U.S. lawmakers launch push to repeal NAFTA

[Steeplerot]

In my opinion this is a win win on many levels.
1. We get a less exploitative trade partnership with our neighbors which in the end will benefit all. (and reduction of the hordes of immigrants heading north fleeing economic NAFTA carpetbombing is a win for everyone most of all for people who do not need to risk their lives and families coming up here to work)
2. Hate Comrade Chavez? Well the evil empire the USA repealing its own neo-Liberal stranglehold cuts Chavez's propaganda off at the knees. With no neo-liberal boogeyman it is only a matter of time.
3. More American jobs. Better quality goods as things here are regulated stricter.
4. Less fuel used on transporting domestic goods.



A small group of U.S. lawmakers unveiled legislation on Thursday to withdraw from the North American Free Trade Agreement in the latest sign of congressional disillusionment with free-trade deals.
Link

 

[Matthiasa]

It's only really going to mean more expensive goods, as its still cheaper to make stuff elsewhere just not as cheap.
Basically, it's what the unions want and so are getting, but it doesn't help them at all. Though people who often fail to see the big picture and understand how this stuff works, will also support it. It will not help the consumers, it also wont help business, since it will still be cheaper to make stuff elsewhere. Another side effect will be reduced exports, due to our goods being expensive to begin with and this making them even more so.

 

[Steeplerot]

It's only really going to mean more expensive goods, as its still cheaper to make stuff elsewhere just not as cheap.
Basically, it's what the unions want and so are getting, but it doesn't help them at all. Though people who often fail to see the big picture and understand how this stuff works, will also support it. It will not help the consumers, it also wont help business, since it will still be cheaper to make stuff elsewhere. Another side effect will be reduced exports, due to our goods being expensive to begin with and this making them even more so.

You get what you pay for. The race to the bottom is not a long term strategy.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

repealing nafta doesn't mean that everything will all of a sudden be hit with sky high duties. As long as reasonable duties are assessed the right items and duty free status remains on others then I think it could be good.

 

[Matthiasa]

You get what you pay for. The race to the bottom is not a long term strategy.

Nor is to much protectionism.
Is it better to make 20% more and things being 20%+ more expensive, or to make 20% less and things being 20%+ cheaper?

Trade(goods and ideas) is one of the main way of growing an economy, the other big one being conquering other nations. Only one of which is still viable given the current global politics.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Nor is to much protectionism.
Is it better to make 20% more and things being 20%+ more expensive, or to make 20% less and things being 20%+ cheaper?

The costs vs. benefits of NAFTA have clearly not been 1:1 for the vast majority of Americans.

 

[brandonb]

It seems like a good idea, but I'd have to know more about NAFTA to give the repeal a seal of approval, but so far my opinion leans with Red.

 

[JS80]

You get what you pay for. The race to the bottom is not a long term strategy.

You're the one racing to the bottom. You want Americans to make the cheap shit the Mexicans were making.

 

[Matthiasa]

The costs vs. benefits of NAFTA have clearly not been 1:1 for the vast majority of Americans.

Depends on what they were doing, Its been good for those not manufacturing the goods. Theres more money to be made in design and knowledge based industries then manufacturing. As the average American is not in manufacturing it could be argue that it has most likely helped more then it hurt.

Those that have been hurt are quite vocal though, so I could see why it would seem that that is not the case.

Looks like unemployment (not including the current recession) had also fallen from where it was when it was signed as well.

 

[Steeplerot]

You're the one racing to the bottom. You want Americans to make the cheap shit the Mexicans were making.

I know, like back when we had manufacturing jobs making that "cheap shit" you could raise a family. And produce high quality domestic goods not full of arsenic.

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. Fingering NAFTA is a misdirection play. American capitalists are offshoring the jobs they sent to Mexico to China and India... Cutting employment in Mexico just increases the influx of illegal labor into the US, and American business will definitely hire 'em, bet on that.

Canadians' only competitive advantage is their healthcare system... imagine that...

It's not smart to beggar thy neighbor, particularly when they're your closest neighbors...

 

[Anarchist420]

NAFTA sucks because it's regulated trade. I hope they repeal that piece-of-shit.

 

[Zebo]

I've adopted the corporate economist marginalized line on this since I was aware, if we chose to "compete" with slave wage nations, police state nations, and cast systems we can expect the same in order to be competitive - only thing that staved it off was 42 Trillion in debt we have accumulated since 1980. Party is over. Prepare.

 

[Zebo]

Hows that free trade working for ya? Works great for some as you can see, mainly owners and stockholders of those who take American jobs overseas. No so good for 95% of us.

 

[glenn1]

U.S. lawmakers launch push to repeal NAFTA

Fine with me. I guess we need some more unskilled labor positions in dynamic growth industries like textiles, agriculture, and slaughterhouses. Plus, I guess we're running out of folks to fire in layoffs, so it might be handy to have a few around to practice handing out pink slips to when we replace their jobs with automation.

 

[brencat]

I love when guys like Zebo show charts of income growth differentials. We are a lot more educated society today than 25+ years ago. As a greater % of us go to college and are taught about investing and learn valuable skills, of course the income differential is going to widen between the most qualified and the average/least qualified. Back then, even rich people kept their money in the bank. Now most invest in the stock market and the returns have been spectacular over some of the last 3 decades if you timed it right.

Sorry, but a high school diploma is just not going to cut it anymore. If that's all you aspire to be, then you will be left behind income-wise, it's just that simple. Because the Chinese and the Indians are coming to get us.

I can hear the response..."but not all of us can go to college". Fine, I accept that. But don't complain then about why a "top 1%er" with an MBA is making $300k+ and you're only making $30k. Go to school, work your ass off, and maybe just maybe, you too can share in some of that upside.

Tell me...is it really a smart idea though to enact tariffs and protectionist policies (like repealing Nafta) that raise the cost of goods here, give consumers much less choice, and elevate the equilibrium "full employment" level from 5% to 7-8% or higher like Europe for the past 40+ years? Yeah, great if you have a job, but not so great if you don't under that scenario.

 

[ProfJohn]

I know, like back when we had manufacturing jobs making that "cheap shit" you could raise a family. And produce high quality domestic goods not full of arsenic.

And back then we had stay at home moms, one car, one small tv and our houses were 50% smaller than today etc etc etc etc etc etc forever.


BTW we still manufacture more stuff than any other economy in the world.

You really need an education into how economics works. It makes no sense to pay someone $20 an hour to build toys for kids when someone else will build it for $5 an hour. So you take that higher payed person and you put him to work doing higher skilled work that produces more than simple toy building.

That is why our economy and standard of living today is MUCH higher than it was 40 years ago.

 

[sandorski]

Heh. Fingering NAFTA is a misdirection play. American capitalists are offshoring the jobs they sent to Mexico to China and India... Cutting employment in Mexico just increases the influx of illegal labor into the US, and American business will definitely hire 'em, bet on that.

Canadians' only competitive advantage is their healthcare system... imagine that...

It's not smart to beggar thy neighbor, particularly when they're your closest neighbors...

This. China is where the Trade issues lie, not NAFTA. How Chavez got into the conversation I don't understand. NAFTA consists of Canada, the US, and Mexico.

NAFTA is clearly being used as a Scapegoat.

 

[Zebo]

I love when guys like Zebo show charts of income growth differentials. We are a lot more educated society today than 25+ years ago. As a greater % of us go to college and are taught about investing and learn valuable skills, of course the income differential is going to widen between the most qualified and the average/least qualified. Back then, even rich people kept their money in the bank. Now most invest in the stock market and the returns have been spectacular over some of the last 3 decades if you timed it right.

Sorry, but a high school diploma is just not going to cut it anymore. If that's all you aspire to be, then you will be left behind income-wise, it's just that simple. Because the Chinese and the Indians are coming to get us.

I can hear the response..."but not all of us can go to college". Fine, I accept that. But don't complain then about why a "top 1%er" with an MBA is making $300k+ and you're only making $30k. Go to school, work your ass off, and maybe just maybe, you too can share in some of that upside.

Tell me...is it really a smart idea though to enact tariffs and protectionist policies (like repealing Nafta) that raise the cost of goods here, give consumers much less choice, and elevate the equilibrium "full employment" level from 5% to 7-8% or higher like Europe for the past 40+ years? Yeah, great if you have a job, but not so great if you don't under that scenario.

Nothing you said is news to me like I said in previous post about having a caste system. We'll get it alright. You see it already - The Job Movers (IBs and applicable corps) already have immense liquid wealth, giving them disproportionate political muscle and reciprocally middle class opponents has their power totally diminished due to wage collapse and barley getting by. It will only get worse. Eventually, after teachers are fired, pensions nixed, etc police will be corrupt like our politicians since their employment and the wages and benefits they collect must inexorably track to the tax base which will be none without a solid productive wages.

With 100 million people totally dependent on the government in this country I suggest you go watch an Hour or two of 'LA Riots' footage on YouTube for just what happens when they get cut off which is inevitable as soon as those loaning the treasury money decide that the credit risk has worsened enough to demand more coupon. There will be no warning either ask Argentina or Iceland. Could happen tomorrow.

It doesn't have to be this way..I've discussed this before at length but basically it comes down to how we define the social contract. Go back to the 1960's in taxes, credit, tariffs, and business law or totally lasse fair.

 

[dmcowen674]

NAFTA and the Global Economy bullshit has been proven to be a scam just as I said it was when they first started this shit years ago.

Dave is right again.

I know that kills so many in here

 

[cubeless]

they got some schmoe from ms to front it? i guess the mexican jobs are probably a move up for most of his constituents, if they'd even be willing to work...

and pelosi looks like she's squeezing one off in that pic... is she on the bill, too? seems like a brilliant plan to lose the mexican vote...

i hope that the $$$ for the border wall is hidden in that bill somewhere, because wtf do you think the mexicans who lose their jobs down there are going to do???

pool starts now - i bet a nickel that this dies a silent death in a couple weeks... i agree with the idea that i'ts a smokescreen to get people talking about something else while they shove hc through...

 

[yllus]

Hahaha, go for it, guys. Your neighbours to the north are going to truly enjoy renegotiating our sweetheart oil deal with you if a repeal goes through.

 

[daishi5]

So, if repealing free trade between America, Mexico, and Canada is good for America, would Illinois repealing free trade between Illinois, Iowa and Indiana be good for Illinois? Could we help the economies of all the states by throwing up tariffs and trade barriers at the state lines?

As Sandorski said, China is the issue, not NAFTA.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

That is why our economy and standard of living today is MUCH higher than it was 40 years ago.

False.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

 

[Trianon]

I love when guys like Zebo show charts of income growth differentials. We are a lot more educated society today than 25+ years ago. As a greater % of us go to college and are taught about investing and learn valuable skills, of course the income differential is going to widen between the most qualified and the average/least qualified. Back then, even rich people kept their money in the bank. Now most invest in the stock market and the returns have been spectacular over some of the last 3 decades if you timed it right.

Sorry, but a high school diploma is just not going to cut it anymore. If that's all you aspire to be, then you will be left behind income-wise, it's just that simple. Because the Chinese and the Indians are coming to get us.

I can hear the response..."but not all of us can go to college". Fine, I accept that. But don't complain then about why a "top 1%er" with an MBA is making $300k+ and you're only making $30k. Go to school, work your ass off, and maybe just maybe, you too can share in some of that upside.

Tell me...is it really a smart idea though to enact tariffs and protectionist policies (like repealing Nafta) that raise the cost of goods here, give consumers much less choice, and elevate the equilibrium "full employment" level from 5% to 7-8% or higher like Europe for the past 40+ years? Yeah, great if you have a job, but not so great if you don't under that scenario.

That "everyone should go to college" bs is getting old, if that was true, we would not have bunch of BAs sitting around with their diplomas doing nothing, indocrinated with "you went to college, you deserve a job" entitlement mantra. In reality research has shown that only top 10% of hogh school graduates are able to absorb higher education information on requitred level, the rest are just dragging down the curve. Oh, and the MBAs, don't even get me started, just as useless as lawyers from practical standpoint, indocrinted into certain thinking pattern, it's a pass to "good old boys" club.
From press conference of Jim Rogers in Miami about practicality of MBA:
"One of the questions from the audience pertained to getting an MBA. Jim’s response in so many words was that it would be a complete waste of money and time. He suggested traveling around the world would be a more valuable experience. He went as far to say that sitting in a hot tub in Boston one could learn more than going to some of the prestigious universities there."