U.S. to Extend Fingerprinting to Europeans, Japanese

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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0
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aCYGH9g9C4cM&refer=japan

April 2 (Bloomberg) -- Travelers from western European nations and Japan will be added in September to the list of foreign visitors fingerprinted and photographed upon arrival in the U.S., the State Department said.

The extension is designed to address security concerns stemming from a U.S. agreement last month to delay for two years a new passport requirement for visitors from 27 countries, mostly in Europe, who are allowed to enter the U.S. without visas, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.

The rule being delayed until December 2006 will require visitors from those 27 ``visa-waiver'' countries to carry new passports that contain a machine-readable bar code and other information such as digital fingerprint identifying the holder.

The new requirement on visitors from Europe and Japan, which is drawing protests from the travel industry, followed administration talks with congressional leaders concerned about the need to improve border security while awaiting the new December 2006 passport deadline, Ereli said.

``Everybody recognizes those security needs, and that the U.S. Visit program is a very low-hassle unobtrusive way of protecting the public and protecting the United States,'' Ereli said. Fingerprinting under the U.S. Visit program drew protest upon its introduction in January from countries that include Brazil, which began retaliatory fingerprinting of U.S. visitors.

Travel Industry Worried

The new rule requiring fingerprint and photographs of U.S. visitors from the 27 visa-waiver countries will take effect Sept. 30, Ereli said. The only countries whose visitors will not be subject to such requirements are Canada and Mexico.

The Travel Industry Association of America, which last month praised the two-year passport extension, warned today that the fingerprint rule could diminish business and leisure travel by alienating European and Japanese visitors.

``While we appreciate the rationale for the federal government's action, TIA is nonetheless greatly disappointed and very concerned about potential negative reactions in key inbound tourism markets in western Europe, Japan and other important Visa Waiver countries,'' said William Norman, president of the travel association, whose members include AMR Corp.'s American Airlines and UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, and owners of leading hotel chains such as Cendant Corp. and Host Marriott Corp.

Entry Process Been Smooth

The travel association, in a statement today, acknowledged that so far the new entry procedure at U.S. airports ``has operated relatively smoothly with no significant delays.''

The association, however, fears the U.S. does not have enough staff to handle by September another 13 million visitors from the 27 visa-waiver countries, on top of the 19 million visitors already subject to the fingerprinting rules, spokeswoman Cathy Keefe said.

Asa Hutchinson, undersecretary for border and transportation security at the Department of Homeland Security, said today he was ``very confident'' that agents can handle the additional work.

``This is a substantial addition to the system, but we have our inspectors who are trained now, the system has worked, and so we're confident that this can be implemented without any delays in travel or any increase in the lines,'' Hutchinson said.

The current US Visit program covers 114 airports and 50 seaports, he said. It will be extended to the 50 busiest land border crossings by Dec. 30, he said.

`Insult Factor'

In addition to addressing concerns about potential delays, the travel association wants the U.S. government to head off the ``insult factor'' among travelers who won't understand why they need to be fingerprinted, Keefe said.

Inbound overseas travel to the U.S. has declined by 27 percent since the Sept. 11 attacks, and the travel association this year is predicting the first increase since then, about 3 percent, mostly from Britain, Keefe said. Today's announcement could endanger that, she said.

Hutchinson said U.S. officials are talking with counterparts from the 27 affected countries to try to answer any concerns.

``Our allies will see this as a good security measure and there won't be a problem,'' he said. ``This is not a security measure that we are putting in place to lengthen the waiting lines or wait times. We fully expect other nations will adopt similar procedures.''

More than 2.6 million visitors have been fingerprinted and photographed since the program began in January, Hutchinson said. About 200 of those people were on the agency's criminal watch list, he said. None was identified as a terrorism suspect.

Spokesman for the European Commission office and the Japanese embassy in Washington said they had no immediate comment.

The Bush administration told Congress last month it would agree to extend the passport rule until December 2006 because many visa-waiver countries said their citizens would not have time by then to obtain the new machine-readable passports.
 

InfectedMushroom

Golden Member
Aug 15, 2001
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I consider this to be complety sh1t. All other countries should do the same to the US, just as Brasil did.
This is demeaning and degrading.
 

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
I consider this to be complety sh1t. All other countries should do the same to the US, just as Brasil did.
This is demeaning and degrading.

I don't think it is. If any country wants to fingerprint me before entering, I have a choice.. either comply, or don't visit their country. One can argue that this isn't effective or really deterring anything, but as far as being degrading, I don't think it is.. how is it any different than requiring someone to show a passport or birth certificate?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Correction - Retinal Scanning.

They take a retinal scan and it gets encoded like varcode and printed to the Passport. This way when they scan you and does not match the passport. Will certainly stop fake passports.

This is just Phase I, Phase II is the Retinal scanning, phase III is human chips.


 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
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[Q don't think it is. If any country wants to fingerprint me before entering, I have a choice.. either comply, or don't visit their country [/quote]

And since you're obviously a World traveler... :D

 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
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0
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
I consider this to be complety sh1t. All other countries should do the same to the US, just as Brasil did.
This is demeaning and degrading.

If every country finger printed travelers coming in and out of their country, terrorists would be severly hampered. World travel is NOT an inalienable right. Frankly I dont know why people bitch about this issue. Almost everyone in the US has had their finger print taken and filed with their state and/or the FBI. Now if we could just clamp down on boarder crossings, legal and illegal.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
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It wouldn't bother me to submit my fingerprints upon entering a foriegn country. Hell in places like Brazil it could help them identify my body in case I become a victim of their out of control crime wave.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: arsbanned
[Q don't think it is. If any country wants to fingerprint me before entering, I have a choice.. either comply, or don't visit their country

And since you're obviously a World traveler... :D[/quote]

I don't know about you, but I faced much scrutiny when traveling to Morocco in 1998. I'm not sure why people think the US's policies would be degrading. There are foreign countries out there that are a lot more hardcore than the US. There are plenty of countries that won't even allow US citizens in. I can't think of a single country that we do that to in return.
 

arsbanned

Banned
Dec 12, 2003
4,853
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There are plenty of countries that won't even allow US citizens in.

Didn't Iraq try that? ;)
I agree, many countries have tougher entry policies. But we're FREE here, remember.
rolleye.gif
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: arsbanned
There are plenty of countries that won't even allow US citizens in.

Didn't Iraq try that? ;)
I agree, many countries have tougher entry policies. But we're FREE here, remember.
rolleye.gif

Freedom doesn't mean you sacrifice all security. There's the whole idea that if we let everything go then we'd no longer be free because the government would eventually be overthrown. If(big if) terrorists really attacked us for a prolonged period there could be anarchy and a severe restriction of freedom. I agree that some of this stuff is overboard, and I still think airport security is a joke.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: arsbanned
There are plenty of countries that won't even allow US citizens in.

Didn't Iraq try that? ;)
I agree, many countries have tougher entry policies. But we're FREE here, remember.
rolleye.gif

and expecialy since many of those countries in that list are used to no entry restrictions, I can go to denmark for example without having a passport

this is a huge change
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
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They take a retinal scan and it gets encoded like varcode and printed to the Passport. This way when they scan you and does not match the passport. Will certainly stop fake passports.

This type of biometric won't stop fake passports any more than our simpler system of pictures do now. The best it will do is a slight raising of the difficulty level of forging passports, and that will likely be limited to a short term effect. Ross Anderson's text Security Engineering is a good reference on the effect of improvements in security printing and biometrics.

If every country finger printed travelers coming in and out of their country, terrorists would be severly hampered.

While if such a system was correctly designed and implemented, it would hamper terrorists to some extent, the history of security systems suggest that correct design and implementation isn't highly likely. Even if you have good authentication system at the border, several of the 9/11 terrorists had valid driver's licenses issued by dishonest state employees. It's never been very difficult to get a false ID card for any country, and as I mentioned above, it's been repeatedly demonstrated that raising the bar by adding a new identification type such as biometrics or secure printing techniques only creates a temporary increase in difficulty until forgers figure out cheap, effective methods of bypassing the technique.

Almost everyone in the US has had their finger print taken and filed with their state and/or the FBI.

Not even a majority, much less almost everyone, has had their fingerprints taken. The last statistics I read were in the 90's; it was less than 10% then, and I haven't seen any large increase since, though a few more of my friends have gotten security clearances.

Freedom doesn't mean you sacrifice all security.

Good point, and to add to it: there are always tradeoffs between security and other important qualities of a system, such as freedom and cost. If security/safety was the only important quality, we'd outlaw driving, live in concrete bunkers, and wear kevlar for the few times we strayed outside. Obviously, it's not the only or even the most important quality of life, though it is important.

In the case of fingerprinting visitors, we're gaining a tiny and temporary increase in security at a noticeable cost of freedom and money. Today we're focusing on systems that give us the best appearance of security for our money, such as airport searches. When immigration can't keep track of half a million visitors a year to the U.S., airport chokepoints aren't a solution. Unfortunately, the average citizen doesn't understand the mathematics of risk estimation well, leading to common mistakes such as a avoiding air travel when you're more likely to die in a car.

I'd prefer to devote our resources to systems that are more effective in terms of security and have a lower cost in terms of freedom. We need to analyze the problems first, then come up with solutions, unlike coming up with solutions like fingerprinting and implementing them before we understand the problems. I highly recommend Bruce Schneir's Beyond Fear: Thinking Sensibly about Security in an Uncertain World for anyone interested in a deeper look than I can give here at how we should approach these problems.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom
I consider this to be complety sh1t. All other countries should do the same to the US, just as Brasil did.
This is demeaning and degrading.

I wouldn't find it demeaning or degrading to get finger printed when visiting another country.