U.N. Debate on private gun ownership.

[jtusa]

Basically there was a debate between some lady from the U.N., Peters(last name, can't remember first), and a man from the NRA(LaPierre, can't remember first name either).

Peters was saying that private ownership of guns should be outlawed worldwide. Handguns, semi-auto guns, rifles that shoot over 100 yards(basically any rifle in existence).

LaPierre was obviously debating against it.

I guess there is going to be a treaty proposed in the UN that will aim to make private ownership to all member nations illegal.

Personally I think this is asinine. LaPierre brought up the Bill of Rights and Peters/UN thinks there should be an "International Bill of Rights" that supercedes it. This is socialism, VERY scary stuff if you ask me. This is one of the reasons I am very against the UN.

Your thoughts?

(If you didn't get to see the debate but want to, PM me)

 

[CycloWizard]

It's the UN trying to impose itself as the reigning world power. It can try, and many of its member-states would probably love it if this happened, since it would depose us as the central world power, thereby elevating themselves. They're not happy that they're not at the forefront of world power, but decentralizing it weakens us, so they're all for it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It's the UN trying to impose itself as the reigning world power. It can try, and many of its member-states would probably love it if this happened, since it would depose us as the central world power, thereby elevating themselves. They're not happy that they're not at the forefront of world power, but decentralizing it weakens us, so they're all for it.

How would it depose us as the central world power? And who would be the world power? I don't want to debate the issue of gun control. I just want to figure out how banning handguns would make this country weaker militarly.

 

[Infohawk]

The kind of people today who hate the UN are the kind of people a couple hundred years ago who opposed the US Constiution and the federal government. The same people who took up arms against our flag in a desperate terrorist attempt to divide the nation.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It's the UN trying to impose itself as the reigning world power. It can try, and many of its member-states would probably love it if this happened, since it would depose us as the central world power, thereby elevating themselves. They're not happy that they're not at the forefront of world power, but decentralizing it weakens us, so they're all for it.

How would it depose us as the central world power? And who would be the world power? I don't want to debate the issue of gun control. I just want to figure out how banning handguns would make this country weaker militarly.

It wouldn't make us weaker militarily. The point is that the UN thinks it tell us how to run our country by making rules that supercede the Constitution. If that happened it would set the precedent that the UN can tell us what to do and we'd listen. Therefore they would be in control and they would be the "central world power".

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
How would it depose us as the central world power? And who would be the world power? I don't want to debate the issue of gun control. I just want to figure out how banning handguns would make this country weaker militarly.

If the UN can pass laws or restrict rights above the level of our national government, then they're effectively governing us.

Originally posted by: jtusa4
It wouldn't make us weaker militarily. The point is that the UN thinks it tell us how to run our country by making rules that supercede the Constitution. If that happened it would set the precedent that the UN can tell us what to do and we'd listen. Therefore they would be in control and they would be the "central world power".

:thumbsup:

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The kind of people today who hate the UN are the kind of people a couple hundred years ago who opposed the US Constiution and the federal government. The same people who took up arms against our flag in a desperate terrorist attempt to divide the nation.

So you're saying that if everyone in your neighborhood got together and said "you have to send your kids to this school not that one" and "you have to shop here and here, not there", that that's ok? Because that's exactly what the UN is after. They want to be able to tell the US what to do. When they say jump they want us to say "How high?" As soon as that happens to the extent that they want, we've lost our sovereignty(sp?) as a nation.

 

[ntdz]

what i find funny is how is the U.N. supposed to enforce this stupid law theyve proposed? The whole idea of an international law against guns is ridiculous.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The kind of people today who hate the UN are the kind of people a couple hundred years ago who opposed the US Constiution and the federal government. The same people who took up arms against our flag in a desperate terrorist attempt to divide the nation.

So you're saying that if everyone in your neighborhood got together and said "you have to send your kids to this school not that one" and "you have to shop here and here, not there", that that's ok?

That's not what I'm saying.

 

[sandorski]

Link to something please. I suspect you are reading way more into this than is reasonable.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: ntdz
what i find funny is how is the U.N. supposed to enforce this stupid law theyve proposed? The whole idea of an international law against guns is ridiculous.

Gun laws are easy to enfore if your th only one with guns.

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The kind of people today who hate the UN are the kind of people a couple hundred years ago who opposed the US Constiution and the federal government. The same people who took up arms against our flag in a desperate terrorist attempt to divide the nation.

So you're saying that if everyone in your neighborhood got together and said "you have to send your kids to this school not that one" and "you have to shop here and here, not there", that that's ok?

That's not what I'm saying.

Thats exactly what your saying.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It's the UN trying to impose itself as the reigning world power. It can try, and many of its member-states would probably love it if this happened, since it would depose us as the central world power, thereby elevating themselves. They're not happy that they're not at the forefront of world power, but decentralizing it weakens us, so they're all for it.

How would it depose us as the central world power? And who would be the world power? I don't want to debate the issue of gun control. I just want to figure out how banning handguns would make this country weaker militarly.

banning hand guns and the weapons listed would make the USA weaker militarly because new recurits or drafitys would have very little expreences with guns before joining the army making them bad shots. Who would you want watching your back, so red neck who grew up with a shot gun in the crib or some ass hat from NYC that just had the silver spoon pulled out of his mouth?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

Yeah, but we're the ones with guns, training, and dedication. Vietnam proved what determination gets you in a guerilla war...the winning team.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
It's the UN trying to impose itself as the reigning world power. It can try, and many of its member-states would probably love it if this happened, since it would depose us as the central world power, thereby elevating themselves. They're not happy that they're not at the forefront of world power, but decentralizing it weakens us, so they're all for it.

How would it depose us as the central world power? And who would be the world power? I don't want to debate the issue of gun control. I just want to figure out how banning handguns would make this country weaker militarly.

banning hand guns and the weapons listed would make the USA weaker militarly because new recurits or drafitys would have very little expreences with guns before joining the army making them bad shots. Who would you want watching your back, so red neck who grew up with a shot gun in the crib or some ass hat from NYC that just had the silver spoon pulled out of his mouth?

Not to mention the tens of thousands of veterans who are no longer in the military but are now civilians.

It's not a good idea to disarm them. Unless your intent is to control the population.

i.e. what Hitler did in Nazi Germany

Of course there are those who have an ignorant but totally honest view of trying to eliminate guns worldwide. The UN has plenty of those people in it but so long as a single entity continues to produce weapons, any weapons, it will make its way to those who do not care if they are breaking laws.

Unless you can wake up tomorrow and vanish every weapon ever created then your plan is doomed to failure.

Then you end up with black market custom weapons because the knowledge of gunpowder and machining is known to many. It would be prohibitively expansive to own a gun.

Guess who would own guns then still? The only ones who can afford it and are willing to break laws to own the most powerful tools on Earth.

Quite simple really.

It's too bad logic never enters the minds of some people.

The only way to win is to not just vanish all weapons but to vanish to knowledge of them. Even then there's the possibility that someone would find that knowledge.

After all we aren't walking around in a cave right now with a club right?

You cannot win.

All you can do is deter the use of weapons. The only way you can do that is by arming law abiding citizens to the teeth.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

It's also the "do what we want types" that fought the British in the Revolutionary War AND the War of 1812 and WON.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

It's also the "do what we want types" that fought the British in the Revolutionary War AND the War of 1812 and WON.

Psst, 1812 was a Draw.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

It's also the "do what we want types" that fought the British in the Revolutionary War AND the War of 1812 and WON.

Psst, 1812 was a Draw.

No, the Brits gave up, that's not a draw in my book.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Aelius
Of course there are those who have an ignorant but totally honest view of trying to eliminate guns worldwide. The UN has plenty of those people in it but so long as a single entity continues to produce weapons, any weapons, it will make its way to those who do not care if they are breaking laws.

I was one of these until recently. I decided that guns were the worst thing ever after a couple of my friends got shot to death when I was a kid (both accidents). Then I realized that the problem wasn't the gun, it was the lack of parenting. A teenage kid doesn't stick his hand on the stove because his parents told him it's hot. They do play with guns because they don't understand them. Sad, but true. Parental and personal responsibility are the solution to MANY of today's 'unsolvable' problems, but people don't want to be responsible, so they dismiss it out of hand.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Aelius
Of course there are those who have an ignorant but totally honest view of trying to eliminate guns worldwide. The UN has plenty of those people in it but so long as a single entity continues to produce weapons, any weapons, it will make its way to those who do not care if they are breaking laws.

I was one of these until recently. I decided that guns were the worst thing ever after a couple of my friends got shot to death when I was a kid (both accidents). Then I realized that the problem wasn't the gun, it was the lack of parenting. A teenage kid doesn't stick his hand on the stove because his parents told him it's hot. They do play with guns because they don't understand them. Sad, but true. Parental and personal responsibility are the solution to MANY of today's 'unsolvable' problems, but people don't want to be responsible, so they dismiss it out of hand.

You are exactly right.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

It's also the "do what we want types" that fought the British in the Revolutionary War AND the War of 1812 and WON.

Psst, 1812 was a Draw.

Not according to some US school history books.

Not that Canadian school history books are any better.

Or the country where I grew up in. Makes you wonder who the Hell decides to butcher history for a nation.

I loved how my history class' in Canada have been the most boring and unrevealing of world history. I think we spent 20 minutes on Communism and maybe 10 minutes on Nazi Germany but I vividly remember the part about the killing of the Jews taking several days. At the end of which I started to wonder who the moron was who decided that this will properly teach someone world history. It's pathetic in how much was left out and practically no lessons or discussion took place. Maybe they thought that it would have been too horrible for kids to discuss. Heaven forbid if "that" might happen.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Good thing it'll never happen, since the hundred million of us with guns in America would go to war against anyone trying to take our weapons, including our own military and police.

Hmmm... you "we'll do what we want types, even if it's wrong" got smacked down in the Civil War. It could happen again. Don't push your luck.

It's also the "do what we want types" that fought the British in the Revolutionary War AND the War of 1812 and WON.

Psst, 1812 was a Draw.

No, the Brits gave up, that's not a draw in my book.

The US hadn't won any major battle when the peace treaty was signed. We didn't even get to keep canada and the birts didn't get to keep any US so it was basicly a draw for US. But being the under dogs a draw was a win.

 

[Hecubus2000]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: jtusa4

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The kind of people today who hate the UN are the kind of people a couple hundred years ago who opposed the US Constiution and the federal government. The same people who took up arms against our flag in a desperate terrorist attempt to divide the nation.

So you're saying that if everyone in your neighborhood got together and said "you have to send your kids to this school not that one" and "you have to shop here and here, not there", that that's ok?

That's not what I'm saying.

So what are you saying? It's not very clear.