Thats where you are wrong Bober 
Cut and pasted from the Merck site....
Merck & Co., Inc. is a leading research-driven pharmaceutical products and services company. Merck discovers, develops, manufactures and markets a broad range of innovative products to improve human and animal health. The Merck-Medco Managed Care Division manages pharmacy benefits for more than 40 million Americans, encouraging the appropriate use of medicines and providing disease management programs.
OUR MISSION
The mission of Merck is to provide society with superior products and services -- innovations and solutions that improve the quality of life and satisfy customer needs -- to provide employees with meaningful work and advancement opportunities and investors with a superior rate of return.
OUR VALUES
Our business is preserving and improving human life. All of our actions must be measured by our success in achieving this goal. We value above all our ability to serve everyone who can benefit from the appropriate use of our products and services, thereby providing lasting consumer satisfaction.
We are committed to the highest standards of ethics and integrity. We are responsible to our customers, to Merck employees and their families, to the environments we inhabit, and to the societies we serve worldwide. In discharging our responsibilities, we do not take professional or ethical shortcuts. Our interactions with all segments of society must reflect the high standards we profess.
We are dedicated to the highest level of scientific excellence and commit our research to improving human and animal health and the quality of life. We strive to identify the most critical needs of consumers and customers, we devote our resources to meeting those needs.
We expect profits, but only from work that satisfies customer needs and benefits humanity. Our ability to meet our responsibilities depends on maintaining a financial position that invites investment in leading-edge research and that makes possible effective delivery of research results.
We recognize that the ability to excel -- to most competitively meet society's and customers' needs -- depends on the integrity, knowledge, imagination, skill, diversity and teamwork of employees, and we value these qualities most highly. To this end, we strive to create an environment of mutual respect, encouragement and teamwork -- a working environment that rewards commitment and performance and is responsive to the needs of employees and their families.
You can also pull up their accounting statement and read the "good will" section. Notice how much money they lose just by lending a helping hand. Then notice the profit margin...pretty impressive if you ask me.
Cut and pasted from the Merck site....
Merck & Co., Inc. is a leading research-driven pharmaceutical products and services company. Merck discovers, develops, manufactures and markets a broad range of innovative products to improve human and animal health. The Merck-Medco Managed Care Division manages pharmacy benefits for more than 40 million Americans, encouraging the appropriate use of medicines and providing disease management programs.
OUR MISSION
The mission of Merck is to provide society with superior products and services -- innovations and solutions that improve the quality of life and satisfy customer needs -- to provide employees with meaningful work and advancement opportunities and investors with a superior rate of return.
OUR VALUES
Our business is preserving and improving human life. All of our actions must be measured by our success in achieving this goal. We value above all our ability to serve everyone who can benefit from the appropriate use of our products and services, thereby providing lasting consumer satisfaction.
We are committed to the highest standards of ethics and integrity. We are responsible to our customers, to Merck employees and their families, to the environments we inhabit, and to the societies we serve worldwide. In discharging our responsibilities, we do not take professional or ethical shortcuts. Our interactions with all segments of society must reflect the high standards we profess.
We are dedicated to the highest level of scientific excellence and commit our research to improving human and animal health and the quality of life. We strive to identify the most critical needs of consumers and customers, we devote our resources to meeting those needs.
We expect profits, but only from work that satisfies customer needs and benefits humanity. Our ability to meet our responsibilities depends on maintaining a financial position that invites investment in leading-edge research and that makes possible effective delivery of research results.
We recognize that the ability to excel -- to most competitively meet society's and customers' needs -- depends on the integrity, knowledge, imagination, skill, diversity and teamwork of employees, and we value these qualities most highly. To this end, we strive to create an environment of mutual respect, encouragement and teamwork -- a working environment that rewards commitment and performance and is responsive to the needs of employees and their families.
You can also pull up their accounting statement and read the "good will" section. Notice how much money they lose just by lending a helping hand. Then notice the profit margin...pretty impressive if you ask me.
Oh, here is one more impressive thing that Merck has done...
<< Imagine the discovery of a medicine that could ? with just one annual dose ? treat one of the worst diseases imaginable and prevent blindness.
Imagine more than 25 million people lining up each year to receive the medicine for free.
Imagine defeating a disease that has blinded so many for centuries.
There is such a story.
In October 1995, a seven-foot sculpture named ?The Gift of Sight? was unveiled at Merck?s corporate headquarters in Whitehouse Station, New Jersey. It shows a young boy leading a blind man along a path in an African village ? a once common scene that is disappearing as a result of Merck?s decision to donate Mectizan® wherever needed for as long as needed to control river blindness. The same statue also stands at The Carter Center in Atlanta and at the World Bank in Washington, D.C. >>
<< Imagine the discovery of a medicine that could ? with just one annual dose ? treat one of the worst diseases imaginable and prevent blindness.
Imagine more than 25 million people lining up each year to receive the medicine for free.
Imagine defeating a disease that has blinded so many for centuries.
There is such a story.
In October 1995, a seven-foot sculpture named ?The Gift of Sight? was unveiled at Merck?s corporate headquarters in Whitehouse Station, New Jersey. It shows a young boy leading a blind man along a path in an African village ? a once common scene that is disappearing as a result of Merck?s decision to donate Mectizan® wherever needed for as long as needed to control river blindness. The same statue also stands at The Carter Center in Atlanta and at the World Bank in Washington, D.C. >>
if you want free medicine, live in a country that provides it. It is not unreasonable to expect a company to make money from a product. What is reasonable??? Look at the R&D costs involved with the drugs that make it to market, along with the drugs that don't make but still have all the research and testing done. The US has some of the most stringent testing procedures, making it even more costly to produce drugs. Toss in liability insurance, then try to determine "reasonable profit". If Brazil did bypass the patent rights and are now producing the drug, their only costs are material, packaging and production; these costs are signficantly lower if you are not trying to recover R&D, insurance, overhead, ect.. Is it morally right??? Next time an break-through drug comes up, the company will merely point at Brazil and say "Why should we expend our resources when someone else will steal our product". Without the patent protection you would see many companies fold up or be on the government dole.
I can see why Brazil might do what has been claimed, but I don't agree with it and wouldn't be surprised to see commercial operations become much more protective and restrictive in their marketing and outlay operations.
I can see why Brazil might do what has been claimed, but I don't agree with it and wouldn't be surprised to see commercial operations become much more protective and restrictive in their marketing and outlay operations.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
I don't know how anyone can continue to defend the actions of the drug companies. Yes they want to make money and should be allowed. But they should respond first to the answer of the higher calling and that's to save lives, period. The money will come. I have yet to see a broke doctor or scientist. If the motivation is to make money, then I am scared of those drug companys and doctors. And you should be too.
<< We are talking about lives. Are the drug companies here that freaking money hungry they would let people die, instead of allowing other countries to use patents to make drugs which would help save people. I thought the goal of medicine was to save lives, guess not. How shallow and sad. >>
What more needs to be said? Well, me being me, I will add my two cents.
Aids is a preventable disease, so I do not have alot of sympathy for those that are educated to the vectors for infection. Sadly, many in second and third world nations are not educated to the point that they understand what the hell AIDS is, or how they catch it. So we can't hold ignorance against some ofthese people.
On another point, drug companies have tons of money to hand out copious amounts of freevies to doctors and staff, to but lunch/dinner for these same people. Lots-O-money is also spent on drug company sponsered "seminars" in desirable locations. Bunch-O-scamers, those drug companies are. The arguments for recouping research cost are credible, but they do not substantiate the wholesale rape of US citizens by charging what they do for drugs.
I used to be part of a research team on discovering and developing medicinal drugs. What people forget is it takes years and years of research for these drugs to even get to the hands of pharmaceutical companies for initial trials on animals or even clinical trials. The process can take 10-20+ years for this to happen. With more current technology some of the drug discovery time is cut down, but we are talking about a huge investment in something that might fail, in most cases 90% of the drugs discovered do not come to market due to side reactions or toxicity in the human body.
The US gov't through agencies such as NIH or the military fund a large part of these researches. Pharmaceutical companies tend to let universities or independent researchers do most of the leg work. The marketing and sales of drugs are lucrative, but the process before that is not. What we see a lot of times are pharmaceutical companies swooping in when they see a drug with potential about to become feasible to produce. They pay off the researchers and then gain a patent, or buy the patent, and take credit for the drug. Then when price comes up, they argue about research costs.
Pharmaceutical companies are greedy. They may have mission statements declaring their goal of improving life and humanity, but in essence they are profit based. I can synthesize most of these high dollar medicinal drugs in an organic chem lab at a cheaper cost. Ever seen a pharmaceutical sales representative? They get reimbursed very well, company car, credit card, major lobbying money, and luxuries to convince doctors/patients to use their company's drugs. The costs of these drugs are to milk the market for profits while the patents keep generics away.
Once a blockbuster drug goes off patent, you can see generic drugs come out to the market at a way lesser cost then the brand name.
What Brazil has done may not be legal, but morally and in a sense ethically they are doing what is right for their people. If someone was starving to death and steals for food, he/she is doing that out of necessity not greed. Sure people going hungry can be prevented, but the reality is, they are hungry and will do anything to survive. If you sold food, you wouldn't want these people to do that, and you are not legally obliged to help them. You could argue that people stealing food will take you out of business and you would be in the same boat in the end.
The issue with Brazil vs US Pharma companies is the minor one. The major issue is AIDS; the lives of people involved. We can sit here and debate about the greed of companies or the necessity of having drugs, but the reality of things is people are dying and they are fighting to live. Until you have faced such a reality don't blatantly give out "should have, would have, could have" solutions because they don't make progress.
Brazil has taken action and is facing up to the consequences. Between a choice of saving a life or saving money, life in all cases should be the precendence.
Rhosin Crass
The US gov't through agencies such as NIH or the military fund a large part of these researches. Pharmaceutical companies tend to let universities or independent researchers do most of the leg work. The marketing and sales of drugs are lucrative, but the process before that is not. What we see a lot of times are pharmaceutical companies swooping in when they see a drug with potential about to become feasible to produce. They pay off the researchers and then gain a patent, or buy the patent, and take credit for the drug. Then when price comes up, they argue about research costs.
Pharmaceutical companies are greedy. They may have mission statements declaring their goal of improving life and humanity, but in essence they are profit based. I can synthesize most of these high dollar medicinal drugs in an organic chem lab at a cheaper cost. Ever seen a pharmaceutical sales representative? They get reimbursed very well, company car, credit card, major lobbying money, and luxuries to convince doctors/patients to use their company's drugs. The costs of these drugs are to milk the market for profits while the patents keep generics away.
Once a blockbuster drug goes off patent, you can see generic drugs come out to the market at a way lesser cost then the brand name.
What Brazil has done may not be legal, but morally and in a sense ethically they are doing what is right for their people. If someone was starving to death and steals for food, he/she is doing that out of necessity not greed. Sure people going hungry can be prevented, but the reality is, they are hungry and will do anything to survive. If you sold food, you wouldn't want these people to do that, and you are not legally obliged to help them. You could argue that people stealing food will take you out of business and you would be in the same boat in the end.
The issue with Brazil vs US Pharma companies is the minor one. The major issue is AIDS; the lives of people involved. We can sit here and debate about the greed of companies or the necessity of having drugs, but the reality of things is people are dying and they are fighting to live. Until you have faced such a reality don't blatantly give out "should have, would have, could have" solutions because they don't make progress.
Brazil has taken action and is facing up to the consequences. Between a choice of saving a life or saving money, life in all cases should be the precendence.
Rhosin Crass
xraymongrel - The arguments for recouping research cost are credible, but they do not substantiate the wholesale rape of US citizens by charging what they do for drugs.
You also need to remember that the US is paying for the subsidisation of the rest of the world on these drugs. You can go to Europe and buy a drug that sells for $50 a pill in the US at just a fraction of the cost. Why? Because socialized medicine has dictated what these companies can get for their products. To make the profits they desire, they simply charge whatever they want in the US market and we have to pay it for the sake of capitalism. No other countries around the world stand for this. Only in America.
You also need to remember that the US is paying for the subsidisation of the rest of the world on these drugs. You can go to Europe and buy a drug that sells for $50 a pill in the US at just a fraction of the cost. Why? Because socialized medicine has dictated what these companies can get for their products. To make the profits they desire, they simply charge whatever they want in the US market and we have to pay it for the sake of capitalism. No other countries around the world stand for this. Only in America.
<< But they should respond first to the answer of the higher calling and that's to save lives, period. The money will come. >>
Just like with the CA power crisis. You have to give the power away for cheap now...don't worry, you'll get money later.
<< I did read that, and that's very cool. So why are the people who did that now being called inhuman, money grubbing bastards? >>
I'm not sure which companies are being called that...because I haven't saw a list of all the lab companies complaining about the Aids drug issued by Brazil. However, we all know that 90% of pharmaceutical companies aren't like Merck.
In fact, Mongral is right. They spend so much money on "freebies"...pens, erasers, notepads, post-its, etc. and that money could go to a fund to help unprivileged individuals obtain the medications they need.
Fun to see all the whiney little rich kids bitching about losing a few bucks on their pharm. stocks.
This is from people who don't even have the first clue about what hard work really is. Sitting in front of a computer for 10 hours a day IS NOT hard labour, get the hell off of yourselves.
Just sickening to see the "I'm rich and everyone who is lesser than me can fck off" attitude. Someone needs to kick you in the teeth to get you off of that high horse, and perhaps you can see what the real world is like.
Just sums of the arrogance the rest of the world percieves of Americans.
-Phil
This is from people who don't even have the first clue about what hard work really is. Sitting in front of a computer for 10 hours a day IS NOT hard labour, get the hell off of yourselves.
Just sickening to see the "I'm rich and everyone who is lesser than me can fck off" attitude. Someone needs to kick you in the teeth to get you off of that high horse, and perhaps you can see what the real world is like.
Just sums of the arrogance the rest of the world percieves of Americans.
-Phil
XMan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 12,513
- 49
- 91
The country of Birkina Faso (where?) in Africa is rated as the second poorest country on the planet.
Yeah? And your point is . . . ? There are dozens of non-profit groups literally handing out condoms for free.
You don't need to read to know that if you put your willy in the wrong place without protection it's going to come back to bite you.
BDawg, in Africa, the majority of people contracting it today are being born with it.
I would like to read some confirmation. I've read and heard (my mother is a nurse) that babies born to HIV positive mothers are generally disease free. The disease has trouble transferring through the uterine wall.
Yeah? And your point is . . . ? There are dozens of non-profit groups literally handing out condoms for free.
You don't need to read to know that if you put your willy in the wrong place without protection it's going to come back to bite you.
BDawg, in Africa, the majority of people contracting it today are being born with it.
I would like to read some confirmation. I've read and heard (my mother is a nurse) that babies born to HIV positive mothers are generally disease free. The disease has trouble transferring through the uterine wall.
It makes you wonder if the large drug companies even want to find a cure for a disease such as Aids. With the the money to be made with keeping people clinging to life with a dependency to expensive drugs, each individual sufferer can bring in long term riches.
The kid had it coming...
Ain't that right Boober? Makes me wonder if you are human after all, or if human excrement somehow found a way to type...
In your case, the latter I think is true.
Go bleat like a sheep elsewhere. People are what matters you selfish fascist.
Ain't that right Boober? Makes me wonder if you are human after all, or if human excrement somehow found a way to type...
In your case, the latter I think is true.
Go bleat like a sheep elsewhere. People are what matters you selfish fascist.
For all the people crying, "theif, theif!" about this, think of the flipside.
The pharmaceutical companies make $BILLIONS for a very good reason. The monopolize medicine wherever possible.
There have been many natural plant "cures" to many diseases they forcibly keep in the dark because they can't hold a patent on a natural product. They make great efforts to creat a chemical substitute for the natural substance so they have exclusive rights to it, and can charge whatever they darned well feel like. They have little interest in human life other than the fact they have to help people just enough to keep them buying more drugs.
They could have donated or sold inexpensively the drugs needed in countries like this one and Africa, where the mortality rate is staggeringly high, but they refuse to. The US, Canada, Europe... all the developed nations AFAIK are doing NOTHING to help. The governments OR the drug businesses.
It's almost as if they WANT all of africans to die so they can move in and have a whole new unpopulated continent to strip mine. :Q
The pharmaceutical companies make $BILLIONS for a very good reason. The monopolize medicine wherever possible.
There have been many natural plant "cures" to many diseases they forcibly keep in the dark because they can't hold a patent on a natural product. They make great efforts to creat a chemical substitute for the natural substance so they have exclusive rights to it, and can charge whatever they darned well feel like. They have little interest in human life other than the fact they have to help people just enough to keep them buying more drugs.
They could have donated or sold inexpensively the drugs needed in countries like this one and Africa, where the mortality rate is staggeringly high, but they refuse to. The US, Canada, Europe... all the developed nations AFAIK are doing NOTHING to help. The governments OR the drug businesses.
It's almost as if they WANT all of africans to die so they can move in and have a whole new unpopulated continent to strip mine. :Q
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
Boober? That's so clever. Did you have to use all 5 of your brain cells to think of that?
If you advocate government controlling what a private entity can do with its property, then it is you who are the fascist. You should learn what those big grown-up words mean before you start slinging them around, cowboy.
As far as bleating like a sheep, again that would be you. You're the one who's parroting the fake compassion "it's people that matter". If "it's people that matter" why are you sitting in your cozy room typing on your computer instead of up to your elbows in mud in the middle of Africa trying to help improve living conditions? Oops, I forgot. It's easier to tell someone else that they have to help others than it is to actually do it yourself. You fscking hypocrite.
If you advocate government controlling what a private entity can do with its property, then it is you who are the fascist. You should learn what those big grown-up words mean before you start slinging them around, cowboy.
As far as bleating like a sheep, again that would be you. You're the one who's parroting the fake compassion "it's people that matter". If "it's people that matter" why are you sitting in your cozy room typing on your computer instead of up to your elbows in mud in the middle of Africa trying to help improve living conditions? Oops, I forgot. It's easier to tell someone else that they have to help others than it is to actually do it yourself. You fscking hypocrite.
Boobs...
What makes you think I didn't
You know what irks you the most, a poor young black boy with AIDS in africa has done more for Humanity than a piece of dung like you. Hey, no doubt that the same can be said of me, but I admit it, and I work on it. Including volunteering. That's the difference between you and me boobs, I am trying to change things for the better. You just sit on that fat ass of yours and bitch and whine about how everything in this world is the fault of somebody else. And if bad happens to somebody, they deserved it.
The kid did nothing wrong. These kids did nothing wrong. You fVck heads who think AIDS is a preventable disease, try to explain that to these kids.
I have no idea how you sleep at night... Oh yeah! Duh! You are a worthless piece of human excrement! That's How!
What makes you think I didn't
You know what irks you the most, a poor young black boy with AIDS in africa has done more for Humanity than a piece of dung like you. Hey, no doubt that the same can be said of me, but I admit it, and I work on it. Including volunteering. That's the difference between you and me boobs, I am trying to change things for the better. You just sit on that fat ass of yours and bitch and whine about how everything in this world is the fault of somebody else. And if bad happens to somebody, they deserved it.
The kid did nothing wrong. These kids did nothing wrong. You fVck heads who think AIDS is a preventable disease, try to explain that to these kids.
I have no idea how you sleep at night... Oh yeah! Duh! You are a worthless piece of human excrement! That's How!
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