Two US Jewish advocasy groups debate inside the Israeli partliment

[Lemon law]

We all know the the American Aipac is a powerful political force inside of the USA, but a left wing alternative called JStreet now has 170,000 members and is growing USA Jewish membership, especially among the American Jewish youth.

Both Aipac and JStreet recently met in a heated debate inside of the Israeli Parliament and
a fierce debate resulted.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/world/middleeast/25israel.html?_r=1&ref=israel

But what it boils down to, is must an American Jewish advocacy groups automatically take the position of Israel right or wrong, or is JStreet correct in saying American support will end up being conditional on the Government of Israel's behavior. Which advocacy position will end up best for the Israeli State in the long run?

As we already know, this Israeli is always right position has taken a big beating in about every international nation in the world except the USA in the past 20 years. And now, only the USA is loyal to Israel and is willing to go against all its other allies as it veto's anti-Israeli resolutions in the UN security council.

And because the USA is Israel's entire ballgame, and both Aipac and JStreet will still compete inside of the USA, will a too strident Aipac lobby, embolden the Israeli government
to finally go too far, and lose all American support?

But still, I think JStreet will make inroads into the American press.

 

[JS80]

By default taking Israel's position is right, and the arab living in Israel position is wrong.

 

[EagleKeeper]

By default taking Israel's position is right, and the arab living in Israel position is wrong.

The problem is that The Arabs put themselves into a bad PR position and continue to do so.

Trying to exterminate Israel when they had the upper hand showed the world their true nature.

Then the continue terrorism attacks on Israeli civilians afterwards by the Palestinians re-enforced that perception.

As much as Israel may overreact, they have been shown that the promises of the Palestinians when asking for peace are not valid.

Militant groups continue to provoke Israel for a reaction that they under estimate and then can use for PR.

 

[EagleKeeper]

JStreet may be like the young Korean leftists.

Not experiencing the pain makes thensee things through rose colored glasses.

The Koreans think that they can kiss and make up with NK. NK has not evil ambitions and is misunderstood.

The JStreet may feel the same about the Arabs. They have grown up after the Palestinian and Arab terrorism became suppressed by Israel reactions.

All they see is what the Pal supporters here see. Overreaction by the IDF against the "defenseless" Palestinians.

Yet those defenseless Palestinians have the ability to kill Israeli civilians without any concern about what the result might mean to the PAlestinian civilians.

Like inner city gangs, they have to make their bones, not matter what the collateral damage.

 

[khon]

Jstreet is right.

US should of course supports its ally Israel, but that support should not be unconditional.

Simply going along with whatever Israel decides to do is bad for both the US and Israel.

 

[sandorski]

Israel has put itself in that position. One day it might figure that out, but so far they haven't.

 

[ichy]

The US should be protecting our own national interest, not sacrificing what's best for our country in order to do what's best for Israel. AIPAC has shown itself to be more loyal to Israel than to the United States since they are willing to sacrifice America's best interests to help Israel.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Israel would use the wounded body of the USA for cover fire.

They don't really have much respect or regard for American lives either; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Israel would use the wounded body of the USA for cover fire.

They don't really have much respect or regard for American lives either; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

I was on a Navy Destroyer that was threatened by Israeli gunships during the UN sanctioned PLO evacuation in 1982. There's no doubt in my mind that they would attack the US if they though it would advance their cause/needs.

 

[Harabec]

There is not enough hate in this thead. Please add some more

 

[Freshgeardude]

Israel would use the wounded body of the USA for cover fire.

They don't really have much respect or regard for American lives either; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

your link

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5] Some survivors, in addition to some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#cite_note-6


In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the U.S. claim of $7,644,146 for material damage to the Liberty itself.[8]
Purportedly, on December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the two governments through an exchange of diplomatic notes. [

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty.[5] Some survivors, in addition to some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress."


In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the U.S. claim of $7,644,146 for material damage to the Liberty itself.[8]
Purportedly, on December 17, 1987, the issue was officially closed by the two governments through an exchange of diplomatic notes. [

Ask the personnel that were actually onboard the USS Liberty and you will get a very different story. The investigations above were nothing more than political posturing.

 

[Macamus Prime]

your link

Yes, my link;

"No request for info on U.S. ships operating off Sinai was made until after Liberty incident."

Israel fired before confirming who this ship belonged to. But, wait, there's more!!

“At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. … Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air…. Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. … The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.”[37]

And, what if they did give money to the families of the dead? Israel bombed and killed their own fucking "ally".

Money, big fucking deal.

Israel is a rabbid mad dog.

And again, Israel would get behind a wounded America for cover fire. They don't care about America. And, they never will.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Jstreet is not a US Jewish advocacy group. Over half of its funding comes from a single donor in Hong Kong. Most of the other half comes from George Soros.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/j-street-exposed?page=1

 

[Lemon law]

To show what blind faith and propaganda can do, lets look how it worked for another group
inside the US touting foreign countries in Europe during the 1920's and 30'.

They too felt like JS80, their friends could do no wrong.

http://rationalrevolution.net/war/american_supporters_of_the_europ.htm

Even in 1939, the Greman American bund could rally 20,000 supporters in a march inside NY while the pro German press inside of the USA kept touting Germany and fascism.

Of course it all evaporated without a trace on 12/8/1941. As we came face to face with the hazards of blind and unconditional trust.

 

[Lemon law]

Jstreet is not a US Jewish advocacy group. Over half of its funding comes from a single donor in Hong Kong. Most of the other half comes from George Soros.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/j-street-exposed?page=1

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To partially answer, its fits important to understand that AIPAC has a long history of attacking anything it does not approve of with the use of vicious lies and propaganda.

But if you want the JStreet version, its easy to find.

http://jstreet.org/about/j-street-myths-and-facts/

Asa for me, I finds nothing in Aipac to support and not all that much in JStreet, but its usually advisable to at least look at anything from the perspectives of all sides.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To partially answer, its fits important to understand that AIPAC has a long history of attacking anything it does not approve of with the use of vicious lies and propaganda.

But if you want the JStreet version, its easy to find.

http://jstreet.org/about/j-street-myths-and-facts/

Asa for me, I finds nothing in Aipac to support and not all that much in JStreet, but its usually advisable to at least look at anything from the perspectives of all sides.

The defenses they post on there are pretty weak. For example they say that Hong Kong donor is small portion of their overall funding, but don't post a number. They also keep saying all donors are listed in the annual report but when you click the link its dead.

Putting aside the spin, my point is that Jstreet doesn't represent the American Jewish community as a whole. It doesn't even represent non-pro Isreal American Jews, because as far as I can tell, they aren't the ones funding it.

 

[theeedude]

LOL, an apartheid state thinks it can tell Jews in America what to think and what groups to associate with. They can go screw themselves

 

[Lemon law]

The defenses they post on there are pretty weak. For example they say that Hong Kong donor is small portion of their overall funding, but don't post a number. They also keep saying all donors are listed in the annual report but when you click the link its dead.

Putting aside the spin, my point is that Jstreet doesn't represent the American Jewish community as a whole. It doesn't even represent non-pro Isreal American Jews, because as far as I can tell, they aren't the ones funding it.

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So using the Drizzles reasoning, I should support Aipac, its funders, so I can watch my US president and its congress sell out all the interests of the American people, just to enable crazed Israeli settler party members to continue their murdering and stealing ways.

And even better yet, since no state in world history ever got the approval of their neighbors with that kind of behavior, I can look forward to showering Israel with weapons and money just to enable their Israeli lack of humanity forever. And the crazier the State of Israel gets, the more money we must donate, its a family and nationalist Israeli tradition.

Israel already believes and lives the two Nazi traditions, guilt based on religious hereditary guilt birth and the concentration camp, this is no time for Israeli half hog, JS80 will surely be the second to throw new born Palestinian babies into gas ovens.

Gasp, JStreet has a different vision, throw them into gas ovens instead because they are clearly not true Israelis.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

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So using the Drizzles reasoning, I should support Aipac, its funders, so I can watch my US president and its congress sell out all the interests of the American people, just to enable crazed Israeli settler party members to continue their murdering and stealing ways.

And even better yet, since no state in world history ever got the approval of their neighbors with that kind of behavior, I can look forward to showering Israel with weapons and money just to enable their Israeli lack of humanity forever. And the crazier the State of Israel gets, the more money we must donate, its a family and nationalist Israeli tradition.

Israel already believes and lives the two Nazi traditions, guilt based on religious hereditary guilt birth and the concentration camp, this is no time for Israeli half hog, JS80 will surely be the second to throw new born Palestinian babies into gas ovens.

Gasp, JStreet has a different vision, throw them into gas ovens instead because they are clearly not true Israelis.

The continuous Jews=Nazis crap makes you sound like an idiot. Besides, I didn't even comment on the merits of their point. I simply said they're not a US Jewish advocacy group because it appears most of their funding comes from overseas, much of it from non Jews.

I'm founding the Lemon Law advocacy group. From now I will speak for you but don't worry I have your best interests at heart.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

LOL, an apartheid state thinks it can tell Jews in America what to think and what groups to associate with. They can go screw themselves

Yes, the only lobbying in the US comes from Jews...

Fucking retarded piece of trash...

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So using the Drizzles reasoning, I should support Aipac, its funders, so I can watch my US president and its congress sell out all the interests of the American people, just to enable crazed Israeli settler party members to continue their murdering and stealing ways.

And even better yet, since no state in world history ever got the approval of their neighbors with that kind of behavior, I can look forward to showering Israel with weapons and money just to enable their Israeli lack of humanity forever. And the crazier the State of Israel gets, the more money we must donate, its a family and nationalist Israeli tradition.

Israel already believes and lives the two Nazi traditions, guilt based on religious hereditary guilt birth and the concentration camp, this is no time for Israeli half hog, JS80 will surely be the second to throw new born Palestinian babies into gas ovens.

Gasp, JStreet has a different vision, throw them into gas ovens instead because they are clearly not true Israelis.

It's been a long time coming, but here you are.

Being what you earlier stated that you hate in others arguments, i agreed with you then but your desperation has grown since you found no one to agree with you that rocket attacks and suicide bombers should go unnoticed by Israel and now this is who you are, someone who claims that Jews are Nazis.

I don't think you even have it in you to be ashamed of such a statement anymore.

It's quite valid as a cause for a ban though, if you can't call blacks savages when they commit a horrific crime, then you shouldn't be allowed to call Jews Nazis for defending themselves.

 

[Zebo]

Israel nazis? That's just saddest argument ever LL. They have a Arabic community, the ones who could get along and didn't run off so Arab armies could roll over them. They treat Palestinians in their hospitals for free even terrorists if captured alive. They don't even have death penalty for terrorist prisoners. Fail. They're are doing it very wrong if they are nazis who wholesale slaughtered everyone based on race/ethnicity. I'd say the Islamic states around them are far closer to Nazism. One thing for sure if any country besides Israel was under constant siege with rocket lobbed at them and thier children blown up they'd be a lot more punitive than Israel. Perhaps you should investigate the oil lobby who stays Israels hand.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Yes, the only lobbying in the US comes from Jews...

Fucking retarded piece of trash...

http://www.aipac.org/NearEastReport/20101025/AIPAC_High_School_Summit.html

Musician Michael Newman, beauty pageant winner Christiana Lowe (Miss Utah) and retired NBA player Paul Grant each shared their AIPAC stories


all not jewish.

all I met at the AIPAC high school summit I attended last year.


shocker right?

 

[Lemon law]

So you Israeli fan clubbers deny the indisputable fact that the Israeli has endorsed the Nazi concept of running concentration camps and denying Palestinians equal rights on the basis of hereditary guilt.

I have no problem in saying both Arabs and Palestinians have not screwed up also, but still, long term, its up to Israel to admit their past sins too.

We cannot change a rotten past, we can only change the existing future. Israel is increasingly skating on ever thinner ice, as the international Israeli rep is going into the toilet at an ever faster rate, smell the coffee, the past year has been nothing but an Israeli disaster. As its lost its last two key mid-east allies in Egypt and Turkey, with 14 out of 15 UN security council members voting against Israel, and still Israeli is still stupid enough to refuse the universal international demand for a settlement freeze.

Its never been my position that this is a situation where it Arabs v Israelis where only one side can win.
Why can't we find that win win for all sides?