TXAA Anti-Aliasing Makes Its Debut In Latest Update For The Secret World

f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
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Pixel crawling is dead

(and you don't need to sell both kidneys for appropriate hardware :thumbsup:)
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No anti-aliasing method currently in use can trully eliminate nasty pixel crawling aka temporal-aliasing aka shimmering.
If you are thinking supersampling - think again.
It is physically impossible to get rid of it while retaining the sharpness of untouched image, because animation of image with pixel sized frequency content gives raise to temporal-aliasing.

Some high-end AA solutions already provide great near pixel-crawling-free image quality, but this comes with high performance price,
as well as stumbling upon the same issue of blur/softness, that TXAA does.
(In the end dealing with it with increased texture resolution(negative LOD bias) and with anti-blur bits(NVIDIA).)
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Taken from http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/:

  • Anti-aliasing is always a trade off with sharpness, even when done correctly by super-sampling and a proper down-sampling filter.
    [*]There is a direct trade off between sharpness and temporal aliasing.

FILM AESTHETIC

Already have great solutions for the traditional ultra-sharp real-time graphics: MSAA or CSAA with a box filter. TXAA is not attempting to solve that problem, or replace current solutions, instead TXAA is designed to provide an extra anti-aliasing solution for those who want AA closer to film. The standard for film AA is 100% no aliasing in motion, and the result of this is an image which resizes well but is less sharp. See for yourself, press pause on any Blu Ray movie.

WHAT TO EXPECT VISUALLY

  • TXAA will look better in motion than on stills. In motion TXAA super-samples using samples from prior frames, on stills the number of samples is limited.
  • TXAA will significantly reduce temporal aliasing (flickering and crawling seen in motion). This is true even for current and traditional games which point sample lighting instead of using advanced methods to correctly integrate lighting over the area of the pixel.
  • TXAA will look better on alpha tested geometry like trees. TXAA uses a filter kernel which is slightly larger than a pixel, samples outside a pixel are used for improved filtering.
  • TXAA has correct filtering with HDR. For games which integrate correctly and place tone-mapping after the TXAA resolve, TXAA will have correct results on thin geometry and alpha-to-coverage. TXAA will have AA on high contrast HDR edges up to a point, but afterwords on ultra-bright edges, TXAA expects the game's bloom or diffusion filter to bleed over the edge hiding any aliasing. Games which lack a bloom filter might show some aliasing in those cases.
  • TXAA will be less sharp than other forms of filtering.
  • TXAA is a temporal method, but will not show ghosting. The quality of TXAA will however vary a little depending on how TXAA was integrated. Games with camera only motion vector fields will have baseline quality, those with dynamic option motion vector fields will have slightly better quality.


TSW NoAA/FXAA/MSAA/TXAA Video And Resize Comparison

TXAA sets kernel size to insure no temporal aliasing which results in a softer image compared to MSAA. In theory LOD bias would help here.
I also have two R&D efforts in progress to increase quality, one of which involves getting temporal sample position jitter blending without ghosting working well enough
(which would increase the number of effective samples/pixel) the other involves mixing with CSAA (which increases the number of coverage samples/pixel).
In theory additional samples will enable the filter kernel size to be decreased resulting in an increased sharpness with no temporal aliasing.

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TL;DR
If you require absolute crispness/sharpness - look elsewhere, TXAA is not for you.
But if you are annoyed by weaknesses in otherwise beautifully rendered image, and want consistent and distraction-free game experience, TXAA might be what you're looking for.
TXAA is for those who seek elimination of any and all artifacting, and want as clean image as possible, which in turn gives an ideal basis for seamless upscaling, resampling or resizing.

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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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HD video

- Pause at 0:20 seconds and compare the wall behind the female character on the left (no TXAA) and on the right (TXAA).
- Pause at 0:25 seconds and compare the floor
- Pause at 0:40 seconds and compare left side to the right side, look at the cobble stones. The blurring is so severe here, it makes my eyes bleed.

TXAA = Blur galore! It looks like you are playing a console game.

NV and AMD have been trying to claim for years now that these post-AA filtering methods are the future. Maybe they are from a performance point of view, but it looks like that future brings reduced texture and detail image quality, which imo are major advantages of PC games over console games.

That's not all. Not only do you lose details and get texture blur, the colors look like they are being washed out. Compare the auburn shade on the leaves tree on the far right.

txaa.jpg



Honestly with TXAA/FXAA/MLAA on some games look like you are playing on PS3. The darker areas look more grey and colors fade. Deep black levels is one of the main problems of LCD/LED tech and applying this filter only exacerbates the deep blacks issue.
 
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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
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I have to see it in person to make a judgement. So the game has to support txaa in order to enable it? There is no way to force that AA mode with an injector or something? I would like to see 4x MSAA vs FXAA vs 4X TXAA side by side by side.
 
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SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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I have Secret World, that seems to be a tremendous difference in the video. Will see if I can enable the feature this time.
 

f1sherman

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Apr 5, 2011
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@RussianSensation this is PC we're talking about.
Everything can be tweaked and adjusted.

Case in point:

1) Fire up Max Payne 3 and do your blur screenshot-inspecting,
2) Now compare that with Skyrim or any of the early FXAA games.
3) Compare Skyrim FXAA with my FXAA tweak


You should be more thoughtful with forwards looking expectations.

TXAA really is high quality next-gen AA,
and year from now this "BLUR GALORE" yelling of yours will look like a witch hunt.


In the meantime, enjoy your pixel crawling :)
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,818
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TXAA and other forms of shader based AA may not be perfect, but it's good to have the option. I'd rather have maxed out settings + TXAA than have to lower settings to get MSAA.

Shader based AA is definitely the future though. The tech is only going to get better at discerning edges and limiting screen blur as time goes on.
 

f1sherman

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Apr 5, 2011
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these post-AA filtering

Please don't spread disinformations. There is nothing post-AA about TXAA.


TXAA is a combination of hardware anti-aliasing, a custom anti-aliasing resolve, and a temporal filter.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
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I think this is being pushed for 2 reasons.

1) consoles may be able to use this and not impact fps too much.
2) MSAA uses more memoey and hammers fps sometimes. Uaing fxaa or TXAA will allow weaker cards to have some form of AA and perhaos bench favorably in reviews.

I did some digging and TXAA needs to be supported in the game. It cannot be globally applied like fxaa.

What is the concensus? If you have the horsepower for MSAA should you jusy use that or does anyone enable fxaa at the same time? Or fxaa alone?

TXAA is promising but having not seen it I cannot form a solid opinion. Supposedly unreal engine 4 and cryengine 3 are implimenting it.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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@RussianSensation this is PC we're talking about.
Everything can be tweaked and adjusted.

Case in point:

1) Fire up Max Payne 3 and do your blur screenshot-inspecting,
2) Now compare that with Skyrim or any of the early FXAA games.
3) Compare Skyrim FXAA with my FXAA tweak


You should be more thoughtful with forwards looking expectations.

TXAA really is high quality next-gen AA,
and year from now this "BLUR GALORE" yelling of yours will look like a witch hunt.


In the meantime, enjoy your pixel crawling :)

It's obvious in those motion examples provided by nVidia -- the key was the illustration on the side of the buildings -- massive aliasing with motion without AA or with FXAA -- that was going to be one of my test examples actually.
 

Bill Brasky

Diamond Member
May 18, 2006
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Yeah, I'll take a pass on those AA filters. They kill color depth and on my amd card, caused a noticeable input lag that wouldn't go away regardless of performance. I haven't tried it on the 670, but I really don't care to.

I this the same thing as MLAA on AMD cards? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but these filters only exist for games that don't play nice with MSAA right?
 

f1sherman

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Apr 5, 2011
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It's obvious in those motion examples provided by nVidia -- the key was the illustration on the side of the buildings -- massive aliasing with motion without AA or with FXAA -- that was going to be one of my test examples actually.

I reckon you would need 2x2 Supersampling to get rid of all that pixel crawling on fences, wires etc.
Doing that with only 2xMSAA penalty is truly astonishing.
There is price to be payed via softness, but the whole thing is brand new - it can only get better.

Damn, TXAA is still greyed out --can't enable it yet.

I told TL that they should have gone easier with softness, because of floor inspectors waiting to rip TXAA to shreds.

- Pause at 0:25 seconds and compare the floor

Maybe that's why it's being halted.
j/k dunno why it's not up.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,734
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That shader based AA sucks and is only good for weaker cards. I think nvidia is pushing this right now because their mid range 600 cards (670/680) can't handle real AA without busting their vram budget (ie Max Payne 3). Watch what happens when GK110 finally comes around. They will be praising it for its MSAA capabilities. Lets be honest, if you have the GPU power and Vram to spare, MSAA is much better.
 

Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
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So they devised a new "anti-aliasing" method just to make their cards look good.I don't think even Intel can afford such stupidity.
 

SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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I reckon you would need 2x2 Supersampling to get rid of all that pixel crawling on fences, wires etc.
Doing that with only 2xMSAA penalty is truly astonishing.
There is price to be payed via softness, but the whole thing is brand new - it can only get better.



I told TL that they should have gone easier with softness, because of floor inspectors waiting to rip TXAA to shreds.



Maybe that's why it's being halted.
j/k dunno why it's not up.

It's much more about motion than static images to me -- been consistent for over a decade.
 

f1sherman

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Apr 5, 2011
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^^ I thought that goes without saying.

From the creator of TXAA:

For many of you, the first response will be to judge TXAA compared to other AA or no-AA filters using still images,
and then remark how TXAA does look less aliased, but also looks less sharp.
This is the correct response too, because it is physically impossible to remove aliasing, especially temporal aliasing,
without resulting in a perceptual reduction of sharpness.
Motion however is where the real battle for AA is fought, and where TXAA really starts to shine compared to all prior methods.

For those who have a problem with lack of sharpness compared to no-AA GPU rendering, and judge AA techniques by still image screen shots,
I'd suggest pressing the pause button on your Blue-Ray player and take a look at one of the CG film shots in your favorite movie,
and then comment on sharpness.

If enough of you light up the forums I might be able to do a side project at NVIDIA
where we ship a video filter which makes movies look like traditional GPU rendering in games, something so sharp that your eyes will bleed.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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Please don't spread disinformations. There is nothing post-AA about TXAA.

Post-AA meaning after the era of MSAA. I never said this is a Post-processing filter technique like MLAA/FXAA are. These "post-AA" filtering methods such as FXAA/MLAA and TXAA are being pushed as next-generation to succeed traditional MSAA. The image quality for MLAA can work in some games such as Borderlands, in others it's a blur fest. Actually in most games both the FXAA and MLAA are a downgrade in image quality. There are some games that use it well such as MP3, but in most cases the blurring effect occurs. Having the option is great, but it's 1-step forward, 2 steps back in image quality. imo, Anti-aliasing <<<<< good colors, sharp textures and detail. Push comes to shove, I want a PC game to look like a PC game, not a console game. Consoles use FXAA and MLAA and it gives them that washed out/blurry look. TXAA looks to be no different in that video. If anything it reassures me how much more superior MSAA + Edge Detect/Transparency or SSAA are. With $400-500 GPUs, I'll take image quality over performance as long as the GPU is sufficient to run the game fast enough. Otherwise, I'd just buy a GTX560.
 
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SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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The key weakness with MLAA and FXAA is moving with-in an environment; the strength of TXAA is moving with-in an environment. To compare them is very odd.
 

RussianSensation

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Sep 5, 2003
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The key weakness with MLAA and FXAA is moving with-in an environment; the strength of TXAA is moving with-in an environment. To compare them is very odd.

Did you watch the video? In the moving video, it's blurry. Think about it, if you apply TXAA, and you blur 1 frame ---> 1,000 frames moving together are 1,000 blurry frames. The marketing department can spin it all they want, the blurring is there and the colours are washed out until there is a video that disproves it. This is the same thing we heard from both camps regarding MLAA/FXAA. Both of those ended up far inferior in motion to classical MSAA and especially SSAA. TXAA looks like it is basically Temporal FXAA. If anti-aliasing blurs the image you are looking at, the added benefit of anti-aliasing is defeated. Why do people buy 2560x1440/1600 screens and IPS monitors? I presume to get more accurate colours and more detail due to higher resolution. By applying these AA methods, the textures wash out and blacks get less deep. All it takes is to fire up BF3 to see how awful FXAA is sometimes. If TXAA doesn't fix the blur in motion, it's not moving forward.
 
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boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
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HD video

- Pause at 0:20 seconds and compare the wall behind the female character on the left (no TXAA) and on the right (TXAA).
- Pause at 0:25 seconds and compare the floor
- Pause at 0:40 seconds and compare left side to the right side, look at the cobble stones. The blurring is so severe here, it makes my eyes bleed.

TXAA = Blur galore! It looks like you are playing a console game.

NV and AMD have been trying to claim for years now that these post-AA filtering methods are the future. Maybe they are from a performance point of view, but it looks like that future brings reduced texture and detail image quality, which imo are major advantages of PC games over console games.

That's not all. Not only do you lose details and get texture blur, the colors look like they are being washed out. Compare the auburn shade on the leaves tree on the far right.

txaa.jpg



Honestly with TXAA/FXAA/MLAA on some games look like you are playing on PS3. The darker areas look more grey and colors fade. Deep black levels is one of the main problems of LCD/LED tech and applying this filter only exacerbates the deep blacks issue.

100% agree. This seems much much worse than FXAA in terms of blur. Aliasing is gone - but so is much of the texture detail. I was hoping, it would be better :(

Nothing beats SGSSAA, nothing. Nvidia should make that official and support it more (LOD adjustment in DX10/11...it's coming finally). We have enough graphics power to use it in many titles except the newest ones.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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What the hell? I play TSW and the option is not working. It definitely doesn't work in the latest patched build, not sure whats going on here.

I don't think this game would lend itself much to better anti aliasing. The best image quality stuff is from the atmospheric stuff, sky/shadows, etc.