U.S. Health Care Crisis: Profits over life

[dmcowen674]

Seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications illustrates the gravity of this situation of profits over life.of

Edit: I originally started this thread as Countdown to Revolution Part II but the importance of the Healthcare situation has clearly risen to the top and dominates this thread so I changed the Title to reflect.
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10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

 

[alchemize]

dmcowen, the master of the inflammatory overstated thread title

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
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10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

 

[nowareman]

These are people who worked all their lives for retirement and now can't afford the medication to keep them healthy and allow them to enjoy a few more years with their families and friends. Drug companies oppose them being able to fill their legal prescriptions where they can afford to while some people are filling shoe boxes with cash to purchase prescription drugs illegally. Let the seniors buy their meds where they can afford them and stop playing politics with their lives. How much time do they have left? Let them enjoy the few years they have left.

 

[SuperTool]

And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

 

[nowareman]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

I agree completely. I was picking up a prescription a few weeks ago at a large national chain drug store and while I waited a woman came in for her prescription. She had no insurance and was told her prescription was $500! About a dozen people waiting for prescriptions gasped out loud. The woman said the prescription was for her son and he needed the medication and she had to pull out a credit card and pay the $500 so her son could have the medication he needed. This is a shame. What else could she do. She couldn't just not get the prescription. She was forced to pay $500 for medicine her son needed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize
dmcowen, the master of the inflammatory overstated thread title

Thank You

Seemed to get your attention. Very Good.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

Care to back this up? What Canadians have the money to afford Health Care in the U.S. that Americans cannot afford? Are they able to get some sort of Insurance coverage we don't know about or is this another case strictly for the rich?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

Were you going to say something? The reply is blanK, why is that, another Cat got your tongue?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: nowareman

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

I agree completely. I was picking up a prescription a few weeks ago at a large national chain drug store and while I waited a woman came in for her prescription. She had no insurance and was told her prescription was $500! About a dozen people waiting for prescriptions gasped out loud. The woman said the prescription was for her son and he needed the medication and she had to pull out a credit card and pay the $500 so her son could have the medication he needed. This is a shame. What else could she do. She couldn't just not get the prescription. She was forced to pay $500 for medicine her son needed.

The question are if this Drug can be found cheaper in Canada, Mexico and Europe.
Then there is the problem of why does she not have Health Care Coverage for her son.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: nowareman

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

I agree completely. I was picking up a prescription a few weeks ago at a large national chain drug store and while I waited a woman came in for her prescription. She had no insurance and was told her prescription was $500! About a dozen people waiting for prescriptions gasped out loud. The woman said the prescription was for her son and he needed the medication and she had to pull out a credit card and pay the $500 so her son could have the medication he needed. This is a shame. What else could she do. She couldn't just not get the prescription. She was forced to pay $500 for medicine her son needed.

The question are if this Drug can be found cheaper in Canada, Mexico and Europe.
Then there is the problem of why does she not have Health Care Coverage for her son.

Canada makes sure its people get affordable drugs by setting price caps, while we don't, which explains why she cannot afford insurance for her son. This woman is fortunate enough to have a credit card, so at least her son is getting his medicine.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
And not just seniors. Everybody should be able to reimport these drugs. US consumers should not be subsidizing medicines for the whole world and not be able to afford it themselves.

Were you going to say something? The reply is blanK, why is that, another Cat got your tongue?

Maybe it was because he agreed with what SuperTool posted?

I most certainly agree with it too. It's just one of the many problems with our Health Care system.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

dasm dp:|

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: nowareman
These are people who worked all their lives for retirement and now can't afford the medication to keep them healthy and allow them to enjoy a few more years with their families and friends. Drug companies oppose them being able to fill their legal prescriptions where they can afford to while some people are filling shoe boxes with cash to purchase prescription drugs illegally. Let the seniors buy their meds where they can afford them and stop playing politics with their lives. How much time do they have left? Let them enjoy the few years they have left.

Well said.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: nowareman
These are people who worked all their lives for retirement and now can't afford the medication to keep them healthy and allow them to enjoy a few more years with their families and friends. Drug companies oppose them being able to fill their legal prescriptions where they can afford to while some people are filling shoe boxes with cash to purchase prescription drugs illegally. Let the seniors buy their meds where they can afford them and stop playing politics with their lives. How much time do they have left? Let them enjoy the few years they have left.

Well said.

the most

NO can't have that. Have to bleed the few that can afford to fill the profit coffers the most at the expense of the general population.

What's that saying Spock? Oh yeah, "The needs of the one outweighs the needs of the many".

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Countdown U.S. Revolution Part II:

I started this thread not because of the ongoing Political battles between left and right, conservative vs Liberal.

Not because of the continuing erosion of civil liberties, not because of the nonstop bleeding of decent jobs to lower and lower scale job (even though there is a bunch of nuts on here that continue to be blind and just keep saying that it is only low paying jobs leaving the Country).

Not because of the re-boot and taking away of the Technology in the Computer and the Internet that is originating from the U.S.

But seeing Senior citizens having to take bus trips to cross the Canadian border to be able to afford to get their medications. These are people that are not likely to be the first ones to shed blood in an all out revolution by virtue of their age and frailty but will enough grandkids and people that will be in their shoes soon realize the gravity of it all and start the revolt is the question?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10-25-2003 "We believe we have not done anything wrong. We are supplying medication to elderly people who cannot otherwise afford it."

A number of cash-strapped states and communities are exploring whether to allow their workers to buy Canadian drugs in an effort to save millions of dollars. Cambridge, Mass., on Monday, became the latest municipality to say it would examine the possibility of pursuing the cheaper Canadian drugs.

Dont worry, the seniors can wave to bus fulls of general canadian citizens coming to states seeking general health care.

There are no busloads of Canadians crossing the border for healthcare.

 

[SuperTool]

Howard Dean - Promoting American Health

"In the richest, most advanced country in the world in the 21st century, it's simply wrong for sick children to go without seeing a doctor because their parents can't afford it. It's wrong for a woman to find out she has late-stage breast cancer, because she couldn't afford a mammogram. It's wrong for seniors to have to choose between prescriptions they need and putting food on the table. The time has come to make healthcare for all Americans a reality.

It doesn't have to be this way in America. In Vermont, where I served as governor for the last 11 years, nearly 92% of adults now have coverage. Most importantly, 99% of all Vermont children are eligible for health insurance and 96% have it."

 

[amok]

Charrison was, no doubt, referring to the fact that a lot of the newer and more effective drugs can't be obtained in Canada. Governments are slow to approve drugs into formularies, and companies are slow to release drugs that have cost them hundreds of millions in R&D at a fraction of the cost they need to maintain their profit margins. Many Canadians who are most effectively treated by drugs not OK'ed by their government are driving to the states to get the medicine they need.

If you want a linky, this should suffice.

 

[nowareman]

Originally posted by: amok
Charrison was, no doubt, referring to the fact that a lot of the newer and more effective drugs can't be obtained in Canada. Governments are slow to approve drugs into formularies, and companies are slow to release drugs that have cost them hundreds of millions in R&D at a fraction of the cost they need to maintain their profit margins. Many Canadians who are most effectively treated by drugs not OK'ed by their government are driving to the states to get the medicine they need.

If you want a linky, this should suffice.

Which is worse? Knowing the drugs you need will take years to be approved? Or knowing the drugs you need are right at the corner drug store but they are priced so high you can't afford them? There are drugs which are available in Canada that US citizens need at prices US citizens can afford. There are drugs Canadian citizens need which aren't available in Canada. How do you rectify the two circumstances? Let the US citizens buy the drugs they need in Canada for a start. The drug company claim that R&D costs hundreds of millions is nonsense. Drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on R&D. The often repeated charge that drugs and care aren't available in Canada due to restrictions in the Canadian health care system is used by drug companies to keep the US from adopting a Canadian style health care system, to justify their inflated prices in the US and to keep new drugs out of Canada. They are playing politics with people's health and lives to maintain an artificially inflated price structure for their products and artificially inflated profits for themselves. When life and death comes down to whether or not you can afford medication to survive there is something fundamentally wrong with the system. When profits are placed above human life there is something fundamentally wrong with the system. Drug companies also spend millions of dollars every year to lobby legislators to maintain the status quo. Why with the purported high cost of R&D would they do that?

 

[glenn1]

Drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on R&D.

And you know this how exactly? Obviously not by first-hand knowledge, since it's not listed anywhere in financial documents available to the general public. Read an annual report from a pharmaceutical company and show where it breaks out advertising costs by itslef as a line item. You'll see it in the Consolidated Income and Earnings Statement under the expense category of SGA, which is Selling, General, and Administrative. Of course that # is going to be higher than R&D, it includes ALL the costs of business, everything from paying the electric bill and salaries to advertising.

Please point to a link for any financial statement for any pharmaceutical company where it breaks out advertising expenses, much less shows them to be higher than R&D costs, otherwise please stop spreading FUD on the boards.

 

[burnedout]

<------- Pfizer (formerly Pharmacia (formerly Upjohn)) shareholder

Originally posted by: glenn1

Drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on R&D.

You'll see it in the Consolidated Income and Earnings Statement under the expense category of SGA, which is Selling, General, and Administrative.

Or under SI&A. Regardless, you are correct. They don't detail the information in public reports.

 

[ElFenix]

doesn't canada subsidize prescription drugs? that's what i heard, at least. i do think the FDA was making poor judgement in allowing the direct marketing of prescription drugs.

 

[nowareman]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on R&D.

And you know this how exactly? Obviously not by first-hand knowledge, since it's not listed anywhere in financial documents available to the general public. Read an annual report from a pharmaceutical company and show where it breaks out advertising costs by itslef as a line item. You'll see it in the Consolidated Income and Earnings Statement under the expense category of SGA, which is Selling, General, and Administrative. Of course that # is going to be higher than R&D, it includes ALL the costs of business, everything from paying the electric bill and salaries to advertising.

Please point to a link for any financial statement for any pharmaceutical company where it breaks out advertising expenses, much less shows them to be higher than R&D costs, otherwise please stop spreading FUD on the boards.

Well if SGA is in fact higher than R&D and the drug companies don't bother to break it down then to me that means they are spending more on advertising than R&D else why wouldn't they break down the figures? Do they have something to hide? And what about the millions in contributions to their favorite politicians? When you add it all up the drug companies are using millions to maintain the status quo and sell doctors and patients on their products spending more on these items than R&D. So please don't spread your FUD on the boards. People are having to choose between food and medication and you defend drug manufacturers who won't make exact figures known while they pay off politicians so they can keep raking in the dough at the price of human life and suffering. Real humanitarians you and them.

 

[glenn1]

Well if SGA is in fact higher than R&D and the drug companies don't bother to break it down then to me that means they are spending more on advertising than R&D else why wouldn't they break down the figures? Do they have something to hide?

I'm just clarifying your statement that drug companies spend more on advertising that R&D. That might be the case, or it might not, there's no way to tell.

I have no problem with your other point. They could and probably should exhibit greater transparency on their financial statements. I doubt that they're trying to hide anything, they just don't have the necessity to do so and it would be embarrassing, so they don't.

People are having to choose between food and medication and you defend drug manufacturers who won't make exact figures known while they pay off politicians so they can keep raking in the dough at the price of human life and suffering. Real humanitarians you and them.

First of all, if someone is both so poor and so sickly that they have to choose between food or medicine, how exactly is this my fault, and more specifically, why should i pay for it? Second of all, i recognize the right of the pharmaceutical companies to do business and make a profit. Without them, there wouldn't be all these neat medicines to begin with. I don't think you have a problem with that either. We simply part ways when we discuss the profitability of the pharma companies. You seem to think they are too profitable and this is prima facie evidence of harm being done to the consumer, and i disagree. That's a reasonable difference of opinion to have methinks.

Now if you want to make the assertion that pharma companies shouldn't be allowed to do DTC (Direct To Consumer) advertising, i might be up for that.