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U.S. on brink of greatest Depression of all time

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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
One thing you also have to look at is that if we get further downgrades on our debt that the interest rate could go up and we would have to pay even more interest on the debt and this would further increase the rate at which the debt payments increase and reduce the amount of discretionary funds available. It could also scare investors away from treasury notes. If we cant sell treasury notes we are ruined.

Most of the models dont take into effect what happens if we have to pay more interest on the debt. What if we are looking at a %10 interest rate to borrow money? What is it now?

This is not like an absolute emergency but a few things could happen going forward. It could be harder to get a loan. If you dont have a fixed rate loan the interest rates could keep rising. The Fed could react to inflation by raising interest rates. Taxes could also go up depending who is in charge.

The so-called affordable health care act is everything but affordable and you are going to pay for it. Wait till the IRS starts hijacking tax returns to pay for people who are not insured for one reason or another. The penalties could be hidden taxes anywhere from $500 - $5,000 per year on people currently laid off.

Then the Bush Temporary tax cuts could run out. The the more money you make the worse it will hurt. Can you afford to pay that extra $2,000 - $5,000 per year? Better prepare to start eating dogfood as the price of food rises %300!
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,325
126
Alleging fraud and proving it, particularly against well insulated deep pockets defendants are entirely different matters.
That is bullshit, I can friggen prove fraud with statements made by bigwhig banksters in front of Congress for fucks sake. How many indictments from the S&L fiasco? How many out of this one?

A single phone call to the justice department demanding that they look into any and all crimes committed would prove me right. I wonder why he never made that call?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,325
126
One thing you also have to look at is that if we get further downgrades on our debt that the interest rate could go up and we would have to pay even more interest on the debt and this would further increase the rate at which the debt payments increase and reduce the amount of discretionary funds available. It could also scare investors away from treasury notes. If we cant sell treasury notes we are ruined.
Regardless of downgrades, if and when the global economy improves I highly doubt that people will be willing to lend us money at an effective negative return.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,637
4,224
136
Now soldiers are in on the act. Are you aware 45% of returning vets are claiming "disability"
-- a number that dwarfs all prior records in the history of warfare. No nation can afford this.

I always knew those vets are all a bunch of lazy, money leaching Liberals. Always expecting a free lunch from a meal card and free housing and fre health care and crap. Socialists, the lot of them. Spare us all of that PTSD crap. WW2 vets didn't have any PTSD Liberal bullshit, they WORKED through that shit and a golden age of America was born. And what's with all this "Waaaahhh my legs got blown off by a road side bomb" BS they're always telling us? You still got arms. You can still handle a phone and be a receptionist or some crap. Why do you have to steal my precious tax dollars because you refuse to adapt and put in an honest days work?
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
^ Dude it's not big deal if you like to fuck guys. I'm cool, I got friends who fuck guys...in jail. No for real though, I don't judge, you've admitted you're gay (like a few months ago, can't remember). Can't backtrack now, just let it go.
So....you didn't have any luck getting your "Mr. Inglesis" hookup huh? Bummer for you... :(

P.S. Never admitted to being gay, would never admit that, because, unlike you apperently, I'm not gay. Seek some help, not only are you slow mentally, you've got gender identity issues as well. Yikes...

Chuck
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Meltdown is being banned previously on your spidey handle, then logging into chucky account vs taking the time out given by the mods.

Compulsive behavior and the assumption the rules don't apply to you.
Tasha....just because you've consistently been destroyed in the '17 year old thug' thread, doesn't mean you should come here to other threads and again get owned. Is this the logic of the 'C level' manager? Haha too much, too much... Odd you're claiming I'm someone else the same time I put together First and Dave are likely the same person. Is this a third account you have now? :confused:o_O:confused:

Chuck
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,747
13,864
136
That is bullshit, I can friggen prove fraud with statements made by bigwhig banksters in front of Congress for fucks sake. How many indictments from the S&L fiasco? How many out of this one?

A single phone call to the justice department demanding that they look into any and all crimes committed would prove me right. I wonder why he never made that call?
Heh. The smartest thing a criminal can do is admit guilt in front of congress, because it taints the evidence. Witness several Iran Contra defendants.

None of what you offer will change the future much at all, because financial perps always think they're smarter than everybody else. So it doesn't matter what happened to the last bunch- witness the non-preventative effect of the S&L prosecutions on today's financial geniuses.

The S&L situation did not threaten the entirety of the financial system in the same way as the collapse of the housing bubble, at all. I'll agree that it's unfortunate we allowed ourselves to be put in the position of being extorted by the banksters, but the system is so fragile that going after them would likely make it worse, not better. I'm not sure we can really back away from catastrophe, at all, and I think we'll need to use carrots rather than sticks if we're to succeed.

The only way to insure a safer financial future for all of us is with structural changes to the financial environment, changes that simply rule out the conflicts of interest used in all financial scams. Dodd-Frank is a small step in the right direction, and we'll need more.
 

RearAdmiral

Platinum Member
Jun 24, 2004
2,126
65
91
Fox News or not, and regardless of who's at fault, I can't shake the feeling like there's a very big looming economic cataclysm.
See I have this feeling too. It's frustrating because it's impossible to prove or disprove given the insane amount of mis/information on the topic. I'd rather not live in fear of having to shoot people that are trying to steal my food. It almost makes you understand why old cooks hid money in their beds.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,776
0
76
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, don't vote for the black guy or the economy will collapse....and we will see to it that it does.
 

Iron Wolf

Member
Jul 27, 2010
185
0
0
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, don't vote for the black guy or the economy will collapse....and we will see to it that it does.
The thing is, it's not going to matter whether you vote for the black guy or whether you vote for the cultist. Either way, the country is screwed. It's simply too big of a problem, and no one knows how to fix it. Will we end up like the PIGS nations? Who knows? One thing is certain, though: we won't respond to the crisis until after it has actually happened, and by then it will be too late.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,530
271
136
So....you didn't have any luck getting your "Mr. Inglesis" hookup huh? Bummer for you... :(

P.S. Never admitted to being gay, would never admit that, because, unlike you apperently, I'm not gay. Seek some help, not only are you slow mentally, you've got gender identity issues as well. Yikes...

Chuck
It's cool I don't judge when you fuck dudes, it's who you are and I accept you. Though you'd think you'd be able to take it up the ass better after getting fucked so thoroughly in yet another thread.

Meh, to each his own.

lol
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,747
13,864
136
The thing is, it's not going to matter whether you vote for the black guy or whether you vote for the cultist. Either way, the country is screwed. It's simply too big of a problem, and no one knows how to fix it. Will we end up like the PIGS nations? Who knows? One thing is certain, though: we won't respond to the crisis until after it has actually happened, and by then it will be too late.
We can't end up like the PIIGS, because we are not constrained by the faux gold standard of the euro. One could argue about devaluation, but devaluation against what major currency, exactly? The Euro, Yen, or Renminbi? It's absurd.

We could end up in the same position if we went back to the gold standard, as Repubs suggest-

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/republicans-add-returning-gold-standard

Our problem isn't government debt, at all, but rather private sector debt, the legacy of the Ownership Society & of Supply side economics-



Yeh, I know, it "started" before Reagan, but has exploded ever since. It's been a function of substitution of credit for wages all along, and finally reached unsustainable levels.

So private sector deleveraging is the answer, except how do we do that when much of the debt is in underwater long term mortgages?

We can attempt to inflate away the value of the debt, monetize it, which is a tough proposition in a liquidity trap. We can attempt to compensate with govt spending to hold up employment, prevent a debt deflation spiral, and we can allow the FRB to engage in quantitative easing to allow banks more money to lend, which doesn't work well in a liquidity trap, either. It just keeps them in business.

Even with all that, we're in for a long, long period of deleveraging, & low to negative growth where everybody other than the wealthiest suffer to some degree or another. In depressed economies, cash is King, and the greater the depression, the greater the purchasing power of cash.

If we want to avoid that, then we need to think entirely outside the box, which Steve Keen does-

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/manifesto/

He calls for a modern debt jubilee, an interesting idea. I haven't fully digested his work, but it's interesting, to say the least.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,776
0
76
We can't end up like the PIIGS, because we are not constrained by the faux gold standard of the euro. One could argue about devaluation, but devaluation against what major currency, exactly? The Euro, Yen, or Renminbi? It's absurd.

We could end up in the same position if we went back to the gold standard, as Repubs suggest-

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/republicans-add-returning-gold-standard

Our problem isn't government debt, at all, but rather private sector debt, the legacy of the Ownership Society & of Supply side economics-



Yeh, I know, it "started" before Reagan, but has exploded ever since. It's been a function of substitution of credit for wages all along, and finally reached unsustainable levels.

So private sector deleveraging is the answer, except how do we do that when much of the debt is in underwater long term mortgages?

We can attempt to inflate away the value of the debt, monetize it, which is a tough proposition in a liquidity trap. We can attempt to compensate with govt spending to hold up employment, prevent a debt deflation spiral, and we can allow the FRB to engage in quantitative easing to allow banks more money to lend, which doesn't work well in a liquidity trap, either. It just keeps them in business.

Even with all that, we're in for a long, long period of deleveraging, & low to negative growth where everybody other than the wealthiest suffer to some degree or another. In depressed economies, cash is King, and the greater the depression, the greater the purchasing power of cash.

If we want to avoid that, then we need to think entirely outside the box, which Steve Keen does-

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/manifesto/

He calls for a modern debt jubilee, an interesting idea. I haven't fully digested his work, but it's interesting, to say the least.
The only mistake you made in this excellent post is believing any of these simps would actually understand what Keenes is talking about in that link.

Also, notice how the debt has skyrocketed in the years during and since WW2 thanks to the constant warmongering of our government....which also had a big hand in destroying Russia.
 

Skitzer

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2000
4,417
3
81
So....you didn't have any luck getting your "Mr. Inglesis" hookup huh? Bummer for you... :(

P.S. Never admitted to being gay, would never admit that, because, unlike you apperently, I'm not gay. Seek some help, not only are you slow mentally, you've got gender identity issues as well. Yikes...

Chuck
It's cool I don't judge when you fuck dudes, it's who you are and I accept you. Though you'd think you'd be able to take it up the ass better after getting fucked so thoroughly in yet another thread.

Meh, to each his own.

lol
You guys should just get a room and be done with it.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,776
0
76
The thing is, it's not going to matter whether you vote for the black guy or whether you vote for the cultist. Either way, the country is screwed. It's simply too big of a problem, and no one knows how to fix it. Will we end up like the PIGS nations? Who knows? One thing is certain, though: we won't respond to the crisis until after it has actually happened, and by then it will be too late.
And that is exactly what they want. I guarantee you that when, or if, this country falls on it's face those same assholes that made trillions off the 2008 crash will make trillions again. And in the end, isn't that what America is all about? Betting against the best interest of the country for profit....
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
You guys should just get a room and be done with it.
Being stuck in a room with a multiple personality disorder gay guy, none of whose personalities have an intelligence level above 3rd grader, who is quite clearly frustrated because he can't find a Top, is not really anyone who I'd want to spend time with while I'm here on Earth. Obviously the guy has (multiple) issues, I just entertain myself at his expense... :sneaky:

Chuck
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,321
2
0
Our problem isn't government debt, at all, but rather private sector debt, the legacy of the Ownership Society & of Supply side economics-



Yeh, I know, it "started" before Reagan, but has exploded ever since. It's been a function of substitution of credit for wages all along, and finally reached unsustainable levels.
I get it. It's one of those pictures you have to blurr and cross your eyes to see Reagan and Bush's fault in there.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,530
271
136
You guys should just get a room and be done with it.
Nah, dude PM'ed me basically probing my sexual orientation. I respect gay people but don't enjoy giving or taking it in the ass. It's cool. It happens, chunky just needs to get laid is all.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
26,172
11,319
136
8-24-2012

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/23/why-are-on-brink-greatest-depression-all-time/

We are on the brink of the greatest Depression of all time


Everywhere from FoxNews.com to CNBC.com, I suddenly see commentators warning of pending doom, economic collapse, and a new Great Depression.

This time the results are going to be dramatically worse than 1929. This time we are facing The Greatest Depression ever.

Protected by their unions and the politicians they elect, government employees are bankrupting America. In Illinois there are retired government employees making over $425,000 per year
.


No one could have imagined any of this in 1929. There is no possible way to pay these bills moving forward.

Now soldiers are in on the act. Are you aware 45% of returning vets are claiming "disability"
-- a number that dwarfs all prior records in the history of warfare. No nation can afford this.

The economy is crumbling. The situation is turning more hopeless by the hour.

Like so many other great empires of history, America may never recover from this Greatest Depression of All Time.


So where the fuck was Fox News when we were losing almost 800K jobs/month and GDP was almost -9% annually?

Oh that's right their head buried in GW Bush's ass!

Now all of a sudden we are on the verge of a depression?????

SERIOUSLY???????
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,820
1,123
126
Obama has had four years to get us out of this mess. He'll problaby win and get a another four years. When we are still in a mess after eight years is it still going to be someone else's fault?
If re-elected and the GOP plays obstruction politics what do you think the outcome will be again. Another 4 years of not a GD thing getting done in DC. The R's have made it clear the will let nothing that is not attached to the nutsack of a millionaire go though... If the rich can't have their cake and eat it too, fuck you America, we are holding the economy hostage.

Can our country endure another 4 years of this bullshit is a better question...
 

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