Two WRT54g's together

[suklee]

2/6/05
Success! Thanks skyking.... I did flash both routers and followed some guides I found on the net. My xbox is now able to communicate wirelessly via the WRT54G in the living room


PS. if anyone cares, the links I used are

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=837246&page=1
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7


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I have an existing WRT54G working as a wireless router. I now want to add a second WRT54G as a client mode only and hook up one extra computer. (I'm assuming I don't need "WDS", I just want it to act as a simple client)

WRT1 - version 1.1 Firmware v2.02.7 (official Linksys)
WRT2 - version 2.0 Firmware Alchemy-6.0-RC5a v3.01.3.8sv

First of all, do both routers need to be flashed to the same version of Alchemy software?

My config is:

WRT1 - DHCP on
IP 192.168.1.1
connected to DSL modem with stable internet connection
serves wireless laptops perfectly

WRT2 - Client mode - DHCP off
IP 192.168.1.2
Gateway 192.168.1.1
same SSID as WRT1

For trial and error I've even disabled all wireless security, but I still can't ping 192.168.1.1 from behind WRT2. What's wrong?

My computer's config, behind WRT2:
IP 192.168.1.123 (static)
Gateway 192.168.1.1

 

[suklee]

anyone?

 

[skyking]

I used the satori firmware, set up WDS as it is laid out in the tutorials, and it works fine. I would not have the same ssid on those things though. I set it up with two different ones, and I have three client machines on the remote router, both wired and wireless.

 

[suklee]

What's the advantage of having WDS? (Wireless Distribution System) I'm kinda assuming it's overkill for my needs...

If I do that I would HAVE to flash both routers wouldn't I.

 

[skyking]

yes, you'd have to flash both routers. Overkill? It just works, that is all I can say about it.
It increases your wireless covered area to include the range of the remote machine, that is all it really means.

 

[suklee]

OK, thanks I guess I'll give it a go. Just surprised it wasn't as easy as switching router 2 to "client mode" and hopping onto the network. There must be something I overlooked...

 

[suklee]

Success! Thanks skyking.... I did flash both routers and followed some guides I found on the net. My xbox is now able to communicate wirelessly via the WRT54G in the living room


PS. if anyone cares, the links I used are

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=837246&page=1
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7

 

[skyking]

Congratulations! I figured you'd find the same links I did. I have it working nicely between an office and a house 200' away, with no special antennas. I have the master router near a window, and the slave in the house is only behind a window and overhanging roof.
I commonly get 18mbps between the two, and sometimes 24.
The slave unit is hooked up to 3 drops in the house, and also wirelessly to a computer in an older part of the house we cannot get wire to easily.

 

[user1234]

I also got my wrt54g running in client mode - that is, it serves as a bridge between another PC and the main wireless router. Here's my complete setup, starting with the wired connections (markeded by "<====>"):

Room 1: Cable Modem <===> D-Link DI-624 Wireless Router <===> PC-1
Room 2: WRT45G <==> PC-2

Note that the DI-624 and the WRT54G connect to each other wirelessly. I also have a mobile laptop which connects wirelessly to the DI-624.
So in this case, the WRT54G let me use PC-2 without having a wifi card in that PC. In fact, I could connect up to 4 PCs to the wrt54g, and save the price of 4 wifi-54g pci cards, plus you don't have to install drivers for wifi cards (a pain in Linux). The wrt54g acts like a "wireless ethernet bridge", which in fact is another product sold by linksys (WET54G) for around $150. This is also useful when you have devices which can only connect using a ethernet cable, but cannot connect wirelessly - like XBOX !

So how do you do it ? Here's the list of steps - you should be doing these steps (except step 1) from a PC connected (wired) to the wrt54g (e.g. PC-2 in my setup). Note that this doesn't require any changes to your main router's configuration, so it's quite safe with regard to not messing up your current networks' setup.

1. Download the "wrt54g alchemy firmware" (google this) version 6rc5 from the internet (it is the only one compatible with the new models wrt54g V2.2 & wrt54gs V1.1).
2. Upload the firmware to the wrt54g via the "Administration->Firmware Upgrade" option in the router's web interface.
3. Reset the device (press reset button until power led flashes).

4. In Setup->Basic setup, use "Auotomatic Configuration - DHCP" for Internet connection type. Leave the local IP at 192.168.1.1, unless your main router also uses the 192.168.1 subnet prefix, in which case you sohuld change it to 192.168.0.1 for example (if you need to do that, you'll have to reboot your PC). Set the gateway to the address of your main router. You can leave the DHCP Server enabled, because it is useful in assigning IPs to the devices attached to the wrt54g. Note that you don't have to use DHCP server, but it usually makes things simpler.

5. In Setup->Advanced Routing, make sure operating mode is "Gateway".

6. In Wireless->Basic Settings, set Wireless mode to "Client", wireless network mode to b/g/mixed, and SSID to your main wireless router's SSID.

7. In Wireless->Security, set yor WEP/WPA settings which match the main wireless router. You should now be connected to the main wireless router. Check the logs on the main router to verify.

8. Under security, disable firewall protection, as this subnet is already behind your main router's firewall.

9. In administration, make sure "DNS Netmaq" is enabled. Also, you can enable telnet and remote admin, especially if you want to be able to log in to the wrt54g from a computer which is not attached to it.

So in summary, you don't need two wrt54g routers. A single wrt54g (with the right firmware) can operate as a "client" of any dsl/cable wireless router, and create a bridge so any device connected to it will be able to access your network and the internet. It's actually quite simple, but it's even simpler to get confused by all the bozos which spread wrong information online. The above works great for me, but I haven't yet tried to connect more than one PC to the wrt54g, nor did I try to connect a wireless client to it (thus it would also be acting as an access point which extends your original wireless network), but I believe there shouldn't be any problems doing that.

 

[skyking]

Thanks for posting that. Your solution works fine for internet access. Essentially, you have a double natted network, with device 2's computers being on a different class "c".
The downside is it creates two distinct networks.

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: user1234
So in summary, you don't need two wrt54g routers. A single wrt54g (with the right firmware) can operate as a "client" of any dsl/cable wireless router, and create a bridge so any device connected to it will be able to access your network and the internet. It's actually quite simple, but it's even simpler to get confused by all the bozos which spread wrong information online. The above works great for me, but I haven't yet tried to connect more than one PC to the wrt54g, nor did I try to connect a wireless client to it (thus it would also be acting as an access point which extends your original wireless network), but I believe there shouldn't be any problems doing that.

Good post. This was what I wanted to do all along, but for some reason I couldn't get my second WRT54G to connect to the first router as a "client". Maybe the key was DNS Netmaq?? I have no idea what this does but I did not touch this setting. Everything else in your mini guide I had done already...

In my scenario, the two wireless routers are actually quite close together. I wonder if WDS in a 'confined' space can have adverse effects on performance?

 

[skyking]

If i read his post correctly, the computer connected to the access point will be on a different class "c". It would be able to connect to the internet, but not necessarily to the computers connected to the gateway. on the other hand, your current setup makes one contiguous network on one class "c".

 

[user1234]

Originally posted by: skyking
If i read his post correctly, the computer connected to the access point will be on a different class "c". It would be able to connect to the internet, but not necessarily to the computers connected to the gateway. on the other hand, your current setup makes one contiguous network on one class "c".

Well, you're right that this setup has some limitations, but the computer connected to the "client" access point (wrt54g) can indeed connect to any of the computers on the main subnet, because the wrt54g will forward requests addressed outside its own subnet, to its gateway, which is the main router, which will then forward it to the correct machine on the main subnet. The only limitation is if a computer connected to the main router needs to connect to a PC on the client router's subnet. This will not work, since the main router will just forward it to the WAN (internet) because it's not really aware of the client router's subnet (the devices attached to the wrt54g). On my D-Link DI-624 there is no way to teach the router that it has a client router with its own separate subnet, which all datagrams addressed to 192.168.1.xxx should go to, because the DI-624 is not programmable like the wrt-624 is, so you can't change its routing tables. So to enable computers attached to the main router to connect to computers attached to the client router, I have to add a rouing table entry to each of the computers on the main subnet.

For example, in my case the main router (DI-624) is 192.168.0.1 and PC-1 attached to it is 192.168.0.101. The wrt54g is 192.168.1.1 and its attached PC-2 is 192.168.1.100. Also the wrt54g gets a dynamic IP from the DI-624 which is 192.168.0.112 (DI-624 allows static DHCP, so I can make sure it always gives the same IP to each physical device). So I can always access the wrt54g using this address (e.g. http: //192.168.0.112), from any PC attached to the main router (e.g. PC-1), assuming remote administration is enabled on the wrt54g, like I suggested in the steps above. But to get PC-1 to access PC-2, I have to instruct it to route requests addressed to 192.168.1.xxx thru the wrt54g, like this:

# route add -net 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192.168.0.112

I have to do the above on every PC attached to the main router. But if your main router is also a wrt54g, you could try adding this entry on the main router, and it should then route request to connect to the client subnet correctly, for all its attached PCs.

I guess other configurations can also work. You don't have to use DHCP in the wrt54g in either client or server mode, which would be simpler especially if your main router doesn't have static DHCP. Also I plan to try to put everything into one subnet, and trying WDS which could be better at handling roaming between access points. But if you just want to use the wrt54g as a wireless bridge, the setup I described is a good solution.

 

[user1234]

Originally posted by: skyking
I used the satori firmware, set up WDS as it is laid out in the tutorials, and it works fine. I would not have the same ssid on those things though. I set it up with two different ones, and I have three client machines on the remote router, both wired and wireless.

How would this work with two different SSIDs ? doesn't this mean that the client router has to use 2 SSIDs - one to talk to the main router, and another to talk to its own clients ? Is that really possible, given that that it has only a single wireless network interface ?!?!

 

[skyking]

It works fine. the gateway is ssid#1 and the remote unit is ssid#2.

 

[user1234]

Originally posted by: skyking
It works fine. the gateway is ssid#1 and the remote unit is ssid#2.

I agree that one contigous network would be preferable and nicer, but it didn't work for me with the DI-624 as the main router. Do you know if you need the main router to also be a wrt54g with special firmware to make this work ? Can one of you post the complete configuration you used in both routers to create the single contiguous network ? I would like to know if I can do this with my existing d-link main router. Also the idea of two different SSIDs sounds good as a wireless client can easily tell which AP they're talking to, so it's simple to can keep track of the roaming situation.

 

[skyking]

The links posted by the Original Poster detail how I did it.

 

[user1234]

Originally posted by: skyking
The links posted by the Original Poster detail how I did it.

Can you please summarize your settings here like I did ?

 

[skyking]

The 5th post down on this link is what I did.

 

[user1234]

I see, you need two wrt54g with the special firmware for this wds mode. But I think my client mode setup is useful to more people who want to extend their network using a wireless bridge. Having two networks is not really a serious problem at all, as double NAT doesn't incur a performance hit at all. Throuput is great - I'm getting 20 mbps btween the routers, and online response time is also good, as I'm able to play ut2004 flawlessly on a linux box connected to the client router (wrt54g). And I don't need to mess around with setting up wifi cards in Linux using the non existent driver support the most manufacturers currently have on Linux.

 

[jbaggins]

Sorry for the noob question, but is it possible, if someone has two wrt54g's to use one as the main router and one as a WIRELESS access point?

I.E. the second router has no cable connection with the first router, yet can be used to extend the range? i.e. it is completely wireless (except for power of course), and can be kept 40-50 feet away from the first router to extend internet coverage? the guy at microcenter said you can do it, but the linksys guy says you will need to have a data cable from one router to the other.

I called linksys and the guy suggested I buy the wre54G expander. that will cost me about 40 dollars more than the second router did. I picked up two wrt54g's from frys for about 40 each. I can still return the second one though, as it is not opened.

my goal is to extend the range of the internet signal from the main router, with NO WIRES.

Originally posted by: Kai920
Success! Thanks skyking.... I did flash both routers and followed some guides I found on the net. My xbox is now able to communicate wirelessly via the WRT54G in the living room


PS. if anyone cares, the links I used are

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=837246&page=1
http://www.linksysinfo.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7

 

[skyking]

it is easy, using any one of the many aftermarket firmwares that have WDS.
With WDS, the second router becomes an extension of your network, both as a wireless access point and also by plugging computers into the 4 ports on the router.
The last one I set up using DD-WRT

Simply flash the firmware on each router, using a computer connected to a port. Never flash firmware using a wireless link.
Set the master router as xxx.xx.xxx.1, and the remote as xxx.xxx.xxx.2
Turn off the DHCP server on the second router.
get the wireless MAC address from each router, which can be found at the status:wireless page.
go to the wireless tab, then the WDS tab. Select LAN in the first dropdown, and put the MAC address of the other router in the adjoining space there.
Leave the rest of the settings at default there.
Go to the other router and repeat above.
Now the two routers "know" each other by MAC address.
the two routers will be using the default settings and channel. If you want to change channels, be sure to do it in both devices.
I can get WEP to work, but not WPA.

 

[jbaggins]

Excellent response. Thank you very much. The instructions are clear enough. I will try it out tommorow.

with regards to firmware with WDS, do you know which one is the most stable and tried and tested that has WDS? thanks

Originally posted by: skyking
it is easy, using any one of the many aftermarket firmwares that have WDS.
With WDS, the second router becomes an extension of your network, both as a wireless access point and also by plugging computers into the 4 ports on the router.
The last one I set up using DD-WRT

Simply flash the firmware on each router, using a computer connected to a port. Never flash firmware using a wireless link.
Set the master router as xxx.xx.xxx.1, and the remote as xxx.xxx.xxx.2
Turn off the DHCP server on the second router.
get the wireless MAC address from each router, which can be found at the status:wireless page.
go to the wireless tab, then the WDS tab. Select LAN in the first dropdown, and put the MAC address of the other router in the adjoining space there.
Leave the rest of the settings at default there.
Go to the other router and repeat above.
Now the two routers "know" each other by MAC address.
the two routers will be using the default settings and channel. If you want to change channels, be sure to do it in both devices.
I can get WEP to work, but not WPA.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: skyking
it is easy, using any one of the many aftermarket firmwares that have WDS.
With WDS, the second router becomes an extension of your network, both as a wireless access point and also by plugging computers into the 4 ports on the router.
The last one I set up using DD-WRT

Simply flash the firmware on each router, using a computer connected to a port. Never flash firmware using a wireless link.
Set the master router as xxx.xx.xxx.1, and the remote as xxx.xxx.xxx.2
Turn off the DHCP server on the second router.
get the wireless MAC address from each router, which can be found at the status:wireless page.
go to the wireless tab, then the WDS tab. Select LAN in the first dropdown, and put the MAC address of the other router in the adjoining space there.
Leave the rest of the settings at default there.
Go to the other router and repeat above.
Now the two routers "know" each other by MAC address.
the two routers will be using the default settings and channel. If you want to change channels, be sure to do it in both devices.
I can get WEP to work, but not WPA.

You know why? Because there is an issue with WPA syncing up between the two Linksys APs. You can do WEP all day long, but turn on WPA and watch everything fall apart. And quite frankly, since a 128bit WEP key can be hacked in less than a minute, it's WPA or nothing with me. But if you are fine with WEP encryption, have at it. I know you found it exciting to have it all working, but no WPA support is a BIG TIME deal breaker for me.

 

[jbaggins]

this will be for an office. security is important. does wep suck that bad?

thanks

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: skyking
it is easy, using any one of the many aftermarket firmwares that have WDS.
With WDS, the second router becomes an extension of your network, both as a wireless access point and also by plugging computers into the 4 ports on the router.
The last one I set up using DD-WRT

Simply flash the firmware on each router, using a computer connected to a port. Never flash firmware using a wireless link.
Set the master router as xxx.xx.xxx.1, and the remote as xxx.xxx.xxx.2
Turn off the DHCP server on the second router.
get the wireless MAC address from each router, which can be found at the status:wireless page.
go to the wireless tab, then the WDS tab. Select LAN in the first dropdown, and put the MAC address of the other router in the adjoining space there.
Leave the rest of the settings at default there.
Go to the other router and repeat above.
Now the two routers "know" each other by MAC address.
the two routers will be using the default settings and channel. If you want to change channels, be sure to do it in both devices.
I can get WEP to work, but not WPA.

You know why? Because there is an issue with WPA syncing up between the two Linksys APs. You can do WEP all day long, but turn on WPA and watch everything fall apart. And quite frankly, since a 128bit WEP key can be hacked in less than a minute, it's WPA or nothing with me. But if you are fine with WEP encryption, have at it. I know you found it exciting to have it all working, but no WPA support is a BIG TIME deal breaker for me.