U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb

[Jhhnn]

That's cool. Now the problem is if the government wants to build bombs. That containment vessel has no peaceful use.

You must be referring to the semi-mythical containment vessel supposedly at Parchin circa 2000, per "Western Intelligence Agencies", right?

The same intelligence agencies who told us that Iraq had oodles of WMD's, right?

Just because you're jumping to the conclusions you want doesn't mean you're not jumping to conclusions...

Iranian efforts put them in a position to "breakout" into nuclear weapons production, should they feel the need. If attacked, I'm sure they will.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You must be referring to the semi-mythical containment vessel supposedly at Parchin circa 2000, per "Western Intelligence Agencies", right?

The same intelligence agencies who told us that Iraq had oodles of WMD's, right?

Just because you're jumping to the conclusions you want doesn't mean you're not jumping to conclusions...

Iranian efforts put them in a position to "breakout" into nuclear weapons production, should they feel the need. If attacked, I'm sure they will.

We'll find out if Iran lets us inspect it.

 

[Lemon law]

That's cool. Now the problem is if the government wants to build bombs. That containment vessel has no peaceful use.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haybasusa, now you sound exactly like that serial liar sec of State Condi Rice who said those aluminum tubes could only be used as centrifuge rotors. Turns out they were used in barrage rockets instead.

But even then, we ignore the other things in the US intel assessments, which is Iran is still at least a year away from getting to a decision point. Meanwhile Iran has a legal right to continue to pursue a nuclear electrical generation program, or in the future to also go on to also develop illegal nuclear weapons also. Which will then take at least another two years.

Meanwhile the Iranian problem is that Iran can't disprove mere suspicions, And Israeli is the undisputed master of the suspicions propaganda, because Israel achieved nuclear weapons by using every sneaky method they now accuse Iran as now using,

As I suggest the best way to persuade Iran not to take the nuclear weapons option would be to make the entire mid-east, Israel included, into a nuclear weapons free zone.

As I also suggest, Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed settler party coalition is far nuttier than the Iranian Mullals by a long shot. Especially if we compare their human rights records. As Israel holds 3.5 million of people in abject lack of Human rights and Iranian Mullahs do that to at best maybe 50,000 of its people.

As you Hayabsusa, complain bitterly that I compare Israel with Iran, when your failure to do so is the far greater logical crime IMHO.

 

[EagleKeeper]

How many citizen protesters does Israel kill over their elections

Iran has been working on the destruction of Israel for the past 30 years. Can you show the same in return

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As I also suggest, Bozo Netanyuhu and his crazed settler party coalition is far nuttier than the Iranian Mullals by a long shot. Especially if we compare their human rights records. As Israel holds 3.5 million of people in abject lack of Human rights and Iranian Mullahs do that to at best maybe 50,000 of its people.

This is enough to pretty much sink you yet again. How many of its own citizens have been murdered by the Israeli government who feel so oppressed that they rose up against? Oh yeah, none. Your pet Mullahs? I don't know, and you don't care. I think what you want is for them to get a deliverable bomb. That way you can blame the Israeli's for it.

 

[Jhhnn]

How many citizen protesters does Israel kill over their elections

Iran has been working on the destruction of Israel for the past 30 years. Can you show the same in return

That's on-topic how, exactly?

 

[Jhhnn]

We'll find out if Iran lets us inspect it.

Heh. If such a thing ever existed, it's been cut up & scrapped, melted down long ago... or buried at the bottom of a very deep hole. Anybody with a lick of sense, including the IAEA, recognizes that.

Like a lot of people, you fail to recognize that the IAEA has a political agenda of their own, and part of that is to discredit Iranian efforts & to cast suspicion on them.

"We have anonymous information that maybe you engaged in prohibited research wrt nuclear triggers 12 years ago using a steel containment vessel, and we want to go on a witch hunt to find it or something we can say is it. If we do, we'll use that to raise holy hell about your entire program, regardless of what you're doing today. If you won't let us look, we'll use that against you, too. Might as well give up your program, because we'll never be satisfied, no matter what."

 

[Lemon law]

EK asserts, "Iran has been working on the destruction of Israel for the past 30 years. Can you show the same in return."

Israel has been working towards the destruction of the Palestinian people for 64 years and counting, and If Iran armed Hamas to the teeth, how come Hamas was totally defenseless in the Israeli 2008 action of cast lead?

Nor EK, should you not be confused, I am not anymore happier than you are about the Iranian government of the Mullah's of Iran, but why can't you be honest and admit the policies of the current crazed government of Israel is a far greater threat to world peace?

There is something totally intellectually dishonest on your part, regardless if we are comparing apples to apples, or apples to oranges, to fail to compare Israel to Iran. Especially as Israel, with remarkable speed, has alienated Egypt. Jordan, and Turkey that can't be blamed in anyway on Iran.

Now that the Jordanian talks are collapsing on a Palestinian State, just like the Annapolis talks also collapsed, expect center stage to go to the Palestinians as they take their case for Statehood to the UN general assembly after March 6.

 

[EagleKeeper]

That's on-topic how, exactly?

Ask LL. He attempts to drag Israeli treatment of the Palestinians info every ME thread.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Heh. If such a thing ever existed, it's been cut up & scrapped, melted down long ago... or buried at the bottom of a very deep hole. Anybody with a lick of sense, including the IAEA, recognizes that.

Like a lot of people, you fail to recognize that the IAEA has a political agenda of their own, and part of that is to discredit Iranian efforts & to cast suspicion on them.

"We have anonymous information that maybe you engaged in prohibited research wrt nuclear triggers 12 years ago using a steel containment vessel, and we want to go on a witch hunt to find it or something we can say is it. If we do, we'll use that to raise holy hell about your entire program, regardless of what you're doing today. If you won't let us look, we'll use that against you, too. Might as well give up your program, because we'll never be satisfied, no matter what."

Then there's no harm in letting people look around.

 

[Matt1970]

Both reports, known as national intelligence estimates, conclude that Tehran halted efforts to develop and build a nuclear warhead in 2003.

Problem is, they didn't know about the halt till 2005. It took just about the same amount of time to know about them starting the program back up.

Evil Iranians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TObANrkrngo

If you would bother to educate yourself you would know we are not at odds with the Iranian people. A lot of Iranian citizens actually support the US and want us to topple Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

 

[Lemon law]

Ask LL. He attempts to drag Israeli treatment of the Palestinians info every ME thread.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask EK instead, as EK somehow asserts the Israeli government's treatment of the Palestinian people is something we should not discuss.

And instead we should assume the Israeli government has a GOD Given right to deprive millions of people of their human rights?

But when it comes to Iran, we should concentrate on only Iranian government unfairness that EK can recite chapter and verse even though EK exaggerates their sins. While maintaining all Arabs support Israel because all Arabs hate Iran even worse.

Just pardon me, EK, you have a right to fool only yourself, but in the larger world, I don't think many believe you. An exception may be in the USA and AIPAC, but when Israeli delusions of grander start really hurting the people of the USA too, AIPAC PR may not last long.

 

[Jhhnn]

Then there's no harm in letting people look around.

Other than the idea that IAEA inspectors may be wearing more than one hat, and the likelihood that the IAEA, the US, and the Israelis will just come up with more demands.

You forget, or seem to want to ignore, the fact that the US & IAEA goal isn't to have honest inspections of the Iranian program, at all, but rather to induce them to stop doing what they have the right to do under existing treaties. For the Israelis, the goal is to develop a plausible rationale for attack & for dragging the US into it. The rest is just obfuscation.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Other than the idea that IAEA inspectors may be wearing more than one hat, and the likelihood that the IAEA, the US, and the Israelis will just come up with more demands.

You forget, or seem to want to ignore, the fact that the US & IAEA goal isn't to have honest inspections of the Iranian program, at all, but rather to induce them to stop doing what they have the right to do under existing treaties. For the Israelis, the goal is to develop a plausible rationale for attack & for dragging the US into it. The rest is just obfuscation.

What is sad is that people like you justify Iran not allowing the IAEA to look around.......Yet the day Iran sets off a nuclear bomb you will be shitting your pants!!

If they have nothing to hide then let the IAEA look around.
Thats not a complicated thought....

 

[Jhhnn]

What is sad is that people like you justify Iran not allowing the IAEA to look around.......Yet the day Iran sets off a nuclear bomb you will be shitting your pants!!

If they have nothing to hide then let the IAEA look around.
Thats not a complicated thought....

All nations have something to hide wrt their military.

So, uhh, maybe Israel should set an example for the Iranians, huh? Invite the IAEA to come on in, look everything over, show them all the peaceful uses they've found for the plutonium produced by their Dimona reactor... it's been operational since the early 60's, but doesn't even generate electricity...

 

[William Gaatjes]

I don`t think I changed one thing in your post!! I gave you a reason why the Iranian people will do nothing....and a reason why most IMO uprisings fail.....
The Iranian people will do nothing...why?
Because thery know that the people truly in charge only care about maintaining the power they have, Thus human life means nothing...
---- The reason uprising fails in some parts of the world is the people all to often understand that human life means nothing to those in charge....

In all honesty, it is perfectly understandable why nothing happens. It is all about mass psychology.

 

[iGas]

Yet these Intelligence estimates are from the same people that also provided information regarding Iraq.

No one knows what Iran is trying to do and where they stand. No HUMIT seems to exist, only guesses based on who is asking the questions.

IMHO you can't trust every party in play here.

Example: Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat

 

[blankslate]

Are you that naive that you really think that entire levels of management of Intel people walked out of their offices?

And the entire Intel system rebuilt from ground up in 5-7 years

No I doubt anyone is naive enough to think that we have a whole new set of intelligence personnel.

However, I really really doubt that we have a high level administration member leaning on our intelligence community now telling them that their findings are not good enough and to look at it again until it's more to the administrations liking.

 

[blankslate]

IMHO you can't trust every party in play here.

Example: Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat

Interesting... but that link is going to be ignored or explained away by someone who attacks the reliability of the articles source.

Because it doesn't conform to their position.

 

[leper84]

How many citizen protesters does Israel kill over their elections

Iran has been working on the destruction of Israel for the past 30 years. Can you show the same in return

You bring up an excellent point. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

So instead of backing Iran into a corner and giving them every single excuse to their people and allies necessary to essentially do what ever they want, why don't we try trading with them?

Look at China, bottom line is they hate us, hell we've been to war with them before. Because of our trade though, there is so much on the line it would take an act impossible to overcome- regardless of our relations- for them to go to war with us.

If you want to argue China is any different or better than Iran, go read up on the 'Great Leap Forward'. Why don't we take the same approach with Iran, to give them an actual reason to pause and contemplate the consequences? I'm sure from their perspective they're screwed with or without complying with us right now. I'm sure that lack of trust also has to do with our instating the Shah, which seems to be the same foreign policy you and Jediyoda are advocating...

 

[Jhhnn]

No I doubt anyone is naive enough to think that we have a whole new set of intelligence personnel.

However, I really really doubt that we have a high level administration member leaning on our intelligence community now telling them that their findings are not good enough and to look at it again until it's more to the administrations liking.

The IAEA is attempting to act on old intelligence wrt the supposed Iranian steel containment vessel allegedly used for nuclear initiator research way back in 2000. The allegations are from a period of time when the admin *was* leaning on intelligence services to come up with what they wanted, The Bush era & the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.

It's kinda like demanding that landowners let you on their property to investigate a Bigfoot sighting from 12 years ago... then claiming they're hiding a Yeti conspiracy to take over the world when they blow you off...

 

[Nebor]

I think it's funny that all the people usually so quick to condemn the opinions of people like General Dempsey and the CIA suddenly change their tune when they hear something they like. And the people that usually take the CIA's word as gospel are in here saying, "Well they bungled that whole Iraq thing."

You're all so biased based on the outcome you want, and it's sickening. I'm totally impartial: I don't care what anyone says, or what evidence is discovered either way; we need to bomb Iran.

 

[Lemon law]

The IAEA is attempting to act on old intelligence wrt the supposed Iranian steel containment vessel allegedly used for nuclear initiator research way back in 2000. The allegations are from a period of time when the admin *was* leaning on intelligence services to come up with what they wanted, The Bush era & the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.

It's kinda like demanding that landowners let you on their property to investigate a Bigfoot sighting from 12 years ago... then claiming they're hiding a Yeti conspiracy to take over the world when they blow you off...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Jhhnn there but maybe there are two other distinctions to be made.

(1) While the IAEA has a legitimate right to inspect Iranian nuclear sites, Its obviously demeaning to Iran and fruitless to search for legitimate clues where no real evidence could be. Sorta like the IAEA searching someones public library records to see how many Tom Clancy novels they have read. If you read more than two, nope can't let Iran have any Uranium. In short, where the IAEA chooses to look is very strong indicator regarding the search being legitimate or totally frivolous.

(2) If you or I want to buy a chain saw or a automobile, its assumed normal. Even though someone could buy the automobile to run down pedestrians and the chain saw could be used to chop down humans. There is no way to prove or disprove intent. As I don't even think anyone in Iran has decided either as that decision point is years in the future.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So, uhh, maybe Israel should set an example for the Iranians, huh? Invite the IAEA to come on in, look everything over, show them all the peaceful uses they've found for the plutonium produced by their Dimona reactor... it's been operational since the early 60's, but doesn't even generate electricity...

Your name is Jhhnn not Lemon law -- when you have nothing to contribute you try to turn the tables and bring israel into this....

Lets look at the truth of the matter....

if Israel has nuclear weapons they have NOT used them..they have a track record.....

Why is the world not up in arms over Israel possibly having nuclear weapons??

Yet the world is up in arms over the possibility of Iran having nuclear weapons......

The main reason IMO...the leaqdership in Iran are batshit crazy.......
No matter what you think of the leadership in Israel they have not used nuclear weapons...no matter how crazy you may think they are...

The world fears a nuclear Iran and for all the correct reasons.........Leadership is batshit crazy...leadership calling for destruction of Israel....leadership sponsors terrorist........
quite a few reasons the world is NOT afraid of a nuclear israel as opposed to a nuclear iran!!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

All nations have something to hide wrt their military.

So, uhh, maybe Israel should set an example for the Iranians, huh? Invite the IAEA to come on in, look everything over, show them all the peaceful uses they've found for the plutonium produced by their Dimona reactor... it's been operational since the early 60's, but doesn't even generate electricity...

Israel isn't a signatory of the non-proliferation treaty but Iran is and that gives the IAEA authority to inspect Iraq, but not Israel.