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Two years with Windows Vista!
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1. Legacy apps need to be taken into consideration in a corp enviornment. That said plans should be made to migrate off those legacy apps.
2. I dont know why Vista wireless wouldnt work while XP's does.
3. Sounds like a DNS issue imo.
4. If you pay 4K for a license and they wont support Vista. You arent getting anything for that 4K. Drop that company like a rock.
5. Yell at ATI. They are the company who supports your TV card. They should have had drivers on day 1.
Sounds to me like you are blaming the wrong people. The companies who fail to support their own products are to blame. Not Microsoft. Microsoft cant control or force these companies to get off their ass and earn their money.
earthman
Golden Member
"Ignorance"? Well, ignorance is bliss, and you guys seem to be in a state of bliss, so what more can be said? I hope your cramps from laughing too hard weren't too severe. I arrived at my opinions based on experience, nothing else. If I saw Vista working great and thought it was a great product, I'd say that. Nobody pays me one way or another. I don't consider myself particularly incompetent, either, and I don't think it would be appropriate to tell a customer that they are incompetent. The fact that a majority of people who use computers on a daily basis may not be all that competent is not an excuse, it's a reality one has to deal with. The fact that Microsoft actually had to offer a "downgrade" speaks volumes. The software I was referring to doesn't have a viable equivalent, it can't be "dropped" so easily, when your whole business depends on it. Once again, your solution is to pat MS on the back and call the small developers and end users idiots for not being able to handle the changes. Alot of the driver problems with things like TV cards are directly due to the DRM/security model in Vista. Microsoft has been trying hard to sell a DRM model to the big studios who want to control all content, in the same way MS would like to control all software. They didn't get it right, but they're not giving up, rest assured. I'm not going to comment anymore on this because you can't argue with fanboys who label all criticism "FUD". Keep beating those drums though, everyone will come around eventually. I'm sure in 2015 Microsoft will be offering a Vista downgrade to satisfy those that will love it too much to part with it.
soonerproud
Golden Member
Yet you keep spouting ignorance. Microsoft has offered downgrade rights to business customers on every version of Windows they released, including XP. The DRM stuff has already been thoroughly debunked, yet you continue to spout an argument that was proven wrong more than a year ago.
Busting The Fud About Vista's DRM
You have never mentioned the name of this mythical $4000 software you keep talking about from 2006, yet continue to use it as some kind of proof Microsoft is to blame for the developers incompetence.
Microsoft has no choice but to include DRM because the studios will not allow playback of protected content without it. Apple's OSX has DRM baked in for this very same reason. As long as you do not play protected content, the DRM will never affect you.
The driver issue is because ATI decided to make Vista users buy new hardware instead of supporting the older hardware on Vista. It has nothing to do with DRM, but everything to do with economics. It is not Microsoft's fault that ATI refuses to support your hardware.
As far as customer incompetence goes, it is supposed to be your job to help your customers understand the issues involved in switching to Vista. You are the one that is incompetent because you refuse to get with the times and both learn and support Vista. I would not give some one my business that refuses to get with the program. I really feel sorry for your customers.
Clearly you are being paid by Steve Ballmer. We know this because the "tech media" has incessantly told us that Vista's adoption rates are very poor compared to XP. See...
Intel upgrades to Windows 2000 six months after Windows XP was released:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/...chooses-w2k-over-winxp
Sluggish corporate adoption of Windows XP:
http://www.computerworld.com/p...2/0,4814,74276,00.html
Microsoft offers new licensing terms and other incentives to jump-start stalled corporate XP adoption:
http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18821819
Three years after release, XP uptake still too slow:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/softwa...21,39151481,00.htm?r=8
Four long years after XP release, more corporate desktops still using Windows 2000:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windo...Win-2000-by-Years-End/
Oh, wait...
Earthman, your credibility is pretty low until this $4000 piece of software is named... seriously what is the secret?
But the wider point people are trying to get across, is that what you are doing in your posts is the equivalent of bitching about Ford not fixing the Sony stereo you bought from Target, and was installed by some local mechanic. You don't seem to understand the basic market economy!
I would give the exact same defence of Linux and or Apple if that is what you were being so flat-out wrong about... but I am pretty sure this mythical software company doesn't support installation on those OS'es either 😉
But the wider point people are trying to get across, is that what you are doing in your posts is the equivalent of bitching about Ford not fixing the Sony stereo you bought from Target, and was installed by some local mechanic. You don't seem to understand the basic market economy!
I would give the exact same defence of Linux and or Apple if that is what you were being so flat-out wrong about... but I am pretty sure this mythical software company doesn't support installation on those OS'es either 😉
soonerproud
Golden Member
I think the point he is trying to make is that most of the anti-Vista arguments and press coverage are just regurgitated from when XP was launched. It is amazing how similar the articles about XP are to the current ones about Vista.
Griffinhart
Golden Member
In May, a friend and his wife were looking to buy two computers since their aging AGP systems were really badly out of date. They approached me with several options and wanted my opinion on a couple of systems they were thinking of buying and they were extremely worried about buying a computer with Vista installed.
After taking a look at the specs of what they were looking at, I offered to build them two identical PC's at a cheaper price than the on-line site was offering. I spent a little time looking at different components to ensure a good solid system and had them order the parts and have delivered directly to me.
When I assembled the systems I pondered what operating system. At first I considered XP since they were worried about Vista and they would be their PCs once it left my house. I inquired about what hardware they were going to plug into the computers and saw that there were Vista drivers for all of it. So, I decided on Vista instead. Since they were getting 4GB system I decided to go with the 64bit version of Vista Home Premium (OEM) for both machines.
I did everything that a good PC supplier should do. I installed what the needed and nothing more.
-Avast Anti-Virus
-Open Office
-All the latest drivers and Video codecs.
-Some troubleshooting tools in case I needed to help them with a problem.
I made sure they had a nice clean boot process with nothing trying to start up that didn't need to. I left UAC on and explained to them how it works and why they should leave it on, but, I also told them how they could disable it if they really wanted to.
A few days after they took the PCs home my friends wife called me with a problem. She had installed her Kodak Camera's software and suddenly her DVD drive vanished from the OS. I did a quick google search and found a registry fix for a similar problem in XP. The fix worked under Vista as well. I had her go to Kodak's website and we found a brand new Vista version of her software. Everything worked perfectly and she was happily on her way.
The other day we were all playing an online game and she messaged me that she was extremely happy that they decided to go to Vista. She liked it a lot and was very satisfied with the whole thing. I was curious, so I asked if they still used UAC. She said they still do and that it hasn't been a pain to live with it.
Of course, this is only anecdotal. Both of them are regular computer users and not total PC newbs, but neither of them could be classified as techy either. I think it just shows how a properly installed Vista system not overloaded with bloatware is a perfectly fine system. Even the 64-bit version for an average Windows user.
After taking a look at the specs of what they were looking at, I offered to build them two identical PC's at a cheaper price than the on-line site was offering. I spent a little time looking at different components to ensure a good solid system and had them order the parts and have delivered directly to me.
When I assembled the systems I pondered what operating system. At first I considered XP since they were worried about Vista and they would be their PCs once it left my house. I inquired about what hardware they were going to plug into the computers and saw that there were Vista drivers for all of it. So, I decided on Vista instead. Since they were getting 4GB system I decided to go with the 64bit version of Vista Home Premium (OEM) for both machines.
I did everything that a good PC supplier should do. I installed what the needed and nothing more.
-Avast Anti-Virus
-Open Office
-All the latest drivers and Video codecs.
-Some troubleshooting tools in case I needed to help them with a problem.
I made sure they had a nice clean boot process with nothing trying to start up that didn't need to. I left UAC on and explained to them how it works and why they should leave it on, but, I also told them how they could disable it if they really wanted to.
A few days after they took the PCs home my friends wife called me with a problem. She had installed her Kodak Camera's software and suddenly her DVD drive vanished from the OS. I did a quick google search and found a registry fix for a similar problem in XP. The fix worked under Vista as well. I had her go to Kodak's website and we found a brand new Vista version of her software. Everything worked perfectly and she was happily on her way.
The other day we were all playing an online game and she messaged me that she was extremely happy that they decided to go to Vista. She liked it a lot and was very satisfied with the whole thing. I was curious, so I asked if they still used UAC. She said they still do and that it hasn't been a pain to live with it.
Of course, this is only anecdotal. Both of them are regular computer users and not total PC newbs, but neither of them could be classified as techy either. I think it just shows how a properly installed Vista system not overloaded with bloatware is a perfectly fine system. Even the 64-bit version for an average Windows user.
WT
Diamond Member
Yet another Power Together geek here ... I just upgraded that Business copy to an Ultimate version from the other MS freebie promotion (the monitoring software one). That freed up the Business license so I loaded that on another PC. Only two things about Vista that annoy me on a daily basis. One, my folder icons continue to change their default icon size seemingly at random. Its set for a medium icon size, but at least twice a week I find it changes to another size. Second, every so often when I right click on a file to look at its properties, it will take over 20+ seconds, or even require a second right click to bring up the context menu. This occurs on the older Business or the Ultimate install .. same thing on the same PC in essence.
earthman
Golden Member
I wasn't going to reply here because its a fanboy post, pure and simple.
But:
1. There are reasons why I am not going to bring a 3rd party into this. Mainly, its not fair. Suffice to say, the software in question uses SQL Server 2000 and MSDE. I'm sure you competent Windows guys know immediately that those products are NOT compatible with Vista. Considering that the last update was three years in the making, you see why migrating to Vista is not an immediate option. Are the developers slow, lazy, incompetent? Maybe. When will the application be updated? Only they know.
2. The other software I referenced obliquely was ACT!2007. Now I know this is crap software, but it also uses SQL Server 2000, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. I know I could not get it to work even as a client after many tries.
3. I do not get to control what software customers use, nor can I necessarily influence what they WANT to use, or THINK they should use. They may have already invested substantial time and money in something that they are comfortable with. Alot of people I work with don't NEED Windows at all. I cringe when I see how many thousands of dollars they have spent on MS and other name brand software that is either not necessary or barely works. As a self-employed freelancer, I have to be diplomatic...and cheap, or they'll go somewhere else. The customer that used to be my biggest payer doesn't call me anymore, partly because of issues with ACT! and Quickbooks Enterprise that I couldn't solve because there were no solutions available.
4. Alot of people are comfortable with XP, they've learned to work with it and they like it. They don't want to learn something new. They don't want to buy something new. They have P4 workstations that have integrated video and not much RAM. I'm not going to push something on them that I know won't work right. I'm not a salesman for Microsoft, it's not my job to push their products. Some of the statements you guys made above imply that it's the job of an IT person to sell Windows upgrades. It's not. Nor do I have time to field the endless questions I would have to with a new and unfamiliar OS.
5. Someone implied that I am a fan of Apple. That is not the case. While I think OSX is pretty good, Apple is a lousy, arrogant company, worse than MS. I got rid of all my Mac stuff because I was tired of dealing with overpriced, non-upgradeable hardware.
6. Alot of my issues with Microsoft have alot more to do with their past business practices and licensing models, rather than their products. Ask someone who's been hammered by the Business Software Alliance what they think of Microsoft.
7. You can call me ignorant, Luddite, incompetent all you like, I consider myself merely an impartial critic. With all the controversies, failures, security issues, corporate malfeasance, lawsuits, fines, and general screwups that Microsoft has committed, you are the ones who should be embarrassed. Given that you are not, I wonder who is really ignorant here.
But:
1. There are reasons why I am not going to bring a 3rd party into this. Mainly, its not fair. Suffice to say, the software in question uses SQL Server 2000 and MSDE. I'm sure you competent Windows guys know immediately that those products are NOT compatible with Vista. Considering that the last update was three years in the making, you see why migrating to Vista is not an immediate option. Are the developers slow, lazy, incompetent? Maybe. When will the application be updated? Only they know.
2. The other software I referenced obliquely was ACT!2007. Now I know this is crap software, but it also uses SQL Server 2000, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. I know I could not get it to work even as a client after many tries.
3. I do not get to control what software customers use, nor can I necessarily influence what they WANT to use, or THINK they should use. They may have already invested substantial time and money in something that they are comfortable with. Alot of people I work with don't NEED Windows at all. I cringe when I see how many thousands of dollars they have spent on MS and other name brand software that is either not necessary or barely works. As a self-employed freelancer, I have to be diplomatic...and cheap, or they'll go somewhere else. The customer that used to be my biggest payer doesn't call me anymore, partly because of issues with ACT! and Quickbooks Enterprise that I couldn't solve because there were no solutions available.
4. Alot of people are comfortable with XP, they've learned to work with it and they like it. They don't want to learn something new. They don't want to buy something new. They have P4 workstations that have integrated video and not much RAM. I'm not going to push something on them that I know won't work right. I'm not a salesman for Microsoft, it's not my job to push their products. Some of the statements you guys made above imply that it's the job of an IT person to sell Windows upgrades. It's not. Nor do I have time to field the endless questions I would have to with a new and unfamiliar OS.
5. Someone implied that I am a fan of Apple. That is not the case. While I think OSX is pretty good, Apple is a lousy, arrogant company, worse than MS. I got rid of all my Mac stuff because I was tired of dealing with overpriced, non-upgradeable hardware.
6. Alot of my issues with Microsoft have alot more to do with their past business practices and licensing models, rather than their products. Ask someone who's been hammered by the Business Software Alliance what they think of Microsoft.
7. You can call me ignorant, Luddite, incompetent all you like, I consider myself merely an impartial critic. With all the controversies, failures, security issues, corporate malfeasance, lawsuits, fines, and general screwups that Microsoft has committed, you are the ones who should be embarrassed. Given that you are not, I wonder who is really ignorant here.
soonerproud
Golden Member
If your replies would have been more like this to begin with, I would not have called you incompetent. These are real issue and no one here is going to deny that or say that Vista is right for all people/customers. I only called you ignorant because many of the so called issues you brought up before like DRM were just plain wrong.
I don't have any problem with preferring open source solutions to closed source ones. More people should investigate open source solutions as viable alternatives to expensive proprietary products, when that makes sense.
Lets start over by me saying that after this post, I now know where you are coming from and am sorry for disparaging you in any way.
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