TX's Abbot and FL's DeSantis fan the flames of the pandemic

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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
The inconsistent one. You might as well say "I support masks in Mexican restaurants, but not Italian ones."

The first question is obviously why? From interviews and social media posts I've seen, the overwhelming majority of kids don't mind wearing masks and understand the reason why. The only ones freaking out are their overbearing helicopter parents showing up at school board meetings and having completely unhinged public freakouts.

If I were a student, that would traumatize me way more than a piece of cloth on my face. (Just from embarrassment).

My position on masks in schools is based on extremely low rates of death, hospitalization and long term complications among kids, and not really giving a crap about the unvaxxed adults they may infect.

But it doesn't really matter for purposes of the point I'm making whether I'm right or wrong about that. The fact is, if you support one restriction, you don't have to support every possible restriction, and likewise if you oppose one restriction.

I simply object to the notion that you either have to place no value on liberty, or no value on safety. I just think that is wrong.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,635
3,509
136
My position on masks in schools is based on extremely low rates of death, hospitalization and long term complications among kids, and not really giving a crap about the unvaxxed adults they may infect.

But it doesn't really matter for purposes of the point I'm making whether I'm right or wrong about that. The fact is, if you support one restriction, you don't have to support every possible restriction, and likewise if you oppose one restriction.

I simply object to the notion that you either have to place no value on liberty, or no value on safety. I just think that is wrong.

That's fine. I just thing being asked to wear a piece cloth over your face and framing it as a loss of liberty is extreme hyperbole.

The government also tells you to put a piece of cloth over your junk before you walk into schools, and most other places. Is that a loss of liberty?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
That's fine. I just thing being asked to wear a piece cloth over your face and framing it as a loss of liberty is extreme hyperbole.

The government also tells you to put a piece of cloth over your junk before you walk into schools, and most other places. Is that a loss of liberty?

When you don’t know what liberty is, let alone the constitution, it’s pretty easy to claim your freedoms are being taken away.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,040
2,652
136
My position on masks in schools is based on extremely low rates of death, hospitalization and long term complications among kids, and not really giving a crap about the unvaxxed adults they may infect.

But it doesn't really matter for purposes of the point I'm making whether I'm right or wrong about that. The fact is, if you support one restriction, you don't have to support every possible restriction, and likewise if you oppose one restriction.

I simply object to the notion that you either have to place no value on liberty, or no value on safety. I just think that is wrong.
To have this Opinion, you have to ignore the delta strain. That low rate of death and hospitalizations are increasing substantially with the delta strain. The long term complications argument is a BS argument period, no matter what age group you are talking about because we haven't seen what the long term effect will be as there hasn't been enough time to learn what that will be, as we are still in the short term.

The fact that your positions is okay with ANY child dying, when measures can be put in place to reduce it even more, to almost non existent, is mind boggling, immoral, and simply wrong. You are also not taking into account all those people those children come into contact with who are adults and are at a higher risk of infection and death. You are saying you are okay with that extreme low death rate to includes your child, and their life is worth the risk to you. As well as all the parents, siblings, etc they come into contact with. I know you said it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong about your position, but it does matter. Being right just means you have to be uncomfortable for a while. IF you are wrong, it could cost your child's life, or others. That matters in every possible way in my book.
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
473
126
Making his point in Tx.

Texas Dad Strips At School Board Meeting To Support COVID-19 Mask Mandates


During Monday night’s meeting of the Dripping Springs Independent School District, James Akers told board members the bare facts about masks in a speech he started fully clothed.

“I do not like the government, or any other entity, telling me what to do,” Akers said fully clothed, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “But sometimes I’ve got to push the envelope a little bit. And I’ve decided I’m not just going to talk about it, I’m going to walk the walk.”

He then pointed to the clothes he wore to the meeting and mentioned how he resented the workplace attire.

“At work they make me wear this jacket. I hate it,” he said, while removing the offending garment.

He continued: “They make me wear this shirt and tie. I hate it,” while taking those off.

Akers explained to the board that he ran three stop signs and four red lights on the way to the meeting, insisting he has “every right to drive as fast as I want to,” and added he took a handicapped-accessible parking space outside the meeting.

Akers stripped down to a bathing suit before making his real point: Rules exist for a reason.

“It’s simple protocol, people,” he said. “We follow certain rules. We follow certain rules for a very good reason.”

“There are too many voices out there that I think are digging in for political reasons, and absolutely just not thinking about the common sense decisions we make every day to comply with everything from driving down the road and being safe and courteous to other drivers to not parking in handicapped spots,” he said. “All these rules that we’re given every day that we follow, because they make sense.”
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
To have this Opinion, you have to ignore the delta strain. That low rate of death and hospitalizations are increasing substantially with the delta strain. The long term complications argument is a BS argument period, no matter what age group you are talking about because we haven't seen what the long term effect will be as there hasn't been enough time to learn what that will be, as we are still in the short term.

The fact that your positions is okay with ANY child dying, when measures can be put in place to reduce it even more, to almost non existent, is mind boggling, immoral, and simply wrong. You are also not taking into account all those people those children come into contact with who are adults and are at a higher risk of infection and death. You are saying you are okay with that extreme low death rate to includes your child, and their life is worth the risk to you. As well as all the parents, siblings, etc they come into contact with. I know you said it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong about your position, but it does matter. Being right just means you have to be uncomfortable for a while. IF you are wrong, it could cost your child's life, or others. That matters in every possible way in my book.

You've just completely ignored the entire point I've been making. Which makes you a dim bulb. Being self-righteous and thumping your chest doesn't brighten it either.

I don't even have a firm position on school mask mandates. It's not what I was even discussing. If you're going to reply, reply to the points I'm making or kindly do not reply at all.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,040
2,652
136
You've just completely ignored the entire point I've been making. Which makes you a dim bulb. Being self-righteous and thumping your chest doesn't brighten it either.

I don't even have a firm position on school mask mandates. It's not what I was even discussing. If you're going to reply, reply to the points I'm making or kindly do not reply at all.

What? So, we are only allowed to respond to only the parts you decide from your comments, and everything is off limits? I bold typed what I was referring to.. YOU fucking said it, which means it's fair game because YOU made the claim. And you call me a dim bulb? I replied to what you said! So fuck off you twisted lying fuck!
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Making his point in Tx.

Texas Dad Strips At School Board Meeting To Support COVID-19 Mask Mandates


During Monday night’s meeting of the Dripping Springs Independent School District, James Akers told board members the bare facts about masks in a speech he started fully clothed.

“I do not like the government, or any other entity, telling me what to do,” Akers said fully clothed, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “But sometimes I’ve got to push the envelope a little bit. And I’ve decided I’m not just going to talk about it, I’m going to walk the walk.”

He then pointed to the clothes he wore to the meeting and mentioned how he resented the workplace attire.

“At work they make me wear this jacket. I hate it,” he said, while removing the offending garment.

He continued: “They make me wear this shirt and tie. I hate it,” while taking those off.

Akers explained to the board that he ran three stop signs and four red lights on the way to the meeting, insisting he has “every right to drive as fast as I want to,” and added he took a handicapped-accessible parking space outside the meeting.

Akers stripped down to a bathing suit before making his real point: Rules exist for a reason.

“It’s simple protocol, people,” he said. “We follow certain rules. We follow certain rules for a very good reason.”

“There are too many voices out there that I think are digging in for political reasons, and absolutely just not thinking about the common sense decisions we make every day to comply with everything from driving down the road and being safe and courteous to other drivers to not parking in handicapped spots,” he said. “All these rules that we’re given every day that we follow, because they make sense.”
Luckily my school board has been very sane, especially for Oklahoma. But the school board I grew up in had been a bunch of dumb fucjsc and made national news a few times. I've thought about buying a throng and stripping down to it at a meeting where proof are taking shit the government doesn't have the right to tell them what to wear. Starting in a suit is a nice touch.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,745
40,188
136
Had a really depressing phone call yesterday, got to hear details of how it's going in South Florida. Related: that person's significant other threw in the towel, she's done being a nurse "until Ron DeSantis is gone and this state pulls it's head out of it's ass." "No more tears to cry."

Wished them good luck, but recommended they move to New England.

Also found out my own brother, who reluctantly acknowledged Trump was a huge mistake, is still thinking he doesn't need a vaccine. He came up to Maine to see family at camp. From Florida, to spend a week around at risk and too young to be vaccinated family members. I'm so mad at him I can't even see straight right now. Keep thinking about about your brother(s) Midnight. :persevere:
 
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PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
Making his point in Tx.

Texas Dad Strips At School Board Meeting To Support COVID-19 Mask Mandates


During Monday night’s meeting of the Dripping Springs Independent School District, James Akers told board members the bare facts about masks in a speech he started fully clothed.

“I do not like the government, or any other entity, telling me what to do,” Akers said fully clothed, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “But sometimes I’ve got to push the envelope a little bit. And I’ve decided I’m not just going to talk about it, I’m going to walk the walk.”

He then pointed to the clothes he wore to the meeting and mentioned how he resented the workplace attire.

“At work they make me wear this jacket. I hate it,” he said, while removing the offending garment.

He continued: “They make me wear this shirt and tie. I hate it,” while taking those off.

Akers explained to the board that he ran three stop signs and four red lights on the way to the meeting, insisting he has “every right to drive as fast as I want to,” and added he took a handicapped-accessible parking space outside the meeting.

Akers stripped down to a bathing suit before making his real point: Rules exist for a reason.

“It’s simple protocol, people,” he said. “We follow certain rules. We follow certain rules for a very good reason.”

“There are too many voices out there that I think are digging in for political reasons, and absolutely just not thinking about the common sense decisions we make every day to comply with everything from driving down the road and being safe and courteous to other drivers to not parking in handicapped spots,” he said. “All these rules that we’re given every day that we follow, because they make sense.”

Now this is reductio ad absurdum!

Unfortunately, they'll probably miss the point and decide that a ban on a ban on not wearing clothes makes sense.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,653
26,753
136
Had a really depressing phone call yesterday, got to hear details of how it's going in South Florida. Related: that person's significant other threw in the towel, she's done being a nurse "until Ron DeSantis is gone and this state pulls it's head out of it's ass." "No more tears to cry."

Wished them good luck, but recommended they move to New England.

Also found out my own brother, who reluctantly acknowledged Trump was a huge mistake, is still thinking he doesn't need a vaccine. He came up to Maine to see family at camp. From Florida, to spend a week around at risk and too young to be vaccinated family members. I'm so mad at him I can't even see straight right now. Keep thinking about about your brother(s) Midnight. :persevere:
My brother in law is in a huge fight with his family of Trump humpers. His parents and sister’s family want to visit and he is telling them no until they get vaccinated. His family dumbfounded and doesn’t understand why it’s a big deal. Meanwhile my sister is very happy he is standing up to them.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,248
16,716
136
My brother in law is in a huge fight with his family of Trump humpers. His parents and sister’s family want to visit and he is telling them no until they get vaccinated. His family dumbfounded and doesn’t understand why it’s a big deal. Meanwhile my sister is very happy he is standing up to them.

Have something similar with two friends. A dude we know is doing chemo and wants/needs all to be vaccinated to be around him. Two dudes flat out refuse to vaccinate.
Admittedly one has recovered from COVID but he just doesn’t understand why and keeps insisting he has superior protection for life.
Just get the damn shot.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,498
2,445
136
Have something similar with two friends. A dude we know is doing chemo and wants/needs all to be vaccinated to be around him. Two dudes flat out refuse to vaccinate.
Admittedly one has recovered from COVID but he just doesn’t understand why and keeps insisting he has superior protection for life.
Just get the damn shot.

But muh natural immunity. If it works for the common cold, it must work for covid right? Once you have the cold once you can never get it again.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,248
16,716
136
But muh natural immunity. If it works for the common cold, it must work for covid right? Once you have the cold once you can never get it again.

I get it and I sort of agree with him. I am sure recovering from covid without being aided makes your more resistant to infection. Point is right now it is not known for sure and what is the damn risk of being vaccinated. Plus it is well established that a recovery from covid PLUS vaccination gives you top tier protection so why not do it.
Maybe I will be proven wrong in the future but as of right now it is unknown how long natural protection lasts or how well it works.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,498
2,445
136
I get it and I sort of agree with him. I am sure recovering from covid without being aided makes your more resistant to infection. Point is right now it is not known for sure and what is the damn risk of being vaccinated. Plus it is well established that a recovery from covid PLUS vaccination gives you top tier protection so why not do it.
Maybe I will be proven wrong in the future but as of right now it is unknown how long natural protection lasts or how well it works.

There is no meaningful risk.

And being vaccinated gives you the all powerful vaccine card.

I was hesitant to get the vaccine early on due to autoimmune conditions I have. But once 30 million people had been vaccinated and there were no red flags I took the first opportunity I got to get vaccinated.

My partner and I were even sick back in Feb 2020 with presumed positive covid, unfortunately not tested due to a lack of test distribution to our area and extremely strict rules (you basically had to be ICU ventilator status here before they'd even bother testing you).

I won't take any risks because I'm not a fucking trogdolyte. Sure maybe I have natural immunity, I still got the vaccine. I still wear a mask everywhere in public even though I have no one to risk asymptomatically transmitting it to at home (we never stopped masking, although due to the delta surge mask mandates were reinstated here). I'm getting a booster shot as soon as I qualify.

These people conflate critical thinking, caution, and concern for the welfare of themselves and others with communism, government control, being a sheep, etc.

There is no excuse.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,735
28,908
136
What is "exactly the choice?"

The question is really this: how much personal liberty would you sacrifice for how much public or personal safety? Instead, you frame it as, you're either on one side or the other entirely, meaning no matter which way you vote, you are saying you don't support the other at all. That is a false dichotomy because I might choose safety in one case but personal liberty in another, depending on the particulars.

.
You example is theoretical. I'm asking it this way because is it the real world situation we face now. We know the particulars in this case.

Isn't the primary reason for mask wearing to mitigate the spread of virus from the wearer to others?
Is there a risk to the health of the wearer? We've seen that asked enough to know the answer is very little to none.

That being the case the reason for not wearing has to be something other then health risks to the wearer.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,185
2,232
136
Just found out the following this week. I'm in west central Florida.

- Neighbor down the street died from COVID. He was 61 and healthy from what I've heard. I didn't know him and don't know if he was vaccinated.

- Next door neighbor tested positive for COVID. She's in her late 70s and was vaccinated. She went to get monoclonal antibody treatment yesterday. I haven't heard how she did yet. Her husband is a trump supporter and used to try and convince my wife that COVID was a hoax at the beginning of the outbreak. He eventually got vaccinated.

- Went to the neighborhood grill today and it was partially open. Some of the staff tested positive for COVID. They are now in quarantine. The others tested negative. They had the grill sanitized and are only open for take out.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,745
40,188
136
My brother in law is in a huge fight with his family of Trump humpers. His parents and sister’s family want to visit and he is telling them no until they get vaccinated. His family dumbfounded and doesn’t understand why it’s a big deal. Meanwhile my sister is very happy he is standing up to them.

Good for him.

It's infuriating to me how much he's let down our mother. She's really hurt by his selfishness, his lack of regard for the wellbeing of other family members. He's been blacklisted from visiting until my kids are vaccinated, pretty sure others won't be extending invites either. I worry he is a future 'I wish I got the shot' video from someone in an ICU with days to live. I thought he was leaving Florida but I guess he's staying.
 
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Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,224
2,994
136
Wtf?!

“BREAKING: In a bizarre statement, Mississippi governor Tate Reeves says that people in Mississippi aren't very afraid of COVID because they "believe in eternal life.’”
Not sure how this would surprise anyone. Unless you mean the fact that he'd say it out loud.

One of my Evangelical relatives was arguing with me about climate change (of course it's not real to her) and I kept quoting studies from reputable sources. Her fallback: "End Times are coming." In other words, who cares, it's all going to shit anyway so might as well Yolo.

Once you reach the delusional stage where you believe in a sky fairy that reaches down and makes things happen (including touchdowns I guess going by the athletes pointing up!) then you'll just say to yourself that covid doesn't matter since you are going to live forever in paradise.

Which is fine, just sign a paper saying you won't clog up the hospitals if you do get deathly ill. Why would you go against God's will, he obviously wants you to die horribly unable to breathe.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,248
16,716
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Not sure how this would surprise anyone. Unless you mean the fact that he'd say it out loud.

One of my Evangelical relatives was arguing with me about climate change (of course it's not real to her) and I kept quoting studies from reputable sources. Her fallback: "End Times are coming." In other words, who cares, it's all going to shit anyway so might as well Yolo.

Once you reach the delusional stage where you believe in a sky fairy that reaches down and makes things happen (including touchdowns I guess going by the athletes pointing up!) then you'll just say to yourself that covid doesn't matter since you are going to live forever in paradise.

Which is fine, just sign a paper saying you won't clog up the hospitals if you do get deathly ill. Why would you go against God's will, he obviously wants you to die horribly unable to breathe.

It isn't that different that when COVID first hit and we heard guys who sound like him saying "Boomers understand they may die to save the economy"
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,938
9,221
136
It isn't that different that when COVID first hit and we heard guys who sound like him saying "Boomers understand they may die to save the economy"

Maybe we can convince all the evangelicals that COVID is the Rapture, and the only way to get to heaven is to stay unvaccinated, catch the virus and die. All the libs will be left behind.

Who am I kidding--they've probably already convinced themselves.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
I harped on Trump being a cult, and he was and it was true.
Now I harp (in a positive way) on masks and vaccines as the key to returning America back to normal. Such a small price to pay for beating the covid once and for all. We've paid higher prices in the past for the betterment of America.... like after 9/11 America experienced and put up with major changes in how we travel and how we prepare and how we react and how we live our lives. I know of one major company that actually built a duplicate headquarter facility in fear that Bin Laden might come and target THEM.

Or how about the price we paid to survive WWII. Women went to work replacing the men in the work force. How we built homes changed due to lack of steel and supplies. We rationed, we cut back, we came together to defeat Hitler and the Japanese, and yes we were willing to change as the patriots that we were.

Or how about previous pandemics and epidemics? We came together and defeated Polio, we wore masks during the flu epidemic of 1918, we came together during hurricanes and tornadoes and floods and blizzards. We even come together during nation wide gas shortages. You never heard people say IT'S MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT AND FREEDOM TO BE THE FIRST IN LINE FOR A GAS FILLUP. No, we took our place in line and waited our turn.

However, now all of that coming together for a cause and for the betterment of society, all that has disappeared. Disappeared along with common sense and sanity and logic and patriotism and with the lack of guidance from our religious leaders. Evangelist and Christianity have switched from preaching the bible to preaching Trump. To demonizing the very wearing of masks. To demonizing the vaccine. Yes, if you attend any pentecostal church or any church of the Evangelist, all you hear is in praise of Trump. And.... that coming directly from the pulpit.

It is a battle between good and evil, between sane and insanity, between true old fashion American patriotism vs the patriotism of the whiners and deniers. The disillusioned. The deceived. The Q. The deceptions of Donald Trump.

And another thing I keep harping on....
If one term of Donald Trump could have divided and harmed America to such an extent, then just imagine had we endured another four years of Donald Trump?
But I know, and I swear, and I have a gut feeling that if Trump had succeeded in 2020 it is highly probable that few of us would be alive today. I know that's hard to believe, but never underestimate Donald Trump. And remember, to do what Trump has done took him only four years. Four short years. And much of that still haunts us today. Trump haunts congress and governors and our science and our airwaves, plus some 70 million of his followers.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Maybe we can convince all the evangelicals that COVID is the Rapture, and the only way to get to heaven is to stay unvaccinated, catch the virus and die. All the libs will be left behind.

Who am I kidding--they've probably already convinced themselves.
The true believers won't try to get in the way of God's will by going to hospital.
 
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