U.S. seeks expanded power to seize firms

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,253
48,457
136
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: eskimospy
....? Three questions for you:

1.) Do you know the reasons why the government has the power to seize banks through the FDIC? Do you agree with it, or disagree?
I do agree with the FDIC's ability to seize bank, and only banks.

2.) Do you know that these other institutions serve many of the same functions as banks that the FDIC is already able to seize in case of insolvency?
The issue is that they also serve other functions; so, until you can replace that word with "all," the Feds should not be authorized to seize complete control.

3.) If this is the case, why would you be okay with the government having the power to seize some, but not others?
See the answer to #2. I also do not trust the Government enough to limit their powers of seizure to those companies with some ambiguous relation to banking.

I mean, if you think the government shouldn't be able to take over failed banks to begin with and wish to see the FDIC abolished, I would disagree but I would understand your position. To say that because now the FDIC could seize insolvent investment banks along with regular banks that we're on a path to being able to nationalize Microsoft doesn't seem logically supportable.

Oh, and quit it with the 'government knows best' bullshit.
As far as I can tell, the only determining factor that the Government has identified, thus far, is the ambiguous notion of "too big to fail." With that being their only restriction, the potential seizure of companies like Microsoft doesn't seem so outlandish.

IOW, what checks and balances will be in place to prevent the Executive branch from reaching beyond the banking industry itself?

If you haven't noticed, the Government hasn't done much lately to demonstrate their grasp of cause and effect and the laws of unintended consequences. Give them an inch, and...

Okay, so please list the functions that these investment banks perform that you believe should make them immune from seizure in case of insolvency as opposed to a regular bank.

You should also go read up on the determining factors for government seizure of banks, because being 'too big to fail' is certainly not their only restriction. Remember, the government has been seizing failed banks for nearly a century now.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
Originally posted by: Genx87
Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would be nice if ppl did, instead of the incessant whine since Nov.

yes people should stop whinning over the direction the country is headed. the should just shut up and like it! right?

No, but they should stop whinning over things that havent even happened, or things that some website says will happen. IF it ACTUALLY happens, or if Congress, and/or Obama says they are going to make it happen, then by all means, commence whinning.

As of now, you are just whinning in the wind =)

I strongly disagree.

The proper time to complain is before something is enacted. Complaining afterwards is too late. Congress doesn't often repeal laws it just passed because of complaints. You have a MUCH better chance of influencing them NOT to pass somethng.

Applying your logic to the past adminstration would be like telling people it's wrong to complain about a possible invasion of Iraqi because it hadn't actually happened yet.

Fern
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: Fern

Applying your logic to the past adminstration would be like telling people it's wrong to complain about a possible invasion of Iraqi because it hadn't actually happened yet.

Fern

Millions of Americans complained like crazy before during and after, and alot of good that did us... :D

But my point was that its just open for discussion right now. Its not even a bill with which to vote on at this point. Its just being discussed.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: Fern

Applying your logic to the past adminstration would be like telling people it's wrong to complain about a possible invasion of Iraqi because it hadn't actually happened yet.

Fern

Millions of Americans complained like crazy before during and after, and alot of good that did us... :D

But my point was that its just open for discussion right now. Its not even a bill with which to vote on at this point. Its just being discussed.
bullshit! It's within weeks of coming to fruition if/when Congress gets on board; which, given their voting history and consistent interest in bigger government, is much more than likely. Therefore, this is a very timely discussion that must take place now, before the Government pulls all of us down a slope we can never climb off of...
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: Fern

Applying your logic to the past adminstration would be like telling people it's wrong to complain about a possible invasion of Iraqi because it hadn't actually happened yet.

Fern

Millions of Americans complained like crazy before during and after, and alot of good that did us... :D

But my point was that its just open for discussion right now. Its not even a bill with which to vote on at this point. Its just being discussed.
bullshit! It's within weeks of coming to fruition if/when Congress gets on board; which, given their voting history and consistent interest in bigger government, is much more than likely. Therefore, this is a very timely discussion that must take place now, before the Government pulls all of us down a slope we can never climb off of...

Down a slope we can never climb off of? Wow, what a heavy layer of drama... relax. Its not all that. They are just looking to stop future companies like AIG from destroying the economy of the entire country, and therefore the world. Wait to see what they actually come up with to put to a vote before you crap all over it. Sheesh.

You seem to think that us discussing it here anonymously on a political forum on a tech website will have an effect on the outcome... It wont. But you can get angry all you want, feel free.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: Fern

Applying your logic to the past adminstration would be like telling people it's wrong to complain about a possible invasion of Iraqi because it hadn't actually happened yet.

Fern

Millions of Americans complained like crazy before during and after, and alot of good that did us... :D

But my point was that its just open for discussion right now. Its not even a bill with which to vote on at this point. Its just being discussed.
bullshit! It's within weeks of coming to fruition if/when Congress gets on board; which, given their voting history and consistent interest in bigger government, is much more than likely. Therefore, this is a very timely discussion that must take place now, before the Government pulls all of us down a slope we can never climb off of...

Down a slope we can never climb off of? Wow, what a heavy layer of drama... relax. Its not all that. They are just looking to stop future companies like AIG from destroying the economy of the entire country, and therefore the world. Wait to see what they actually come up with to put to a vote before you crap all over it. Sheesh.

You seem to think that us discussing it here anonymously on a political forum on a tech website will have an effect on the outcome... It wont. But you can get angry all you want, feel free.

OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|
 

Hecubus2000

Senior member
Dec 1, 2000
674
0
0
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
Originally posted by: Genx87
Get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would be nice if ppl did, instead of the incessant whine since Nov.

yes people should stop whinning over the direction the country is headed. the should just shut up and like it! right?

exactly like all the libs did when Bush was in power. oh, wait........

If you haven't noticed, we're trying to clean up Bush's big mess here

By creating another big mess?

This.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,253
48,457
136
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|

Still waiting to hear the attributes of investment banks that you think should place them beyond the reach of seizure in case of insolvency.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|

And if it passes. and AIG or someone like it comes along and does it again, we are safe from the mess it caused... thats a win. How is that a bad thing, and what is YOUR brilliant plan to stop it from happening again"?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|

And if it passes. and AIG or someone like it comes along and does it again, we are safe from the mess it caused... thats a win. How is that a bad thing, and what is YOUR brilliant plan to stop it from happening again"?

we will NOT be safe. same crap is going to happen. The goverment was one of the leading causes of the mess we are in now. To think they will stop it from happening again is insane.

This is just a power grab to control more company's. if the goverment controls the financial sector it controls everything.
 

retrospooty

Platinum Member
Apr 3, 2002
2,031
74
86
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|

And if it passes. and AIG or someone like it comes along and does it again, we are safe from the mess it caused... thats a win. How is that a bad thing, and what is YOUR brilliant plan to stop it from happening again"?

we will NOT be safe. same crap is going to happen. The goverment was one of the leading causes of the mess we are in now. To think they will stop it from happening again is insane.

This is just a power grab to control more company's. if the goverment controls the financial sector it controls everything.

The cause was 2 part...

1 The Clinton/dems lowering standards to allow lower income people to get loans.
2 The Reps in Congress refusing to allow regulation on those lowered standards. Given that # 1 happened, #2 had to follow and it didnt.

The rest is history... When home prices started to drop, banks went under and AIG that insures these mortgages for the banks went too. The same crap wont happen again, ever if we set up regulation of the industry...

 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: retrospooty
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: retrospooty
OK... I just heard Obama's press conference.

what he wants to do is set up a regulatory system for financial companies that are large enough to bring down the economy. Like the FDIC does for banks. if we had this for AIG we would be in a lot better shape today. Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

Now if you dont like that idea, its time to bitch =)
More Executive powers... YAYYY! :|

And if it passes. and AIG or someone like it comes along and does it again, we are safe from the mess it caused... thats a win. How is that a bad thing, and what is YOUR brilliant plan to stop it from happening again"?
Fiscal Darwinism.

Let AIG fail.

Let GM fail.

Let Ford fail.

The entire "too big to fail" concept is 100% grade-A bullshit that you've been sold by history's greatest snake-oil salesman -- the 21st Century U.S. Government.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
^ Come on pale, now you're just acting no better than any of these other wingnuts. You let AIG, Bear, etc. fail and you doom small businesses that relied on them for loans, insurance, etc. to fail as well. Makes little sense to doom businesses in other completely unrelated industries for the mistakes of a handful of financial institutions, all because of ideology. Even a guy as strongly ideological as Bush didn't let ideology get in the way of bailing these guys out. Don't for a second believe McCain wouldn't have either. They know damn well exactly what happens when you purposefully drive viable, legit firms out of business (not to mention a couple million additional job losses) over misguided notions of moral hazard.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,111
5,643
126
Originally posted by: Evan
^ Come on pale, now you're just acting no better than any of these other wingnuts. You let AIG, Bear, etc. fail and you doom small businesses that relied on them for loans, insurance, etc. to fail as well. Makes little sense to doom businesses in other completely unrelated industries for the mistakes of a handful of financial institutions, all because of ideology. Even a guy as strongly ideological as Bush didn't let ideology get in the way of bailing these guys out. Don't for a second believe McCain wouldn't have either. They know damn well exactly what happens when you purposefully drive viable, legit firms out of business (not to mention a couple million additional job losses) over misguided notions of moral hazard.

Cutting AIG into smaller entities would make sense.