bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The terrorists will not be given ANY safe havens... except in Pakistan, where we will borrow billions of dollars and give it to their military dictator.
Fixed for accuracy.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
The terrorists will not be given ANY safe havens... except in Pakistan, where we will borrow billions of dollars and give it to their military dictator.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
if what is true? trying to infiltrate online terrorist groups, without subverting civil liberties, in an effort to prevent the next 9/11?Originally posted by: ericlp
What did they finally fix the internet connection so they could play WOW?
I dunno, if this really is true ... It's not really a laughing matter since it's pretty disturbing what are government can and will do in the name of Terror word...
I damn sure hope it's true!
The terrorists will not be given ANY safe havens... even virtual ones!
And, as long as our efforts to find them are legal, then fvck anyone who gets in our way or tries to stop us.
* The cultural and behavioral norms of virtual worlds and gaming are generally unstudied. Therefore, Reynard will seek to identify the emerging social, behavioral and cultural norms in virtual worlds and gaming environments. The project would then apply the lessons learned to determine the feasibility of automatically detecting suspicious behavior and actions in the virtual world.
I was referring to THIS, which is what I thought the OP was referring to. my bad.Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: palehorse74
if what is true? trying to infiltrate online terrorist groups, without subverting civil liberties, in an effort to prevent the next 9/11?Originally posted by: ericlp
What did they finally fix the internet connection so they could play WOW?
I dunno, if this really is true ... It's not really a laughing matter since it's pretty disturbing what are government can and will do in the name of Terror word...
I damn sure hope it's true!
The terrorists will not be given ANY safe havens... even virtual ones!
And, as long as our efforts to find them are legal, then fvck anyone who gets in our way or tries to stop us.
Except your premise is entirely wrong.
* The cultural and behavioral norms of virtual worlds and gaming are generally unstudied. Therefore, Reynard will seek to identify the emerging social, behavioral and cultural norms in virtual worlds and gaming environments. The project would then apply the lessons learned to determine the feasibility of automatically detecting suspicious behavior and actions in the virtual world.
They're not talking about real terrorists. They are talking about trying to get in the head of gamers to see if they can identify likely "may sometime become" terrorists in virtual worlds and then peg them as trouble and watch them in the real world.
In other words they are the Thought Police.
U.S. intelligence officials are cautioning that popular Internet services that enable computer users to adopt cartoon-like personas in three-dimensional online spaces also are creating security vulnerabilities by opening novel ways for terrorists and criminals to move money, organize and conduct corporate espionage.
Over the last few years, "virtual worlds" such as Second Life and other role-playing games have become home to millions of computer-generated personas known as avatars. By directing their avatars, people can take on alternate personalities, socialize, explore and earn and spend money across uncharted online landscapes.
Nascent economies have sprung to life in these 3-D worlds, complete with currency, banks and shopping malls. Corporations and government agencies have opened animated virtual offices, and a growing number of organizations hold meetings where avatars gather and converse in newly minted conference centers.
Intelligence officials who have examined these systems say they're convinced that the qualities that many computer users find so attractive about virtual worlds -- including anonymity, global access and the expanded ability to make financial transfers outside normal channels -- have turned them into seedbeds for transnational threats.
"The virtual world is the next great frontier and in some respects is still very much a Wild West environment," a recent paper by the government's new Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity said.
"Unfortunately, what started out as a benign environment where people would congregate to share information or explore fantasy worlds is now offering the opportunity for religious/political extremists to recruit, rehearse, transfer money, and ultimately engage in information warfare or worse with impunity."
The government's growing concern seems likely to make virtual worlds the next battlefield in the struggle over the proper limits on the government's quest to improve security through data collection and analysis and the surveillance of commercial computer systems.
Virtual worlds could also become an actual battlefield. The intelligence community has begun contemplating how to use Second Life and other such communities as platforms for cyber weapons that could be used against terrorists or enemies, intelligence officials said. One analyst suggested beginning tests with so-called teams of cyber warfare experts.
The IARPA paper concurred: "What additional things are possible in the virtual world that cannot be done in the real world? The [intelligence community] needs to 'red team' some possible scenarios of use."
The CIA has created a few virtual islands for internal use, such as training and unclassified meetings, government officials said.
Some veterans of privacy debates said they believe that law enforcement and national security authorities are preparing to make a move, through coercion or new laws, to gain access to the giant computer servers where virtual worlds reside.
Jim Dempsey, policy director at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonpartisan group that monitors privacy issues, said he heard the same worries from the government when cell phones became popular in the 1980s and again when mainstream American logged on to the Internet in the 1990s.
Dempsey said the national security fears are overblown, in part because the country already has legal and technical mechanisms in place to give the government access to digital records it needs.
"They want to control this technology and make it even easier to tap than it already is," Dempsey said. "When the government is finished, every new technology becomes a more powerful surveillance tool than the technology before it."
Questions about the impact of innovations in communications technology are nothing new. Criminals, terrorists and others have used Web sites for more than a decade to recruit, operate scams and trade pornography. Law enforcement and intelligence authorities responded to new technologies by repeatedly seeking out new surveillance authorities.
Intelligence officials said, however, that the spread of virtual worlds has created additional challenges because commercial services do not keep records of communication among avatars. Because of the nature of the systems, the companies also have almost no way of monitoring the creation and use of virtual buildings and training centers, some of them protected by nearly unbreakable passwords.
"Virtual environments provide many opportunities to exchange messages in the clear without drawing unnecessary attention," the IARPA paper said. "Additionally, there are many private channels that can be employed to exchange secret messages."
And there are the numbers. Some marketers and technology observers are predicting explosive growth in the use of virtual worlds in coming years. As more people create avatars, it will become harder to identify bad guys, intelligence officials said. As in the real world, one of the central difficulties is establishing the identity of individuals.
"The challenge that we face is to be able to distinguish the fanatics from the average person looking for some simple enjoyment," said the IARPA paper.
One intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he had no evidence of activity by terrorist cells or widespread organized crime in virtual worlds. There have been numerous instances of fraud, harassment and other virtual crimes. Some computer users have used their avatars to destroy virtual buildings.
Last month, Second Life operators shut down a dozen online banks holding virtual currency worth an undetermined amount of actual dollars, after computer users raised questions about whether the banks were paying promised interest.
National security officials have begun working informally to take stock of virtual worlds. That research likely will take on more urgency this year, as companies in other countries prepare to unveil their own virtual worlds.
One such world, called HiPiHi, is being created in China. HiPiHi founders said they want to create ways for avatars to be able to travel freely between its virtual world, Second Life and other systems -- a development that intelligence officials say make it doubly hard to track down the identity of avatars.
In promotional material, HiPiHi officials said that they believe that virtual worlds "are the next phase of the Internet."
"The residents are the Gods of this virtual world; it is a world of limitless possibilities for creativity and self-expression, within a complex social structure and a full functioning economy," the promotional material says.
"Virtual worlds are ready-made havens," said a senior intelligence official who declined to be identified because of the nature of his work. "There's no way to monitor it."
The popularity of virtual worlds has grown despite the technology being in an early stage of development. The systems don't work well on older computers or those with relatively slow connections to the Internet. Though Second Life has more than 12 million registered users, only about 10 percent of those accounts are active. About 50,000 people around the world are on the system at a given moment, according to Linden Lab, which operates Second Life.
Officials from Linden Lab have initiated meetings with people in the intelligence community about virtual worlds. They try to stress that systems to monitor avatar activity and identify risky behavior are built into the technology, according to Ken Dreifach, Linden's deputy general counsel.
Dreifach said that all financial transactions are reviewed electronically, and some are reviewed by people. For investigators, there also are also plenty of trails that avatars and users leave behind.
"There are a real range and depth of electronic footprints," Dreifach said. "We don't disclose those fraud tools."
Jeff Jonas, chief scientist of IBM Entity Analytic Solutions, who has been examining developments in virtual worlds, which have attracted some investment from the company, said there's no way to predict how this technology will develop and what kind of capabilities it will provide -- good or bad. But he believes that virtual worlds are about to become far more popular.
"As the virtual worlds create more and more immersive experiences and as global accessibility to computers increases, I can envision a scenario in which hundreds of millions of people become engaged almost overnight," Jonas said.
Jonas said it's almost a certainty that clandestine activity associated with real criminals and terrorists will flourish in these environments because of the ease, reach and obscurity they offer.
"With these actors there will be organized criminal planning and behavior," he said. "The likelihood that somebody is recruiting, strategizing or planning is almost a certainty."
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Actually, this new angle has more to do with Second Life than Worlds of Warcraft, but it's certainly just as feasible in either "game." Our enemies are coming up with new and highly technical methods to thwart our efforts, every day, so it shouldnt surprise anybody that they're utilizing software tools; which, by their very nature, make users somewhat anonymous.
I'm not sure where these types of studies and investigations will lead, but it's certainly an interesting twist in anti-terrorism. First it was email.. then they shifted to IRC... and now it's virtual worlds like WoW and Second Life. What next!?
I just wish we all knew who they were so that we could zerg and camp them until they log out! LOL!
Would some of you have us just ignore them?
Some of us would have us stand up for justice for all in the world, and to have our nation stop wronging others, and greatly reduce the number of enemies.
Some of us would have us protect our liberties at the same time as pursuing responsible defense, not sacrificing more and more liberties for the ever-elusive 'more security'.
I posted before, controversially, that I'd rather see a moderate number of casualties from terrorism in the US, than to see our liberties wiped out. Many righties disagreed.
It's odd how much they righties love the tear-jerk phrases about the risks you take for liberty, but oppose actually doing so.
We should be working more on the structure of power to protect liberty in the modern world, with the US facing economic challenges from nations lacking liberty, than this crap.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Some of us sleep better at night knowing there are honest and dedicated people working to protect us from those who would harm those in this country.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Actually, this new angle has more to do with Second Life than Worlds of Warcraft, but it's certainly just as feasible in either "game." Our enemies are coming up with new and highly technical methods to thwart our efforts, every day, so it shouldnt surprise anybody that they're utilizing software tools; which, by their very nature, make users somewhat anonymous.
I'm not sure where these types of studies and investigations will lead, but it's certainly an interesting twist in anti-terrorism. First it was email.. then they shifted to IRC... and now it's virtual worlds like WoW and Second Life. What next!?
I just wish we all knew who they were so that we could zerg and camp them until they log out! LOL!
Would some of you have us just ignore them?
Some of us would have us stand up for justice for all in the world, and to have our nation stop wronging others, and greatly reduce the number of enemies.
Some of us would have us protect our liberties at the same time as pursuing responsible defense, not sacrificing more and more liberties for the ever-elusive 'more security'.
I posted before, controversially, that I'd rather see a moderate number of casualties from terrorism in the US, than to see our liberties wiped out. Many righties disagreed.
It's odd how much they righties love the tear-jerk phrases about the risks you take for liberty, but oppose actually doing so.
We should be working more on the structure of power to protect liberty in the modern world, with the US facing economic challenges from nations lacking liberty, than this crap.
Some of us sleep better at night knowing there are honest and dedicated people working to protect us from those who would harm those in this country. Those same honest and dedicated people know that our enemy (and you do know what an enemy is, right?) are smart and adaptable, and that they know how to use technology to their advantage.
We will not "greatly reduce" this enemy by being nice and handing out pink bunnies to everyone. This enemy is implacable and is intent on destroying us and our way of life simply because we exist. Our actions are merely used as a pretext for their actions which are inevitable based on their ideology.
The fact that you would sacrifice people in this country for "liberties" (and I fail to see how tracking terrorist activity online is going to infringe on your liberty) is a telling admission. Perhaps you should offer yourself and your family and friends to the terrorist as a stop-gap to their goal of a new caliphate.
The best defense is a good offense. Sitting around and waiting or sitting around and handing out "goodwill" is not going to do anything but increase the body count of US and allied citizens. Your liberty will die under the banner of radical Islam. Your failure to understand that is amazingly naive.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Actually, this new angle has more to do with Second Life than Worlds of Warcraft, but it's certainly just as feasible in either "game." Our enemies are coming up with new and highly technical methods to thwart our efforts, every day, so it shouldnt surprise anybody that they're utilizing software tools; which, by their very nature, make users somewhat anonymous.
I'm not sure where these types of studies and investigations will lead, but it's certainly an interesting twist in anti-terrorism. First it was email.. then they shifted to IRC... and now it's virtual worlds like WoW and Second Life. What next!?
I just wish we all knew who they were so that we could zerg and camp them until they log out! LOL!
Would some of you have us just ignore them?
Some of us would have us stand up for justice for all in the world, and to have our nation stop wronging others, and greatly reduce the number of enemies.
Some of us would have us protect our liberties at the same time as pursuing responsible defense, not sacrificing more and more liberties for the ever-elusive 'more security'.
I posted before, controversially, that I'd rather see a moderate number of casualties from terrorism in the US, than to see our liberties wiped out. Many righties disagreed.
It's odd how much they righties love the tear-jerk phrases about the risks you take for liberty, but oppose actually doing so.
We should be working more on the structure of power to protect liberty in the modern world, with the US facing economic challenges from nations lacking liberty, than this crap.
Some of us sleep better at night knowing there are honest and dedicated people working to protect us from those who would harm those in this country. Those same honest and dedicated people know that our enemy (and you do know what an enemy is, right?) are smart and adaptable, and that they know how to use technology to their advantage.
We will not "greatly reduce" this enemy by being nice and handing out pink bunnies to everyone. This enemy is implacable and is intent on destroying us and our way of life simply because we exist. Our actions are merely used as a pretext for their actions which are inevitable based on their ideology.
The fact that you would sacrifice people in this country for "liberties" (and I fail to see how tracking terrorist activity online is going to infringe on your liberty) is a telling admission. Perhaps you should offer yourself and your family and friends to the terrorist as a stop-gap to their goal of a new caliphate.
The best defense is a good offense. Sitting around and waiting or sitting around and handing out "goodwill" is not going to do anything but increase the body count of US and allied citizens. Your liberty will die under the banner of radical Islam. Your failure to understand that is amazingly naive.
