U.S. No Health Care 10-15 GOP based Medicare plan squanders $15 billion in 2007

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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
This bill has about as much chance of passing as a bill that would outlaw outlaw companies from having employees outside the USA lol
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: blackangst1
This bill has about as much chance of passing as a bill that would outlaw outlaw companies from having employees outside the USA lol

Thats John Edwards. If you remember, it was Clinton who promoted Globalization. He's the guy who broke party ranks to promote free trade.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
This bill has about as much chance of passing as a bill that would outlaw outlaw companies from having employees outside the USA lol

Thats John Edwards. If you remember, it was Clinton who promoted Globalization. He's the guy who broke party ranks to promote free trade.

Aye. NAFTA anyone?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
This bill has about as much chance of passing as a bill that would outlaw outlaw companies from having employees outside the USA lol

Thats John Edwards. If you remember, it was Clinton who promoted Globalization. He's the guy who broke party ranks to promote free trade.

Aye. NAFTA anyone?

Deflect and spin Deflect and spin Deflect and spin Deflect and spin
 

Worlocked

Senior member
Nov 9, 2005
289
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
So youre saying being self-insured is a bad financial decision? If so, you are a fool.

Whipper? don?t forget the fact that many healthy single people, like myself, are choosing NOT to get healthcare because the costs are too high.

I have not been to the Doctor or hospital in over 15 years so I decided to gamble that I will continue to be healthy rather than throw about money week after week just incase I do get sick.

This creates a problem because it is the healthy people who do not use their insurance that subsidize the sick people that over use their insurance.

He's talking about not having insurance at all. None, zero, zilch... Private, public or otherwise.

Did you mean to quote him and not me or what? :confused:
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Worlocked
Originally posted by: blackangst1
So youre saying being self-insured is a bad financial decision? If so, you are a fool.

Whipper? don?t forget the fact that many healthy single people, like myself, are choosing NOT to get healthcare because the costs are too high.

I have not been to the Doctor or hospital in over 15 years so I decided to gamble that I will continue to be healthy rather than throw about money week after week just incase I do get sick.

This creates a problem because it is the healthy people who do not use their insurance that subsidize the sick people that over use their insurance.

He's talking about not having insurance at all. None, zero, zilch... Private, public or otherwise.

Did you mean to quote him and not me or what? :confused:

Yes I meant to quote your little jab with
Ahhhh, using the Republican "pray you don't get sick" health plan like a good little puppet
. I think self insurance is a very smart idea. I was complimenting him on his wise financial choice, as well as posing that question for people that think he's an idoit. Thats all :)
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
The New York senator said her plan would require every American to purchase insurance, either through their jobs or through a program modeled on Medicare or the federal employee health plan. Businesses would be required to offer insurance or contribute to a pool that would expand coverage. Individuals and small businesses would be offered tax credits to make insurance more affordable.

How are they going to force someone to purchase insurance.

Right now, insurance for someone in their 50s might be $400-500 month for self and spouse.

Now how would the so called credits make that more affordable?

What is the level of affordability $200/month, $300/month ...

And what level of coverage, deductibles, etc.

Details, not hot air & promises please?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
The New York senator said her plan would require every American to purchase insurance, either through their jobs or through a program modeled on Medicare or the federal employee health plan. Businesses would be required to offer insurance or contribute to a pool that would expand coverage. Individuals and small businesses would be offered tax credits to make insurance more affordable.

How are they going to force someone to purchase insurance.

Right now, insurance for someone in their 50s might be $400-500 month for self and spouse.

Now how would the so called credits make that more affordable?

What is the level of affordability $200/month, $300/month ...

And what level of coverage, deductibles, etc.

Details, not hot air & promises please?

She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
The New York senator said her plan would require every American to purchase insurance, either through their jobs or through a program modeled on Medicare or the federal employee health plan. Businesses would be required to offer insurance or contribute to a pool that would expand coverage. Individuals and small businesses would be offered tax credits to make insurance more affordable.

How are they going to force someone to purchase insurance.

Right now, insurance for someone in their 50s might be $400-500 month for self and spouse.

Now how would the so called credits make that more affordable?

What is the level of affordability $200/month, $300/month ...

And what level of coverage, deductibles, etc.

Details, not hot air & promises please?

She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: senseamp
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?

Absolutely

I am for whatever it takes for every American to have their right to health care.

It's not a priviledge contrary to the rich and Republican belief.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: senseamp
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?

Absolutely

I am for whatever it takes for every American to have their right to health care.

It's not a priviledge contrary to the rich and Republican belief.

And what exactly makes health insurance a "right"? The constitution? bwahahahaha
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: senseamp
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?

Absolutely

I am for whatever it takes for every American to have their right to health care.

It's not a priviledge contrary to the rich and Republican belief.

And what exactly makes health insurance a "right"? The constitution? bwahahahaha

We can make it a right. Just like we made Medicare a right for anyone over the age of 65, we can make health insurance a right for anyone, period. There are states without constitutions where healthcare is a right because the society decides it is a right.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: senseamp
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?

Absolutely

I am for whatever it takes for every American to have their right to health care.

It's not a priviledge contrary to the rich and Republican belief.

And what exactly makes health insurance a "right"? The constitution? bwahahahaha

We can make it a right. Just like we made Medicare a right for anyone over the age of 65, we can make health insurance a right for anyone, period. There are states without constitutions where healthcare is a right because the society decides it is a right.

Well, OK...you are...well...right.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
We can make it a right. Just like we made Medicare a right for anyone over the age of 65, we can make health insurance a right for anyone, period. There are states without constitutions where healthcare is a right because the society decides it is a right.

You are obviously a young liberal with little real world experience.

Perhaps you should take a closer look at Medicare. It doesn't pay for diddly squat. And any Senior stuck with it can tell you.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: senseamp
I would definitely support that. You don't obtain health insurance, no refund for you, sorry. If you don't obtain insurance, and then you get sick and can't afford to pay for treatment, then go to ER and don't can't pay the bill, you are either sticking the government or other patients with the cost of your treatment being passed on to that. So the government should be able to not give you a tax refund and use that money to help hospitals stuck with unpaid bills from people like you.
This HillaryCare is as good as you rightwingers are ever going to get it. She leaves insurance industry in place and lets you obtain your own coverage, with the government providing incentives. You can fight it all you want, but the result is going to be the current system will collapse under its own weight, and then you really will have single payer universal healthcare you are so afraid of.

Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
She said one of the mechanisms would be that you do not get a tax refund if you are non-compliant as well as other options.

And this is something you support Dave?

Absolutely

I am for whatever it takes for every American to have their right to health care.

It's not a priviledge contrary to the rich and Republican belief.

And what exactly makes health insurance a "right"? The constitution? bwahahahaha

Well thanks for being open on how much you distain America and the Constitution.

What makes you believe Health Care is not a right?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
We can make it a right. Just like we made Medicare a right for anyone over the age of 65, we can make health insurance a right for anyone, period. There are states without constitutions where healthcare is a right because the society decides it is a right.

You are obviously a young liberal with little real world experience.

Perhaps you should take a closer look at Medicare. It doesn't pay for diddly squat. And any Senior stuck with it can tell you.

So you want Medicare to pay for more?
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
So you want Medicare to pay for more?

No. I would eliminate it completely.

It is a perfect example of why the government SHOULD NOT be running the health care system.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
So you want Medicare to pay for more?

No. I would eliminate it completely.

It is a perfect example of why the government SHOULD NOT be running the health care system.

How would seniors afford health coverage without medicare?
Healthy working adults can't afford it.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
How would seniors afford health coverage without medicare?
Healthy working adults can't afford it.

I don't know the answer to that. The poorest of the poor are inherently at a disadvantage across the entire spectrum. I do know that Medicare is ripe with fraud and mismanagement. Go take a look at how many doctors no longer accept patients with Medicare (or state-issued Medicaid, now) because the reimbursement rates simply don't allow them to stay in business.
These rates are considerably less than a private insurer pays out. To add insult to misery, we keep dumping billions in to the coffers for Medicare, with no apparent return.

Would you really trust the government to administer a nationwide health care solution? And even more importantly, do you want Hillary mandating YOUR medical choices? Or Edwards telling you when to get that exam?

Universal Health Care is not the answer to the problem. We simply cannot entrust such a responsibility to a body that has proven itself over, and over again to be incapable of managing and administering such programs.

For those who still tout UHC - let us have a discussion about the doctors. No one ever talks about this. A UHC system inevitably forces them to accept much lower salaries and payouts for their services. This obviously leads to a degradation in the quality of both the skilled people working, and the quality of their work. You simply can't ask someone to devote 12 years of their life and several hundred thousand dollars, and then tell them to take $70,000 a year. Discuss...
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: Pabster
Originally posted by: senseamp
How would seniors afford health coverage without medicare?
Healthy working adults can't afford it.

I don't know the answer to that.
It doesn't surprise me.
Yet you propose eliminating it completely without coming up with any solution on how seniors would be able to afford health care without it. Typical rightwing ideologue approach. All you do is criticize government solutions, but you don't come up with your own solutions. Because there is no private sector solution. Most old seniors are simply not a good health insurance risk, and they don't have the income to pay for insurance out of pocket. The only way most of them can have health coverage is if the government provides it.
The poorest of the poor are inherently at a disadvantage across the entire spectrum. I do know that Medicare is ripe with fraud and mismanagement. Go take a look at how many doctors no longer accept patients with Medicare (or state-issued Medicaid, now) because the reimbursement rates simply don't allow them to stay in business.
These rates are considerably less than a private insurer pays out. To add insult to misery, we keep dumping billions in to the coffers for Medicare, with no apparent return.
No apparent return? It is allowing seniors to get medical care. I am not sure what return you were expecting.
Would you really trust the government to administer a nationwide health care solution? And even more importantly, do you want Hillary mandating YOUR medical choices? Or Edwards telling you when to get that exam?
Hillary is not mandating your choices. She is just saying you need to get insurance, your choice which one.
Also, she is not mandating, she is incentivising.
Universal Health Care is not the answer to the problem. We simply cannot entrust such a responsibility to a body that has proven itself over, and over again to be incapable of managing and administering such programs.
Good, then come up with an alternative solution. We see universal healthcare models working all over the world, while our model is broken by design. It's only a matter of time before it becomes so unfordable that we'll have to dump it because it won't serve most people's needs.
For those who still tout UHC - let us have a discussion about the doctors. No one ever talks about this. A UHC system inevitably forces them to accept much lower salaries and payouts for their services. This obviously leads to a degradation in the quality of both the skilled people working, and the quality of their work. You simply can't ask someone to devote 12 years of their life and several hundred thousand dollars, and then tell them to take $70,000 a year. Discuss...

How do you come up with this number? Any system will have to pay enough to attract sufficient number of doctors into it. Also, last I checked the goal is to build a health care system, not a doctor care system, or insurance company care system. They can take care of themselves.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,986
1
0
Originally posted by: senseamp
Hillary is not mandating your choices. She is just saying you need to get insurance, your choice which one.
Also, she is not mandating, she is incentivising.

Health care being "required" is called mandated.

Good, then come up with an alternative solution. We see universal healthcare models working all over the world, while our model is broken by design. It's only a matter of time before it becomes so unfordable that we'll have to dump it because it won't serve most people's needs.

I disagree with the bolded part. I think you can find a good number of examples (recent, in fact) of universal health care systems going amuck. Why is it that an ever-growing number of Canadians, for example, are choosing to pay their own way and get their care here in the U.S.? I have seen no conclusive proof that UHC is "working" anywhere. What I see are high taxes and a large number of horror stories. The fact is, the U.S. has the greatest health care system in the world. People come from all these great UHC countries to get care here. Why, if those systems are so great?

How do you come up with this number? Any system will have to pay enough to attract sufficient number of doctors into it. Also, last I checked the goal is to build a health care system, not a doctor care system, or insurance company care system. They can take care of themselves.

Yep. Fvck the doctors. I pity the day you need a life saving operation...