U.S. OKs Expanded Oil Drilling in Alaska

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Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: Beowulf
Sure having more efficient cars would be nice but whats wrong with an SUV especially if you can afford to buy gas with no problem.

well personally I'd say it's as simple as this: SUV's are inefficient PIGS as vehicles go. They are heavy and cumbersome, tiring to drive, difficult to maneuver and impossible to stop in a reasonable distance. While I would never advocate the outlawing of SUV's (or any vehicle), I do think that people should pull their heads out of their asses and stop buying these pieces of crap.

Efficiency, people! What the hell are you thinking?!

Jason
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
And with that being the standard, I am guessing you dont want any oil developement dont anywhere?
Yeah, that's what I meant Charrison. Nice strawman. :roll:
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: charrison
And with that being the standard, I am guessing you dont want any oil developement dont anywhere?
Yeah, that's what I meant Charrison. Nice strawman. :roll:

Ok, so if is not a fear of an accident, then what is the issue with developing anwr or alaska in general.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: raildogg
I never supported drilling for oil in Alaska. The quantity of oil is not enough to justify destroying the land for many many animals who live there. This is where Bush is definately wrong. I have more to add, later.



Proof that the land will be destroyed.

We don't need it. Majority of the analysis says that it will provide up to 6 months of petroleum supply. But will end up destroying the untouched wilderness there.

The 19 million-acre land you point to have so many animals there that surely will be effected by this. For what? for only 6 months of oil, it is not worth it. It contains the caribou, moose, wolves, foxes grizzly bears and polar bears and a whole lot of other animals. If they get the opportunity to drill there, other untouched areas around it are at danger.

2 Billion barrels only a 6 month supply???

Not even, unless you are China. For the US, that is about 3 months. We consume 8 billion barrels of oil yearly. The world consumes 30 billion barrels a year. I think the latest ANWR data shows about 9 billion barrels recoverable. That'll be about 900,000 barrels of oil per day for 10 years. Or about a 7% decrease in imports in ~15 years assuming that demand stays constant.

If companies drill today in the most favorable fields, it will take 4-6 years to see any oil and it'll take a decade for production to reach its peak, remain that high for maybe a year and then permantently decline at 2-12% per year depending when secondary recovery was initated.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
I'm sorry, but the ones in this thread who oppose the drilling sound like, for a lack of a better word, idiots!

Have you ever been to Prudhoe Bay? Have you ever seen the tundra? Yeah, I doubt it. What's up there you ask? Tundra, Caribou, and small villages.

What do the Alaska Natives say about drilling? The VAST majority in heavily in favor of drilling. Why? BECAUSE IT CREATES JOBS. BECAUSE IT HELPS OUR ECONOMY. The Caribou, the Polar Bears, and other animals don't give a damn about the pipeline or any facilities. They just walk on by. We're not building cities that are driving the caribou out...the land is HUGE. Like I said, the animals DON'T CARE. Of course I can't read their mind, but I've seen FIRSTHAND a herd of caribou walk right buy a one of our facilities....they didn't seem bothered in the slightest.

If you don't live in Alaska and haven't seen what actually goes on I suggest you STFU and MYOFB. :D

 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
0
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
I'm sorry, but the ones in this thread who oppose the drilling sound like, for a lack of a better word, idiots!

Have you ever been to Prudhoe Bay? Have you ever seen the tundra? Yeah, I doubt it. What's up there you ask? Tundra, Caribou, and small villages.

What do the Alaska Natives say about drilling? The VAST majority in heavily in favor of drilling. Why? BECAUSE IT CREATES JOBS. BECAUSE IT HELPS OUR ECONOMY. The Caribou, the Polar Bears, and other animals don't give a damn about the pipeline or any facilities. They just walk on by. We're not building cities that are driving the caribou out...the land is HUGE. Like I said, the animals DON'T CARE. Of course I can't read their mind, but I've seen FIRSTHAND a herd of caribou walk right buy a one of our facilities....they didn't seem bothered in the slightest.

If you don't live in Alaska and haven't seen what actually goes on I suggest you STFU and MYOFB. :D

Have you ever been to Cornwallis Island? Think Alaska is cold? Heck, most of it still has trees!

What the Inuit would want is their life back. Just like the Native Americans that died from disease and worse, the Inuit faced the same horrors (right up to the 1920's they were dying of common diseases brought there by whalers). Don't speak for them, they are capable to speak for themselves.

Oh, and read about the saddest tale of the Inuit Parry stole and who died in the bowels of the Smithsonian Institute. Then dissected like animals.

SPIT.

BTW, do you even realize Eskimo is a derogative name? It's French for "eaters of raw meat". Alaskan natives still prefer to be called it, but the Canadian natives refer to themselves as the Inuit ("the people").

You don't need to live in Alaska to know about the area, Nut. I probably know more about Alaska's environment, geology, native culture, language and outlook than you. BTW, what was the Dorset culture? Blank, huh?

So don't tell folks to shut up when you're no less clueless yourself, Kabloona.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,801
126
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
I'm sorry, but the ones in this thread who oppose the drilling sound like, for a lack of a better word, idiots!

Have you ever been to Prudhoe Bay? Have you ever seen the tundra? Yeah, I doubt it. What's up there you ask? Tundra, Caribou, and small villages.

What do the Alaska Natives say about drilling? The VAST majority in heavily in favor of drilling. Why? BECAUSE IT CREATES JOBS. BECAUSE IT HELPS OUR ECONOMY. The Caribou, the Polar Bears, and other animals don't give a damn about the pipeline or any facilities. They just walk on by. We're not building cities that are driving the caribou out...the land is HUGE. Like I said, the animals DON'T CARE. Of course I can't read their mind, but I've seen FIRSTHAND a herd of caribou walk right buy a one of our facilities....they didn't seem bothered in the slightest.

If you don't live in Alaska and haven't seen what actually goes on I suggest you STFU and MYOFB. :D

:cookie:
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
I'm sorry, but the ones in this thread who oppose the drilling sound like, for a lack of a better word, idiots!

Have you ever been to Prudhoe Bay? Have you ever seen the tundra? Yeah, I doubt it. What's up there you ask? Tundra, Caribou, and small villages.

What do the Alaska Natives say about drilling? The VAST majority in heavily in favor of drilling. Why? BECAUSE IT CREATES JOBS. BECAUSE IT HELPS OUR ECONOMY. The Caribou, the Polar Bears, and other animals don't give a damn about the pipeline or any facilities. They just walk on by. We're not building cities that are driving the caribou out...the land is HUGE. Like I said, the animals DON'T CARE. Of course I can't read their mind, but I've seen FIRSTHAND a herd of caribou walk right buy a one of our facilities....they didn't seem bothered in the slightest.

If you don't live in Alaska and haven't seen what actually goes on I suggest you STFU and MYOFB. :D

Have you ever been to Cornwallis Island? Think Alaska is cold? Heck, most of it still has trees!

What the Inuit would want is their life back. Just like the Native Americans that died from disease and worse, the Inuit faced the same horrors (right up to the 1920's they were dying of common diseases brought there by whalers). Don't speak for them, they are capable to speak for themselves.

Oh, and read about the saddest tale of the Inuit Parry stole and who died in the bowels of the Smithsonian Institute. Then dissected like animals.

SPIT.

BTW, do you even realize Eskimo is a derogative name? It's French for "eaters of raw meat". Alaskan natives still prefer to be called it, but the Canadian natives refer to themselves as the Inuit ("the people").

You don't need to live in Alaska to know about the area, Nut. I probably know more about Alaska's environment, geology, native culture, language and outlook than you. BTW, what was the Dorset culture? Blank, huh?

So don't tell folks to shut up when you're no less clueless yourself, Kabloona.

Must I school you AGAIN?

Ok, here we go:

First off, no, most of Alaskan's don't know the area. Anchorage is a far cry from the Arctic Slope. You MAY know more than me from what you learned in a book, but have you lived here? In REAL ALASKA. That's where I grew up, in REAL ALASKA. No, not on the slope, but in a small coastal community, in a, guess what, A NATIVE FAMILY. Whoa, amazing huh. Inuit...inuit...the people in that region are actuall INUPIAT, but we won't get into details. And guess what. EVERY Native that I talk to (I work for a Native Corporation, thank you) is in favor of the drilling.

They don't want their "old way of life back", they still have that in their villages. They want and NEED $$$. Why? Because the industries are crap, fishing is horrible, mining is almost nonexistant. So what do they do to make $$$? Well, in case you weren't aware, oil exploration brings hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs into the Alaskan Economy...and who do these companies prefer to hire? ALASKAN NATIVES. Many of the smaller oil drilling companies are owned by natives...and practice native preference. :)

What the Alaska Natives need is help with the widespread alcoholism problem...they are NOT against bringing jobs to help their (my) people prosper.

So again, STFU and MYOFB! :D

BTW- We don't call natives Eskimos...it's derragatory. (sp?)

 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
0
What I learned is much more than living in Alaska (like Alaska is the storehouse of Inuit ways and means). Anchorage city boys don't exactly qualify as being very knowledgeable of Alaska anyway, ya know (and you're a city boy because you can afford being online -- not like you're living in a shack out on Beechey Point, huh?

"They still have their villages" :rolleyes:. Inuit never lived in villages they're the last of the northern hemisphere hunter/gathers, they followed the caribou like Native Americans followed the buffalo. They lived as extended bands of about 40 people (that's all the land could support, and even then sometimes they starved). The Inuit of the Back's Fish River area were Arctic char gathers and they literally died off, so unclothed and ragged their numbers were a few hundred by the time the Kabloonas came.

They never lived in villages, dummy.

I know them personally, not from some book. I told you I've researched the arctic for over 20 years, that should give you a clue.

So how about stuffing a sock into your own pie hole for being so ignorant about the very people in your backyard.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: Terumo
What I learned is much more than living in Alaska (like Alaska is the storehouse of Inuit ways and means). Anchorage city boys don't exactly qualify as being very knowledgeable of Alaska anyway, ya know (and you're a city boy because you can afford being online -- not like you're living in a shack out on Beechey Point, huh?

"They still have their villages" :rolleyes:. Inuit never lived in villages they're the last of the northern hemisphere hunter/gathers, they followed the caribou like Native Americans followed the buffalo. They lived as extended bands of about 40 people (that's all the land could support, and even then sometimes they starved). The Inuit of the Back's Fish River area were Arctic char gathers and they literally died off, so unclothed and ragged their numbers were a few hundred by the time the Kabloonas came.

They never lived in villages, dummy.

I know them personally, not from some book. I told you I've researched the arctic for over 20 years, that should give you a clue.

So how about stuffing a sock into your own pie hole for being so ignorant about the very people in your backyard.

Haha...sorry, but you still SOUND like an idiot (see, there's a bit of a difference between calling someone an idiot, which I didn't, and saying you sound like one). I'm sure you're a bright individual on many fronts, but on this you're wrong. And you're getting your panties in a knot because you've found someone who actually has some background in this that is perhaps SMARTER THAN YOU in this subject?!?! My god, burn the bridges!!!

ANYWAY

You say you've studied the Arctic for 20 years. If you love the Artic so much why haven't you visited there? Have you visited Alaska? 20 years is a long time to study a geographic subject that you've never seen.

Yes, I AM A CITY BOY...NOW. Well, if you can call Anchorage a city. I was born in Anchorage, and grew up in Seldovia. Seldovia is NOT a city, it's a VILLAGE of less than 300 people and is only accessible by boat or plane. No, it is not a village in the Arctic Slope, but a village nonetheless. Guess what, we had internet when I was in highschool. The villages on the Arctic slope have internet NOW. Why? BECAUSE OF THE OIL COMPANIES. They helped outfit many of the smaller villages with Satellite internet service a few years ago.

What is with this history lesson that you're giving that has nothing to do with the subject? The Natives live in Villages NOW, and they lived in Villages LONG BEFORE THE "WHITE MAN" came. So sorry, that was simply retarded.

The Native population, just like any population WANT to succeed and provide for their families. The problem Natives have is NOT with the oil companies (because they provide jobs and practice Native Hire preference), it's with the lack of education given in the smaller villages, it is the rampant abuse of Alcohol by the Native population, it's the lack of expansion once a child grows up and realizes that he/she is stuck in the village without taking a huge risk by moving to the "big city". The oil companies expansion and providing more jobs will allow the Native population to make great money, gain valuable experience, and allow them to be successful and proud! Can't you understand that?

Before you rant and rave anymore, take a trip to the Arctic Slope and then get back to me. Pictures aren't enough.

BTW- I am a very liberal democrat....but we need jobs to help this economy.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
People piss and moan we are dependant on ME oil. When we do something to ween ourselves off of it they piss and moan.

I think the only thing we can conclude is people like to piss and moan.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
People piss and moan we are dependant on ME oil. When we do something to ween ourselves off of it they piss and moan.

I think the only thing we can conclude is people like to piss and moan.

ANWR has no chance of making a single impact. The best scenario removes 7% of our current damand (2004 demand) in 10 years (2014, ANWR should be producing 800,000 bpd).

Don't count on the Gulf either. The USGS has recently (last 5-8 years) been extremely optimistic about everything. When looking at the curves of discovery, the low (P95 case) simply continues the graph as per the forumla, the mean case (P50) shows a very dramatic up-swing, and the high case shows the graph shooting up (P5).

The USGS also puts out 3 trillion barrels as being recoverable as of this moment, while most industry experts (like ExxonMobil, BP, Aramco) place it at 2 trillion - 2.5 trillion.

http://www.oilcrisis.com/laherrere/usgs2000/
http://www.oildepletion.org/ro...sts/Past_forecasts.htm
http://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/d...the_study_peak_oil.pdf (the graph on the 3rd page is what I am talking about.)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
We don't need it. Majority of the analysis says that it will provide up to 6 months of petroleum supply

They said the same thing about the other oil field up there that has been pumping out about 2 million barrels a day for the past 40 years.

Sometimes analysts are just not correct and have agendas
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
ANWR has no chance of making a single impact. The best scenario removes 7% of our current damand (2004 demand) in 10 years (2014, ANWR should be producing 800,000 bpd).

That is 7% less than we had to buy from them before. That will affect oil prices and it will help to get us off.
If we used your logic then nothing is worth it. Do you think we will find the magical oil field that will produce 50% of our needs or something?
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
^ Prudhoe bay produces about 680,000 bpd down from 1.5 million. ALaska in aggregate produces 2 million bpd.

There are only a handful of fields in the world that produce 2 million bpd. Off the top of my head I think only Ghawar and Cantarell (1st and 2nd largest fields in the world) produce that much or more.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
ANWR has no chance of making a single impact. The best scenario removes 7% of our current damand (2004 demand) in 10 years (2014, ANWR should be producing 800,000 bpd).

That is 7% less than we had to buy from them before. That will affect oil prices and it will help to get us off.
If we used your logic then nothing is worth it. Do you think we will find the magical oil field that will produce 50% of our needs or something?

You didn't quite understand what I am saying.

If Prudhoe Bay produced 800,000 today or next year, which is physically impossible mind you, it would reduce our foreign intake by 7%. However, that day is about 15 years away, because it takes 4-6 years for any oil project to come online, and generally 10 years before maximum production takes hold.

If current trends continue, 1.5% growth per year, we will need 25mbd. Just off that, 800,000 is 3%. BUT, the lower 48 has been declining 3% or so for the last 30 years. Alaska has also been in decline, but that decline has just started. So in reality, we will import even more oil, even with ANWR online.

I'm not saying this isn't worth it, because any bit of oil is worth it, but don't harbor disillusions that this will cure our fuel needs.
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
0
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Haha...sorry, but you still SOUND like an idiot (see, there's a bit of a difference between calling someone an idiot, which I didn't, and saying you sound like one).

Oh, wow, what a come back. Nah-hah-nee-boo-boo. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you're a bright individual on many fronts, but on this you're wrong. And you're getting your panties in a knot because you've found someone who actually has some background in this that is perhaps SMARTER THAN YOU in this subject?!?! My god, burn the bridges!!!

How are you smarter? Dancing around with your jockies on fire doesn't equate to intelligence, let alone class.

Never claimed to have the breath of knowledge of the archives at the Scott Polar Institute, but I do know my way around this topic, and not only via books. All you can come back with is -- I live here <stick tongue out> -- and appear like a juvenile delinquent.


....Yawn....

You say you've studied the Arctic for 20 years. If you love the Artic so much why haven't you visited there? Have you visited Alaska? 20 years is a long time to study a geographic subject that you've never seen.

Have you ever been to Cornwallis Island? Where's Cornwallis Island, bucko? What hamlet is there and why would I mention it?

I'm sitting here surrounded by (an inventory of 40, of just 2 regions) topo maps for a reason, not just because they can line my walls. Can you even use a topo map (GPS is unreliable near the north magnetic pole)?

Yes, I AM A CITY BOY...NOW. Well, if you can call Anchorage a city. I was born in Anchorage, and grew up in Seldovia. Seldovia is NOT a city, it's a VILLAGE of less than 300 people and is only accessible by boat or plane. No, it is not a village in the Arctic Slope, but a village nonetheless. Guess what, we had internet when I was in highschool. The villages on the Arctic slope have internet NOW. Why? BECAUSE OF THE OIL COMPANIES. They helped outfit many of the smaller villages with Satellite internet service a few years ago.

Sell your soul to the company store as long as they give you a Snicker's bar.

Today even the remote hamlets in the Canadian arctic have internet access, but only in public facilities -- satellite calls are expensive and the wait is l-o-n-g. Takes almost a minute to ring up.

What is with this history lesson that you're giving that has nothing to do with the subject? The Natives live in Villages NOW, and they lived in Villages LONG BEFORE THE "WHITE MAN" came. So sorry, that was simply retarded.

To let you know of your stupidity in trying to speak for a community you don't understand, then telling others to shut up when they actually know more than you. Being that you actually was born and raised in Alaska, you should've at least known that the Inuit never lived in villages.

So before claiming others are ignorant, check your own six. And do the world a favor and not begetting more ignorance.

The Native population, just like any population WANT to succeed and provide for their families.

Meanwhile they lament that their kids no longer speak their language, or can hunt. That they take up nasty behaviors (like glue sniffing, a chronic problem in dry hamlets), and leave their lands to make money in cities.

They were once proud people who dependent on no one, but the invaders came and called them savages and "reformed" them. Now they're facing all the societal problems technology and the Western world could bring, most now live on handouts (why oil money is just another welfare check). Meanwhile, their way of life is becoming wiped out, or become a tourist oddity for the bands that has trinkets (like carvings and beadwork) to sell.

Don't talk about them, as you don't understand or even care. All you consider of success is what the Western world thinks it to be.

The problem Natives have is NOT with the oil companies (because they provide jobs and practice Native Hire preference), it's with the lack of education given in the smaller villages, it is the rampant abuse of Alcohol by the Native population, it's the lack of expansion once a child grows up and realizes that he/she is stuck in the village without taking a huge risk by moving to the "big city". The oil companies expansion and providing more jobs will allow the Native population to make great money, gain valuable experience, and allow them to be successful and proud! Can't you understand that?

Read above, for a real history, not one of a city boy still trying to "reform" the "savages".

They don't need handouts, they don't need interference. They need their independence and they need their autonomy.

Before you rant and rave anymore, take a trip to the Arctic Slope and then get back to me. Pictures aren't enough.

I suggest that you live with the Inuit and learn something about them before offering advice.

BTW- I am a very liberal democrat....but we need jobs to help this economy.

BTW, I'm a Traditional conservative, but foreigners can bring problems that hurts communities, their culture and life. So never claim a conservative doesn't understand the plight of people. :)
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
ANWR has no chance of making a single impact. The best scenario removes 7% of our current damand (2004 demand) in 10 years (2014, ANWR should be producing 800,000 bpd).

That is 7% less than we had to buy from them before. That will affect oil prices and it will help to get us off.
If we used your logic then nothing is worth it. Do you think we will find the magical oil field that will produce 50% of our needs or something?

That's just a bandage that just delays the ineviable. More drilling doesn't solve the problem. Americans have to know and adhere to conservation. Natural resources are finite, they can and will run out.

Instead of lining oil companies pockets, I'd rather offer money to companies that seek local (national) alternative fuels. So we'll never become dependent on one fuel source, especially one controlled by other countries. Especially one the burns cleaner and more powerful than fossil fuels.

This is the 21st century. 19th century fuel sources have to go the way of horse travel and buggy whips.

 

DZip

Senior member
Apr 11, 2000
375
0
0
Instead of drilling for oil in Alaska, why not have a progressive tax on gas milage. Let's say that for every mpg under 35 you pay 10 cents per gallon. Example: your car gets 35 mpg, you pay no tax. If you get 30 mpg, you would pay 35 - 30 = 5, 5 X .10 = $.50 per gallon tax. If you get 18 mpg, 35 - 18 = 17, 17 X .10 = $1.70 per gallon tax. This would let everyone make there own choice on what to drive. Big SUV's pay more than a Honda Civic.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,801
126
Originally posted by: DZip
Instead of drilling for oil in Alaska, why not have a progressive tax on gas milage. Let's say that for every mpg under 35 you pay 10 cents per gallon. Example: your car gets 35 mpg, you pay no tax. If you get 30 mpg, you would pay 35 - 30 = 5, 5 X .10 = $.50 per gallon tax. If you get 18 mpg, 35 - 18 = 17, 17 X .10 = $1.70 per gallon tax. This would let everyone make there own choice on what to drive. Big SUV's pay more than a Honda Civic.

That kind of system would be impossible to maintain. There would be widesspread cheating and any enforcement structure would be overwhelmed. A Car Sales Tax based on the same criteria might work though.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: Terumo
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet

Haha...sorry, but you still SOUND like an idiot (see, there's a bit of a difference between calling someone an idiot, which I didn't, and saying you sound like one).

Oh, wow, what a come back. Nah-hah-nee-boo-boo. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you're a bright individual on many fronts, but on this you're wrong. And you're getting your panties in a knot because you've found someone who actually has some background in this that is perhaps SMARTER THAN YOU in this subject?!?! My god, burn the bridges!!!

How are you smarter? Dancing around with your jockies on fire doesn't equate to intelligence, let alone class.

Never claimed to have the breath of knowledge of the archives at the Scott Polar Institute, but I do know my way around this topic, and not only via books. All you can come back with is -- I live here <stick tongue out> -- and appear like a juvenile delinquent.


....Yawn....

You say you've studied the Arctic for 20 years. If you love the Artic so much why haven't you visited there? Have you visited Alaska? 20 years is a long time to study a geographic subject that you've never seen.

Have you ever been to Cornwallis Island? Where's Cornwallis Island, bucko? What hamlet is there and why would I mention it?

I'm sitting here surrounded by (an inventory of 40, of just 2 regions) topo maps for a reason, not just because they can line my walls. Can you even use a topo map (GPS is unreliable near the north magnetic pole)?

Yes, I AM A CITY BOY...NOW. Well, if you can call Anchorage a city. I was born in Anchorage, and grew up in Seldovia. Seldovia is NOT a city, it's a VILLAGE of less than 300 people and is only accessible by boat or plane. No, it is not a village in the Arctic Slope, but a village nonetheless. Guess what, we had internet when I was in highschool. The villages on the Arctic slope have internet NOW. Why? BECAUSE OF THE OIL COMPANIES. They helped outfit many of the smaller villages with Satellite internet service a few years ago.

Sell your soul to the company store as long as they give you a Snicker's bar.

Today even the remote hamlets in the Canadian arctic have internet access, but only in public facilities -- satellite calls are expensive and the wait is l-o-n-g. Takes almost a minute to ring up.

What is with this history lesson that you're giving that has nothing to do with the subject? The Natives live in Villages NOW, and they lived in Villages LONG BEFORE THE "WHITE MAN" came. So sorry, that was simply retarded.

To let you know of your stupidity in trying to speak for a community you don't understand, then telling others to shut up when they actually know more than you. Being that you actually was born and raised in Alaska, you should've at least known that the Inuit never lived in villages.

So before claiming others are ignorant, check your own six. And do the world a favor and not begetting more ignorance.

The Native population, just like any population WANT to succeed and provide for their families.

Meanwhile they lament that their kids no longer speak their language, or can hunt. That they take up nasty behaviors (like glue sniffing, a chronic problem in dry hamlets), and leave their lands to make money in cities.

They were once proud people who dependent on no one, but the invaders came and called them savages and "reformed" them. Now they're facing all the societal problems technology and the Western world could bring, most now live on handouts (why oil money is just another welfare check). Meanwhile, their way of life is becoming wiped out, or become a tourist oddity for the bands that has trinkets (like carvings and beadwork) to sell.

Don't talk about them, as you don't understand or even care. All you consider of success is what the Western world thinks it to be.

The problem Natives have is NOT with the oil companies (because they provide jobs and practice Native Hire preference), it's with the lack of education given in the smaller villages, it is the rampant abuse of Alcohol by the Native population, it's the lack of expansion once a child grows up and realizes that he/she is stuck in the village without taking a huge risk by moving to the "big city". The oil companies expansion and providing more jobs will allow the Native population to make great money, gain valuable experience, and allow them to be successful and proud! Can't you understand that?

Read above, for a real history, not one of a city boy still trying to "reform" the "savages".

They don't need handouts, they don't need interference. They need their independence and they need their autonomy.

Before you rant and rave anymore, take a trip to the Arctic Slope and then get back to me. Pictures aren't enough.

I suggest that you live with the Inuit and learn something about them before offering advice.

BTW- I am a very liberal democrat....but we need jobs to help this economy.

BTW, I'm a Traditional conservative, but foreigners can bring problems that hurts communities, their culture and life. So never claim a conservative doesn't understand the plight of people. :)

Ok, NOW you're an idiot. I can't believe I'm wasting my time with you by replying, but I will do so anyway.

NOTHING you said had anything remotley to do with what my point was. Instead of attacking what I think you continue to attack me, and you're calling me a juvenile? I have every right to post my views and opinoins and dispute yours. If you said something worth while I would have no problem giving you credit, and even giving you props if you corrected something that I said, but you haven't, and by the sounds of it you won't. You continue to dance around the issues. I personally find it hilarious.

That I live with the "Inuit". Well, I'll tell you this again...one last time...I'm not "inuit"...I'm ALEUT you son of a bitch. Half my family is native...my entire community does not want their "old way of life" back...they want to prosper in the current one.

Yes, I agree, the drug abuse and alcohol abuse IS a problem, like I said before. But the Native people need to take some personal responsibility on that, not blame on the white people because they were the ones who brought it to the communities. Sorry, I worked damn hard to get where I am and I am a pillar of the native community. I have no sympathy for the ones who can't do it. With all the help we can get from our Native corporations it shouldn't be any damn problem for ANY native to be successful. It takes drive, it takes determination, it takes a willingness to learn and a willingness to say NO to temptation. I know it's damn tough for many of them to say no to drugs and alcohol, but I've seen firsthand the recovery of many form drug addicts and alcoholics...and actually make something of themselves.

Again, don't try to school me on a topic that I know about, because I will burn you on a stake. You can preach on about the history from a book but I'll EDUCATE YOU on the REAL FVICKING WORLD.

DONE.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: DZip
Instead of drilling for oil in Alaska, why not have a progressive tax on gas milage. Let's say that for every mpg under 35 you pay 10 cents per gallon. Example: your car gets 35 mpg, you pay no tax. If you get 30 mpg, you would pay 35 - 30 = 5, 5 X .10 = $.50 per gallon tax. If you get 18 mpg, 35 - 18 = 17, 17 X .10 = $1.70 per gallon tax. This would let everyone make there own choice on what to drive. Big SUV's pay more than a Honda Civic.

That kind of system would be impossible to maintain. There would be widesspread cheating and any enforcement structure would be overwhelmed. A Car Sales Tax based on the same criteria might work though.



or just a use a simple gas tax. Use more, pay more. Milage is one factor in the equation.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
oil pipeline in the middle of kentucky ruptured today spilling contents into a nearby river.

this type of thing won't happen in alaska. the big oil companies promise. unless the ship captain is drunk...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
oil pipeline in the middle of kentucky ruptured today spilling contents into a nearby river.

this type of thing won't happen in alaska. the big oil companies promise. unless the ship captain is drunk...



are you giving up your car anytime soon?
 

Terumo

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
575
0
0
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Ok, NOW you're an idiot. I can't believe I'm wasting my time with you by replying, but I will do so anyway.

Hey, if you're wasting your time and dime arguing for arguing sake, take personal responsibility for being stupid in doing so. :)

NOTHING you said had anything remotley to do with what my point was. Instead of attacking what I think you continue to attack me, and you're calling me a juvenile? I have every right to post my views and opinoins and dispute yours.

After telling folks to SHUT UP?? lololol

Do you work for the Bush Administration by chance??

If you said something worth while

I must be the center of your world since you keep back replying. Must be lonely even in Anchorage. :/

I would have no problem giving you credit, and even giving you props if you corrected something that I said, but you haven't, and by the sounds of it you won't. You continue to dance around the issues. I personally find it hilarious.

What's hilarious is that you keep coming back for second helpings of what you're complaining about, but refusing to take your own advice about personal responsibility.

So hypocrite, instead of trying to speak for an entire people, start owning up to your own responsibilities??

That I live with the "Inuit". Well, I'll tell you this again...one last time...I'm not "inuit"...I'm ALEUT you son of a bitch. Half my family is native...my entire community does not want their "old way of life" back...they want to prosper in the current one.

I'm a woman (dang, even an avatar doesn't clue you in). And let's not get into which woman is a bitch, because your feelings may get hurt.

Yes, I agree, the drug abuse and alcohol abuse IS a problem, like I said before. But the Native people need to take some personal responsibility on that, not blame on the white people because they were the ones who brought it to the communities.

Personal responsibility is a two way street. Did you know that? Did you know what hand outs do to native communities, or did you escape it and look down your nose at those who still on the dole?

Tough talk, but you asked for it.

Your problem is that you thought you were unique, and probably never thought you'd meet someone who'd know about the Inuit who'd live in the region in question. Best that you read more carefully. Furthermore, I'm Japanese-American but I don't make the mistake in speaking for all Japanese-Americans, let alone all Asians. That's where you seem to over stepped yourself.

Sorry, I worked damn hard to get where I am and I am a pillar of the native community.

By who and what standards? Who do you judge your success upon? How much money is in your wallet, or how many seals you managed to bring home? Which is more successful?

I have no sympathy for the ones who can't do it.

Ah, you did turn your back on your people and looking down your nose on them. You're fully Westernized, and probably even prefer the lifestyle and diet too.

So when you become diabetic in a couple years, you'll just claim it's human nature, right? Totally unaware of the biochemical differences within you that make you prone to it.

With all the help we can get from our Native corporations it shouldn't be any damn problem for ANY native to be successful. It takes drive, it takes determination, it takes a willingness to learn and a willingness to say NO to temptation. I know it's damn tough for many of them to say no to drugs and alcohol, but I've seen firsthand the recovery of many form drug addicts and alcoholics...and actually make something of themselves.

Do you even understand why they turn to alcohol and drugs? Not because of will power, not because it's available it's because like many of the last to enter North America their bodies can't process the alcohol and drugs -- their liver and stomach is missing that enzyme responsible in processing each.

So, Einstein sit down and actually LEARN something.

Don't take the Western view as gospel, Nut, it'll kill not only you your people quicker.

Again, don't try to school me on a topic that I know about, because I will burn you on a stake. You can preach on about the history from a book but I'll EDUCATE YOU on the REAL FVICKING WORLD.

DONE.

I'm still here, Nut. But please do keep posting. It's illuminating how much self-hatred is still in the world. And how much you don't even know about yourself.

Yes, education is the key, so try listening.