U.S. Scientists Say They Are Told to Alter Findings

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld...10,0,4954654.story?coll=la-home-nation
More than 200 scientists employed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service say they have been directed to alter official findings to lessen protections for plants and animals, a survey released Wednesday says.

The survey of the agency's scientific staff of 1,400 had a 30% response rate and was conducted jointly by the Union of Concerned Scientists and Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility.

A division of the Department of the Interior, the Fish and Wildlife Service is charged with determining which animals and plants should be placed on the endangered species list and designating areas where such species need to be protected.

More than half of the biologists and other researchers who responded to the survey said they knew of cases in which commercial interests, including timber, grazing, development and energy companies, had applied political pressure to reverse scientific conclusions deemed harmful to their business.

Bush administration officials, including Craig Manson, an assistant secretary of the Interior who oversees the Fish and Wildlife Service, have been critical of the 1973 Endangered Species Act, contending that its implementation has imposed hardships on developers and others while failing to restore healthy populations of wildlife.

Along with Republican leaders in Congress, the administration is pushing to revamp the act. The president's proposed budget calls for a $3-million reduction in funding of Fish and Wildlife's endangered species programs.


"The pressure to alter scientific reports for political reasons has become pervasive at Fish and Wildlife offices around the country," said Lexi Shultz of the Union of Concerned Scientists.

Mitch Snow, a spokesman for the Fish and Wildlife Service, said the agency had no comment on the survey, except to say "some of the basic premises just aren't so."

The two groups that circulated the survey also made available memos from Fish and Wildlife officials that instructed employees not to respond to the survey, even if they did so on their own time. Snow said that agency employees could not use work time to respond to outside surveys.

Fish and Wildlife scientists in 90 national offices were asked 42 questions and given space to respond in essay form in the mail-in survey sent in November.

One scientist working in the Pacific region, which includes California, wrote: "I have been through the reversal of two listing decisions due to political pressure. Science was ignored ? and worse, manipulated, to build a bogus rationale for reversal of these listing decisions."

More than 20% of survey responders reported they had been "directed to inappropriately exclude or alter technical information."

However, 69% said they had never been given such a directive. And, although more than half of the respondents said they had been ordered to alter findings to lessen protection of species, nearly 40% said they had never been required to do so.

Sally Stefferud, a biologist who retired in 2002 after 20 years with the agency, said Wednesday she was not surprised by the survey results, saying she had been ordered to change a finding on a biological opinion.

"Political pressures influence the outcome of almost all the cases," she said. "As a scientist, I would probably say you really can't trust the science coming out of the agency."

A biologist in Alaska wrote in response to the survey: "It is one thing for the department to dismiss our recommendations, it is quite another to be forced (under veiled threat of removal) to say something that is counter to our best professional judgment."

Don Lindburg, head of the office of giant panda conservation at the Zoological Society of San Diego, said it was unrealistic to expect federal scientists to be exempt from politics or pressure.

"I've not stood in the shoes of any of those scientists," he said. "But it is not difficult for me to believe that there are pressures from those who are not happy with conservation objectives, and here I am referring to development interest and others.

"But when it comes to altering data, that is a serious matter. I am really sorry to hear that scientists working for the service feel they have to do that. Changing facts to fit the politics ? that is a very unhealthy thing. If I were a scientist in that position I would just refuse to do it."

The Union of Concerned Scientists and the public employee group provided copies of the survey and excerpts from essay-style responses.

One biologist based in California, who responded to the survey, said in an interview with The Times that the Fish and Wildlife Service was not interested in adding any species to the endangered species list.

"For biologists who do endangered species analysis, my experience is that the majority of them are ordered to reverse their conclusions [if they favor listing]. There are other biologists who will do it if you won't," said the biologist, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Nice to see where Snow's loyalties lie. Right along with the typical Bush appointee.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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I'd like to hear some specifics on this as the story seems a bit one-sided. I wouldn't put it past the administration to do this but I also wouldn't put it past some scientists, quite a few who often also happen to be environmentalists, to skew some of their own data in favor of the species they were desiring to protect.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
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I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Tommunist
I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...

It's an emotional motivation for some, which is often far more powerful than monetary concerns. They have an attachment to the issue they are studying and produce findings that are biased towards that attachment. Ideally that's not how science works. In reality it happens more than we'd like to believe. Their heart is often in the right place even when the facts may not be. Sometimes relevant data is ommitted, other times it's a disagreement on the statisitical analysis or the methodolgy used. It's most evident in the study of global warming where there's constant argument going back and forth about why a study is invalid and where it falls short. It happens in studies of wildlife as well.

More often we hear about these types of things when the government does it for their own aims. But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Steeplerot
We are not all as corrupt as your heros *some tin foil for you TLC*
My heroes? You mean my mother and father? K.

btw. Thanks for the tinfoil. I can use it wrap up that big turd you just laid.

 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

The question isn't whether this sort of thing happens in more left-leaning adminstrations. Of course it does. It's a matter of degree. The current administration has perfected the art of information control. It lies, distorts, and "commits secrecy" like no other that I can remember (or have read about) in order to create an environment conducive to furthering its agenda. And any objective analysis of how it has delayed, quashed, mis-used, and selectively used reports and analyses produced by non-political bodies would conclude that this Adminstration has taken this strategy to a new level.

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Tommunist
I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...

It's an emotional motivation for some, which is often far more powerful than monetary concerns. They have an attachment to the issue they are studying and produce findings that are biased towards that attachment. Ideally that's not how science works. In reality it happens more than we'd like to believe. Their heart is often in the right place even when the facts may not be. Sometimes relevant data is ommitted, other times it's a disagreement on the statisitical analysis or the methodolgy used. It's most evident in the study of global warming where there's constant argument going back and forth about why a study is invalid and where it falls short. It happens in studies of wildlife as well.

More often we hear about these types of things when the government does it for their own aims. But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

If the papers were suspect, why were they not reviewed before the conclusions reversed? Why did politicians do this without scientific backing of their disagreements?

Why were scientists who were on a scientificpanel investigating standards for lead replaced with industry representatives who were not scientists?

Notice there were more than half who said there was a problem? That isn't some, that's an incredible number of people.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Tommunist
I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...

It's an emotional motivation for some, which is often far more powerful than monetary concerns. They have an attachment to the issue they are studying and produce findings that are biased towards that attachment. Ideally that's not how science works. In reality it happens more than we'd like to believe. Their heart is often in the right place even when the facts may not be. Sometimes relevant data is ommitted, other times it's a disagreement on the statisitical analysis or the methodolgy used. It's most evident in the study of global warming where there's constant argument going back and forth about why a study is invalid and where it falls short. It happens in studies of wildlife as well.

More often we hear about these types of things when the government does it for their own aims. But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

If the papers were suspect, why were they not reviewed before the conclusions reversed? Why did politicians do this without scientific backing of their disagreements?
Most cases come down to a study and one or more contradicting studies. Often all of them have been peer reviewed. So how can contradictory, peer reviewed studies happen?

Why were scientists who were on a scientificpanel investigating standards for lead replaced with industry representatives who were not scientists?

Notice there were more than half who said there was a problem? That isn't some, that's an incredible number of people.
You'll notice in my argument that I've already admitted the government is often more at fault in this case. I'm not saying there's not a problem in that respect. Nor does that interference please me one bit.

I'm just presenting the flip-side of the coin. I'm sure you'd like to hear arguments from both sides, wouldn't you?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Tommunist
I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...

It's an emotional motivation for some, which is often far more powerful than monetary concerns. They have an attachment to the issue they are studying and produce findings that are biased towards that attachment. Ideally that's not how science works. In reality it happens more than we'd like to believe. Their heart is often in the right place even when the facts may not be. Sometimes relevant data is ommitted, other times it's a disagreement on the statisitical analysis or the methodolgy used. It's most evident in the study of global warming where there's constant argument going back and forth about why a study is invalid and where it falls short. It happens in studies of wildlife as well.

More often we hear about these types of things when the government does it for their own aims. But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

If the papers were suspect, why were they not reviewed before the conclusions reversed? Why did politicians do this without scientific backing of their disagreements?
Most cases come down to a study and one or more contradicting studies. Often all of them have been peer reviewed. So how can contradictory, peer reviewed studies happen?

Why were scientists who were on a scientificpanel investigating standards for lead replaced with industry representatives who were not scientists?

Notice there were more than half who said there was a problem? That isn't some, that's an incredible number of people.
You'll notice in my argument that I've already admitted the government is often more at fault in this case. I'm not saying there's not a problem in that respect. Nor does that interference please me one bit.

I'm just presenting the flip-side of the coin. I'm sure you'd like to hear arguments from both sides, wouldn't you?

Yep, I would, and I would like to see the data from both arguments. Unfortunately that is hard to come by.

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Tommunist
I still don't understand the scientists telling lies theory - it just doesn't hold up b/c where is the motivation? They'd ruin their whole career for what? Unless there is money involved I just don't see how this holds water...

It's an emotional motivation for some, which is often far more powerful than monetary concerns. They have an attachment to the issue they are studying and produce findings that are biased towards that attachment. Ideally that's not how science works. In reality it happens more than we'd like to believe. Their heart is often in the right place even when the facts may not be. Sometimes relevant data is ommitted, other times it's a disagreement on the statisitical analysis or the methodolgy used. It's most evident in the study of global warming where there's constant argument going back and forth about why a study is invalid and where it falls short. It happens in studies of wildlife as well.

More often we hear about these types of things when the government does it for their own aims. But there are cases on the opposite end of the spectrum as well.

If the papers were suspect, why were they not reviewed before the conclusions reversed? Why did politicians do this without scientific backing of their disagreements?
Most cases come down to a study and one or more contradicting studies. Often all of them have been peer reviewed. So how can contradictory, peer reviewed studies happen?

Why were scientists who were on a scientificpanel investigating standards for lead replaced with industry representatives who were not scientists?

Notice there were more than half who said there was a problem? That isn't some, that's an incredible number of people.
You'll notice in my argument that I've already admitted the government is often more at fault in this case. I'm not saying there's not a problem in that respect. Nor does that interference please me one bit.

I'm just presenting the flip-side of the coin. I'm sure you'd like to hear arguments from both sides, wouldn't you?

Yep, I would, and I would like to see the data from both arguments. Unfortunately that is hard to come by.
Freedom of Information Act. It's all available if you really want it, at least for Federal stuff.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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The problem is that, generally speaking, these changes are accomplished by rejecting data that doesn't conform to a pre defined objective or agenda. So we can't see the data, just whatever part of it scientists are allowed to use and release...

I's a lot like the information peddling prior to the invasion of Iraq. For the Bush Admin, science and information are tools to sell policy, rather than tools to determine policy. If it won't sell what they want in the first place, then they'll do whatever they can to alter or suppress it. That extends from wildlife management to land utilization to parks management to mining leases to reproductive health information and the study of communicable disease. They don't care about the consequences, they only care about the fact that the right people are showing a profit, making campaign contributions while providing investment opportunities and post-govt employment opportunities...
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Jhhnn,

You forgot to mention that the devil wants your soul and it's turtles all the way down.

Just thought I'd remind you.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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This doesn't surprise me really -- it's part and parcel of a larger trend of the Bush administration to bend reality to fit their agenda. I mean how many times does it need to happen, and in how many different governmental agencies, before you recognize the trend for what it really is.
 
Oct 9, 1999
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as an enviornmental studies major, we had a huge discussion overthis.. esp since some of my profs are involved with fisheries.

bush needs to get out of office, and the US needs to grow up and stop acting like a child and play well with others.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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Yesterday on CNBC they interviewed the former head of EPA's Air Quaility Control division. he had been with the EPA for 20+ years but resigned just this December because the Bush administration stripped the EPA of some of its powers that he felt were necessary for him to be able to do his job of ensuring our air is clean.

this is after heavy lobbying from the multi-billion dollar electric/coal industry.

here is the irony: the guy who quit was being awarded by the EPA for a Lifetime Service Award several months AFTER he resigned
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Yesterday on CNBC they interviewed the former head of EPA's Air Quaility Control division. he had been with the EPA for 20+ years but resigned just this December because the Bush administration stripped the EPA of some of its powers that he felt were necessary for him to be able to do his job of ensuring our air is clean.

this is after heavy lobbying from the multi-billion dollar electric/coal industry.

here is the irony: the guy who quit was being awarded by the EPA for a Lifetime Service Award several months AFTER he resigned
Heavy lobbying from corporate interests had greater impact than protecting our environment?

No! It can't be!
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
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Judging by the concensus here it seems that the right is severely underrepresented because this is pretty much indefensible...
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: busmaster11
Judging by the concensus here it seems that the right is severely underrepresented because this is pretty much indefensible...

A lot of things on this thread are indefensible, but the right sure tries.