U.S. in secret talks with Iraq insurgents

[Steeplerot]

U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported today, citing Pentagon and other sources.

The Bush administration has said it would not negotiate with Iraqi fighters and there is no authorized dialogue but the U.S. is having "back-channel" communications with certain insurgents, unidentified Washington and Iraqi sources told the magazine.

The magazine cited a secret meeting between two members of the U.S. military and an Iraqi negotiator, a middle-aged former member of Saddam Hussein's regime and the senior representative of what he called the nationalist insurgency.

A U.S. officer tried to get names of other insurgent leaders while the Iraqi complained the new Shi'ite-dominated government was being controlled by Iran, according to an account of the meeting provided by the Iraqi negotiator.

"We are ready to work with you," the Iraqi negotiator said, according to Time.

Linkage



Do you think there really is a representive that can be negotiated with that represent the insurgents?
Is this defeat? Or a chance to stop the killing of Iraqis and Americans?
How shaky ground do you think our negotiations will be on becasue of our heavy-handed approach to the occupation?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported today, citing Pentagon and other sources.

The Bush administration has said it would not negotiate with Iraqi fighters and there is no authorized dialogue but the U.S. is having "back-channel" communications with certain insurgents, unidentified Washington and Iraqi sources told the magazine.

The magazine cited a secret meeting between two members of the U.S. military and an Iraqi negotiator, a middle-aged former member of Saddam Hussein's regime and the senior representative of what he called the nationalist insurgency.

A U.S. officer tried to get names of other insurgent leaders while the Iraqi complained the new Shi'ite-dominated government was being controlled by Iran, according to an account of the meeting provided by the Iraqi negotiator.

"We are ready to work with you," the Iraqi negotiator said, according to Time.

Linkage



Do you think there really is a representive that can be negotiated with that represent the insurgents?
Is this defeat? Or a chance to stop the killing of Iraqis and Americans?
How shaky ground do you think our negotiations will be on becasue of our heavy-handed approach to the occupation?

No, No, Would there be a different reason for us to attempt this(if it is infact true)?
As to your fourth little question - I don't agree with your premise. You are projecting your warped view on people with that question. Our approach to the occupation is not "heavy-handed" - but you can think whatever you wish.

CsG

 

[Steeplerot]

Our closest ally the brits have complained about our heavy handedness time and time again.
Leveling fallujah is not a bit extreme?
So what would be heavy handed to you? us nuking them? Genocide of all iraqi people to stop the insurgents?
I am being serious here CaD.
The world has critsized us for years now for our treatment of the Iraqis, what is going too far to you?

US tactics 'heavy handed' says Straw memo
British Military Critical of US Troops' Heavy-Handed Style with Civilians
Iraq: U.S. Troops Accused Of Being Heavy-Handed In Their Search For Terrorists
US 'too heavy-handed', says Foreign Office memo

Seriously are you in denial CaD? Do you read the news?

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Our closest ally the brits have complained about our heavy handedness time and time again.
Leveling fallujah is not a bit extreme?
So what would be heavy handed to you? us nuking them? Genocide of all iraqi people to stop the insurgents?
I am being serious here CaD.
The world has critsized us for years now for our treatment of the Iraqis, what is going too far to you?

US tactics 'heavy handed' says Straw memo
British Military Critical of US Troops' Heavy-Handed Style with Civilians
Iraq: U.S. Troops Accused Of Being Heavy-Handed In Their Search For Terrorists
US 'too heavy-handed', says Foreign Office memo

Seriously are you in denial CaD? Do you read the news?

There is no knowing whether US tactics and treatment is truly heavy handed or not.

I don't remember a legit news source ever carry that story although I do remember reading about it. Assuming the memo existed and was, in fact, legit...

I would ask the following questions to those who are critical:

1) heavy handed compared to what? The last time we were trying to settle Iraq down? Oh wait...this the first time?! Well then...heavy handed compared to Somalia, or Vietnam, or Korea, or WWII?

2) What would they do differently aside from not help and stand on sidelines bitching about it? Quick Answer: they probably really don't know

3) Have they ever had their collective lives held at risk for days, weeks, months on end in a combat situation? Answer for most of them: No

I have no idea what the real situation is over there...but I'm sure, on the whole, the millitary is not trying to kill or injure civillians or cause them undue stress and hardship. I'm sure our soldiers could be behaving better, but honestly...every civillian our soldiers deal with could be intent on murdering US troops...it is a very tough position for troops to be in.

Also, Fallujah was not leveled...suspected millitary targets were bombed/attacked, and due warning was given.

For the record: I do not agree with our presence in Iraq and I think Bush is a douche bag.

 

[Steeplerot]

I appreciate you playing devil's advocate here it's cool,
I have heard again and again that examples of the callousness of US troops while the Brits tried to mingle and learn a bit about the locals.
Heavy handed tactics create more trouble which is what the us in deep.
"legit" is pretty realative nowdays when it comes to the media with all the payoffs going on from the GOP.
I have a pretty good idea of whats going on there and it's more of the same incompetence we really should have had the Brits lead us since they have a big jump on us in how to deal with Muslim natives and the finer aspects of imperialism. (And what a failure it turns out to be every time)

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I appreciate you playing devil's advocate here it's cool,
I have heard again and again that examples of the callousness of US troops while the Brits tried to mingle and learn a bit about the locals.
Heavy handed tactics create more trouble which is what the us in deep.
"legit" is pretty realative nowdays when it comes to the media with all the payoffs going on from the GOP.
I have a pretty good idea of whats going on there and it's more of the same incompetence we really should have had the Brits lead us since they have a big jump on us in how to deal with Muslim natives and the finer aspects of imperialism. (And what a failure it turns out to be every time)

Right, you are on the ground over there and have a have seen what goes on between US soldiers and Iraqi citizens :disgust:. From all the journalists to tv documentries to the current elections I have seen that the relations between American soldiers and Iraqi civilians to be very warm.

Brits lead us? When 90% of the force is American with American equipment? 😕

Actually, speaking of imperialism, the Brits did a fine job at it. Probably one of the greatest empires of all time. But they lost almost all of their colonies, remember?

What would the current British soldier know about imperialism and how in the world would that translate to Iraq and our relations with the Iraqi civilians?

Be realistic. This is war and terrorists are trying to murder our soldiers over there. It isn't some type of picnic where you learn about other people's culture. I'm sure our soldiers are making the effort to do that, nonetheless. Their job is to secure Iraq and kill terrorists, not win some popularity contest.

You people seemed to have mastered the left wing loony talking points. Always criticize the US first no matter what issue is at hand.

 

[Steeplerot]

Hmm, and I wonder why they are trying to kill them.....maybe rummy forget to send flowers first kinda like the armor :roll:

 

[Specop 007]

"level Fallujah"
Thats a funny statement. Fallujah wasnt "levelled", not even close to it.
I personally think we should have simply done about 4 days of constant carpet bombing and turned into into a big lake, then build Falluhah Resort right next to it.
At least then the ridiculous "heavy handed" comments by whoeevr wishes to make them would be true.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
"level Fallujah"
Thats a funny statement. Fallujah wasnt "levelled", not even close to it.
I personally think we should have simply done about 4 days of constant carpet bombing and turned into into a big lake, then build Falluhah Resort right next to it.
At least then the ridiculous "heavy handed" comments by whoeevr wishes to make them would be true.

Boo-yah! Kill 'em all and let God sort them out. Cretin.

The Bush apologists need to get their stories straight. Are we there to liberate Iraqis or obliterate them? Your attitudes show the true answer. :disgust:


-----------------------
Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over America's eyes since 1980

 

[nergee]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
"level Fallujah"
Thats a funny statement. Fallujah wasnt "levelled", not even close to it.
I personally think we should have simply done about 4 days of constant carpet bombing and turned into into a big lake, then build Falluhah Resort right next to it.
At least then the ridiculous "heavy handed" comments by whoeevr wishes to make them would be true.

Agreed......

 

[Jhhnn]

What happened to "We don't negotiate with EEEvil?"

Get Cheney in there, quick, he'll straighten 'em out, those mamby-pamby twits....

The occupation has been heavy-handed and utterly inept, right from the start. Start with disbanding the military and the entire civil service, for starters, move on to the incommunicado imprisonment of scientists, abu ghraib, manhandling of women by american troops, and putting feet on prisoners' heads, which is the cultural equivalent of pissing on them... not to mention the financial shenanigans... or failure to achieve order and provide basic services...

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
U.S. diplomats and intelligence officers are conducting secret talks with Iraq's Sunni insurgents on ways to end fighting there, Time magazine reported today, citing Pentagon and other sources.

The Bush administration has said it would not negotiate with Iraqi fighters and there is no authorized dialogue but the U.S. is having "back-channel" communications with certain insurgents, unidentified Washington and Iraqi sources told the magazine.

The magazine cited a secret meeting between two members of the U.S. military and an Iraqi negotiator, a middle-aged former member of Saddam Hussein's regime and the senior representative of what he called the nationalist insurgency.

A U.S. officer tried to get names of other insurgent leaders while the Iraqi complained the new Shi'ite-dominated government was being controlled by Iran, according to an account of the meeting provided by the Iraqi negotiator.

"We are ready to work with you," the Iraqi negotiator said, according to Time.

Linkage



Do you think there really is a representive that can be negotiated with that represent the insurgents?
Is this defeat? Or a chance to stop the killing of Iraqis and Americans?
How shaky ground do you think our negotiations will be on becasue of our heavy-handed approach to the occupation?

I think an article Conjur posted about a week ago or so from Asian Times pretty much works well with this particle article.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The US is not really negotiating, the Iraqis are. They've already stated previously that they'd rather have the insrugents participate in government than fight against the government, some I'm wondering what is new in this report?

 

[conjur]

Wait a minute. Doesn't the Bush propaganda teach us that the "insurgents" are foreign fighters? How can we enter into talks with a rag-tag group of people that don't even represent Iraq?

Sounds like this administration is getting more adept at talking out of both sides of its mouth.


Or, perhaps they're just finally admitting they've been lying to us all this time and are trying to cover up their mistake of having too few troops in place to secure the peace as it's now hitting the pocketbook rather hard (43% of reconstruction costs are to beef up security.)


Violence Trumps Rebuilding in Iraq

U.S. officials say soaring security costs have consumed $1 billion earmarked for badly needed water, power and sanitation projects.
http://ktla.trb.com/news/nationworld/wo...1-lat,0,5116764.story?coll=ktla-news-1

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
"level Fallujah"
Thats a funny statement. Fallujah wasnt "levelled", not even close to it.
I personally think we should have simply done about 4 days of constant carpet bombing and turned into into a big lake, then build Falluhah Resort right next to it.
At least then the ridiculous "heavy handed" comments by whoeevr wishes to make them would be true.

Ah, the typical ignorant, red-neck "nuke them rag-heads" response.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Specop 007
"level Fallujah"
Thats a funny statement. Fallujah wasnt "levelled", not even close to it.
I personally think we should have simply done about 4 days of constant carpet bombing and turned into into a big lake, then build Falluhah Resort right next to it.
At least then the ridiculous "heavy handed" comments by whoeevr wishes to make them would be true.

Ah, the typical ignorant, red-neck "nuke them rag-heads" response.

Hey, thanks for the racist comment.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Do you think there really is a representive that can be negotiated with that represent the insurgents?

Of course not, but negotiation with one can upset the others and possibly make them think about doing the same, perhaps solely for the sake of continued survival.

Is this defeat? Or a chance to stop the killing of Iraqis and Americans?

It's a chance to lessen the deaths all around.

How shaky ground do you think our negotiations will be on becasue of our heavy-handed approach to the occupation?

It's hardly been heavy-handed. Heavy-handed is bombing every inch of rebellious territory and to hell with all Sunnis altogether. Though I know some of this forum love to pretend that Fallujah is a mass gravesite, it's not. The necessary amount of force was used wherever possible.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Our closest ally the brits have complained about our heavy handedness time and time again.
Leveling fallujah is not a bit extreme?
So what would be heavy handed to you? us nuking them? Genocide of all iraqi people to stop the insurgents?
I am being serious here CaD.
The world has critsized us for years now for our treatment of the Iraqis, what is going too far to you?

US tactics 'heavy handed' says Straw memo
British Military Critical of US Troops' Heavy-Handed Style with Civilians
Iraq: U.S. Troops Accused Of Being Heavy-Handed In Their Search For Terrorists
US 'too heavy-handed', says Foreign Office memo

Seriously are you in denial CaD? Do you read the news?

So the brits dictate what is heavy handed? Pfftt :roll: Oh, and commondreams can keep their click count, I'm not visiting their conspiracy site any more.
So what if we are "accused" of being it. Did the job get done?(yes) How exactly do you destroy a hiding enemy? Exactly, you flush him out as we did in Fallujah. If you think Fallujah was "heavy handed" then you must think that all warfare is heavy handed - sheesh:roll:
Ofcourse I read the news steeplerot - some of us know how to process what we read though instead of just lapping it up and claiming it as fact. You can hold your opinion that it was heavy-handed but most people with a shred of common sense would probably think otherwise. Ofcouse it all depends on what you mean by heavy-handed, but in the context of war - that was not even close.

CsG