- Finally which will maintain the above after my moderate overclock?


A couple of related question but a bit off topic.
A- I noticed that the 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 are quite popular and have good reviews. Are those the best and most trouble free choices with either of these motherboards? (They are listed as supported RAM by both Gigabyte and Asus)
The Ballistix are slightly more expensive than comparable RAMs, but at $71 AR they still look like a good deal to me!

B- Will a PSU with a not so great signal mess up things? I?m not quite sure if I should order a replacement PSU instead of the one bundled with the X-QPack2 right away, or give it a try first. What do you think?


Thank you for any help and reading thru my lengthy 1st post

Lemme see if I can add anything here to help.

1)Dead heat. Both are made of good quality and are quite stable.
2)The only problem the DS2R has had is 1:1 divider issues early on but that was solved in a bios update. The P5K-VM has been totally problem free as far as I know. Cant remember anything major anyway. Unusual for a mobo to be like that.
3)The DS2R has a little higher fsb OCing numbers (especially important to Q6600 users) but if all you want is 3Ghz out of a 6750 then both will do the job just fine.

A) Ballistix ram works well with both mobos and many prefer it because it uses D9 Micron chips. The Ballistix RAM will work at the lower voltages too. Pvhk and others have proven this.
B) Dont skimp on the psu. The Qpack2 psu is better than the original Qpack psu but its only average in quality. If it were me I'd rip it out and put in a Corsair psu or something like that. But I like high quality components.

Other considerations:
1)DS2R has RAID
2)P5K-VM doesnt have RAID
3)Both onboard sound quality the same but a seperate sound card is better quality and allows for better overclocks.
4)Onboard video: See #3
5)If you are doing any OCing get a seperate aftermarket HSF. Both mobos fit them all. Your SFF case will be the determining factor in HSF size. Not the mobo.

I guess in the end if you still find yourself coming in with a tie then buy the cheapest one as the tie-breaker.

Misc: Why did Skott buy a P5K-VM instead of a DS2R? Because at the time the P5K-VM had no 1:1 issues to worry about and I didnt need RAID.

 

[gorobei]

the 1.8v is so you don't have to take a chance that the ram wont post at anything under 2.2v. the general solutions so far have been to stick one dimm in and hope that the voltage was enough to let you get to post and bios to change the voltage to 2.2(or 2.1); or to have an extra stick of 1.8 that would get you to bios to up the voltage then swap to the 2.2 stuff. Since some people may not have extra ram or ram from extra PCs to use, getting ram that the MB maker's website lists as compatible is generally the safest way to go.

since your programs aren't optimized for multicore, then yeah you're right to go for the higher speed cpu.

as for the solid caps vs electrolytic. Chances are that high quality japanese electrolytics may last as long as the solid. But I would rather have a board that guaranteed use of solid vs a board where the manufacturer can swap in some cheaper non japanese caps later because they didn't specify all solid at the start. (mind you the asus seems to use solid caps as well. but the giga has more mosfets)

There are some features/omissions in the gigabyte bios that I don't care for, and the asus bios looks a bit friendlier. but unless you have a lot of firsthand experience with each, you can only go by reviews and marketing. The gigabyte seems to have higher potential for overclocking but seems to have more issues with memory timings with current bios. The asus seems steadier but less fully featured. It's probably 50/50 either way performance wise.