U.S. Patents and 'formulas'

[edprush]

Let's say I know the formula or Gatorade and decide to bottle it an sell it in a country that doesn't have Gatorade.

OR

Let's say I manufacture a product and sell it in a foreign country BUT the same product has a U.S. Patent.

Are either of those activities illegal?

 

[RGUN]

Im quite sure its up to the government whether or not to enforce US patents

 

[Futher]

Yeah, I think each country has their own patent system. A US patent means practically nothing in another country.

 

[Vonkhan]

depends on the country

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Futher
Yeah, I think each country has their own patent system. A US patent means practically nothing in another country.

A lot of companies in other countries that have an idea they want to protect will do what both countries require. Having a US patent means a bit more than most people in the US would give it credit for.

 

[jagec]

Ask China.

 

[mrkun]

I'm fairly certain there is are some types of international patents than many countries recognize.

 

[everman]

It's a bit of a sticky gray area, currently the U.S. is trying to get China to crack down on intellectual property infringement.

 

[Dirigible]

A US patent only has force in the US. Often, companies will not have patent protection in other countries, or only a few other countries because of the cost involved. Still, if you make something in a country where the thing isn't patented, and import it to the US where it is patented, you're liable for patent infringement. So in the case where there's only a US patent and you make and sell stuff in a non-US country, there is no patent infringement and you're free and clear on that front.

Your Gatorade example does not have enough facts. Is the formula a trade secret? In what country are you selling it? I actually don't know the answer here. I am a patent attorney but am not a trade secret expert.

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: mrkun
I'm fairly certain there is are some types of international patents than many countries recognize.

No, there is not.

(And I am a patent attorney who does a lot of work with non-US patents.)

 

[mrkun]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: mrkun
I'm fairly certain there is are some types of international patents than many countries recognize.

No, there is not.

(And I am a patent attorney who does a lot of work with non-US patents.)

This is probably what I was thinking of.

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: mrkun

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Originally posted by: mrkun
I'm fairly certain there is are some types of international patents than many countries recognize.

No, there is not.

(And I am a patent attorney who does a lot of work with non-US patents.)

This is probably what I was thinking of.

That's a classification system.

You may have been thinking of the PCT (Patent Cooperation Treaty), where you file an "international patent" but all it really does is delay the time before you have to file in individual countries. Or maybe the EP patent application, which consolidates patent prosecution for several European countries, but at the end of which you still have to file and pay fees in each actual country where you want a patent.

 

[edprush]

Originally posted by: Dirigible

Your Gatorade example does not have enough facts. Is the formula a trade secret? In what country are you selling it? I actually don't know the answer here. I am a patent attorney but am not a trade secret expert.

I'm not sure that a 'trade secret' has any legal protection.

Let's say I used a laboratory to determine the composition of Gatorade and then decided to manufacture and sell it (calling it something else) in South Korea.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Dirigible
A US patent only has force in the US. Often, companies will not have patent protection in other countries, or only a few other countries because of the cost involved. Still, if you make something in a country where the thing isn't patented, and import it to the US where it is patented, you're liable for patent infringement. So in the case where there's only a US patent and you make and sell stuff in a non-US country, there is no patent infringement and you're free and clear on that front.

Your Gatorade example does not have enough facts. Is the formula a trade secret? In what country are you selling it? I actually don't know the answer here. I am a patent attorney but am not a trade secret expert.

It's highly unlikely that Gatorade was patentable in the first place (maybe the sqeeze-bottle), but trade secrets have no protection. The recipe for Heinz ketchup, for example, has absolutely no legal standing - they just won't tell you what it is.

 

[Vonkhan]

This is actually a huge issue in the pharmaceuticals market - for example a US company can spends millions of $s developing a drug and all an Indian company has to do is replicate it off a journal w/o paying any royalties. Easier said than done, but u get the idea.

 

[Vonkhan]

and o ye, dont even try to figure out the nomenclature of Japanese patents since they liked to date everything off the Emperor ...

seriously

 

[edprush]

^

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: Futher
Yeah, I think each country has their own patent system. A US patent means practically nothing in another country.

Ding Ding Ding!!!!! You are correct sir!

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dirigible
A US patent only has force in the US. Often, companies will not have patent protection in other countries, or only a few other countries because of the cost involved. Still, if you make something in a country where the thing isn't patented, and import it to the US where it is patented, you're liable for patent infringement. So in the case where there's only a US patent and you make and sell stuff in a non-US country, there is no patent infringement and you're free and clear on that front.

Your Gatorade example does not have enough facts. Is the formula a trade secret? In what country are you selling it? I actually don't know the answer here. I am a patent attorney but am not a trade secret expert.

It's highly unlikely that Gatorade was patentable in the first place (maybe the sqeeze-bottle), but trade secrets have no protection. The recipe for Heinz ketchup, for example, has absolutely no legal standing - they just won't tell you what it is.

the only protection is misappropriation-

if you knowingly took it,
if they company you give it to knows you acquired it by bad means

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
and o ye, dont even try to figure out the nomenclature of Japanese patents since they liked to date everything off the Emperor ...

seriously

really?

 

[patentman]

Yep, first two digits of most japanese patents refer to the number of years that have passed in the present Japanese empire.

 

[dbot]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
This is actually a huge issue in the pharmaceuticals market - for example a US company can spends millions of $s developing a drug and all an Indian company has to do is replicate it off a journal w/o paying any royalties. Easier said than done, but u get the idea.

Yea but most companies, especially large ones who invest a lot of money into development will apply for coverage across other countries within a year of developing their invention

 

[DrPizza]

AFAIK, such things as recipes, perfumes, etc. are not patentable. Hence all the imitation perfumes that smell almost exactly the same as the real thing. Compare the ingredients in brand name foods with the ingredients of similar generic or small-time companies... almost identical.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: patentman
Yep, first two digits of most japanese patents refer to the number of years that have passed in the present Japanese empire.

That's not how they date patents, that is how Japanese calendar works period. A cultural leftover from ancient Chinese times.

 

[StartingLine]

This is one reason I think pharamaceutical companies charge so much in the US and charge so little overseas. They know that other countries will just find the chemical properties of their pills and develop them themselves if they charge high rates over there. So basically we produce the ground breaking medications, we have to pay the high prices while other countries get the drugs for dirt cheap because what can be done.