Two Tier Justice System Emerges?

[Texashiker]

Two Tier Justice System Emerges?

We have had a two tier justice system for a long time.

One set of rules for big business, banks and the government, and another set of rules for everyone else.

 

[peonyu]

Either way the end game for him is probably the death penalty. But yes he should have been read his rights, he did gain American citizenship on 9/11 afterall [how ironic right?].

The story for the surviving brother is interesting, he seemed to have his head on straight until recently, his older brother however was a raging Islamic nutjob, seems he influenced his younger brother enough to bring him into his train of thought.

 

[finglobes]

He is a US citizen and should have a trial by jury in a regular court.

.

People can lose their citizenship if the join foreign armies and serve as officers - or in armies hostile to US. Anybody blowing the legs off 5 yr olds for Allah should be considered in a foreign army. A civilian court is dangerous and expensive. All the Marxist lawyers from Columbia will turn this case into a circus for years to come. Its always telling that libs always favor criminals over victims, enemies over citizens. Ted Kennedy running to Soviet Union for help beating Reagan really summed them up.

"Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit"

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...eagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

 

[Wreckem]

People can lose their citizenship if the join foreign armies and serve as officers - or in armies hostile to US. Anybody blowing the legs off 5 yr olds for Allah should be considered in a foreign army. A civilian court is dangerous and expensive. All the Marxist lawyers from Columbia will turn this case into a circus for years to come. Its always telling that libs always favor criminals over victims, enemies over citizens. Ted Kennedy running to Soviet Union for help beating Reagan really summed them up.

"Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit"

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...eagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

Leave it to nut job conservatives to want to shred the constitution.

 

[Jmman]

The lack of Miranda rights and the issue about whether to try him in a military court really are two separate issues. Terrorists like the shoe bomber etc were all questioned prior to their rights being read, so this is not really something new. The public safety exemption has been around for awhile. And I see no chance that he will be tried in a military court......

 

[finglobes]

Leave it to nut job conservatives to want to shred the constitution.

leave it to kinkster libs to support guys shredding babies legs (like the New Black Panther buds of Obama's that want to kill "cracker babies")

 

[shira]

My understanding of the legal situation with Tsarnaev is as follows:

He's temporarily NOT being Mirandized so that he can be interrogated to collect potentially useful intelligence. However, any information collected during this non-Miranda period is barred from being used against him in any criminal proceedings.

Once the pre-Miranda interrogation period is over, he'll be Mirandized and then interviewed by a completely independent group not associated with the non-Miranda interviewers and having no knowledge of any information gathered during that period. Any criminal-justice legal actions against Tsarnaev would be based entirely on information collected before and after the non-Miranda period.

So as far as I can tell, Tsarnaev's due process rights will be protected, and he WILL eventually be charged under criminal law.

There's no perfect solution for the need to gather anti-terrorism intelligence and the need to protect the rights of defendants, but it seems to me that the process now in place is a pretty good compromise.

 

[Wreckem]

The lack of Miranda rights and the issue about whether to try him in a military court really are two separate issues. Terrorists like the shoe bomber etc were all questioned prior to their rights being read, so this is not really something new. The public safety exemption has been around for awhile. And I see no chance that he will be tried in a military court......

The lack of Miranda and the public safety exception is fine. People have a general tendency to over estimate Miranda Rights to begin with.

 

[Wreckem]

leave it to kinkster libs to support guys shredding babies legs (like the New Black Panther buds of Obama's that want to kill "cracker babies")

I support the rule of law and the US Constitution.

Its just so fucking comical. Certain conservatives and posters on this board bash Obama for his extrajudicial killing of an american citizen who was an active terrorist and living with a group of fellow terrorists in a foreign country. That extrajudicial killing is more legitimate(but still high suspect and probably unconstitutional) than what you are wanting the government to do in this case.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I guarantee if the bombers were White or Black Christians, or Japanese psychos, there would be no calls to declare them enemy combatants. Does the discrepancy mean that US Muslims are in effect second class citizens?

You guarantee what?? You have no clue at all.....

 

[Wreckem]

You guarantee what?? You have no clue at all.....

He actually has a point.

John Walker Lindh, a white guy, while originally detained as a enemy combatant was quickly put into the federal criminal court system. He'll be out in about 6 years.

He got a fairly light sentence because he struck a plea deal. A plea only happened because he had been tortured by the military while being held as an enemy combatant.

 

[Matt1970]

I support the rule of law and the US Constitution.

Its just so fucking comical. Certain conservatives and posters on this board bash Obama for his extrajudicial killing of an american citizen who was an active terrorist and living with a group of fellow terrorists in a foreign country. That extrajudicial killing is more legitimate(but still high suspect and probably unconstitutional) than what you are wanting the government to do in this case.

You think Obama being judge jury and executioner of an American Citizen is more legit than which criminal procedure this guy goes through?

 

[Wreckem]

There is more legal basis(although not much and a huge stretch) for what Obama did than there is to put this guy through a military tribunal. There is ZERO legal authority to put this guy through a military tribunal. There is ZERO legal authority to put a person like this captured on US soil into the military tribunal system. Period.

 

[GoPackGo]

Tim McVeigh, a SCUM of the earth was read his Miranda rights:

Q. How did you begin to speak to Mr. McVeigh?
A. I read him his Miranda warning.
Q. What are they?
A. That is a card that informs the individual of his right to
remain silent or to have counsel present before speaking to me.
Q. Did Mr. McVeigh agree to speak to you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did you go ahead and ask him some questions at that point?
A. Yes.

From

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/mcveigharrest.html

This guy, also SCUM, should be treated the same way.

 

[Texashiker]

Tim McVeigh, a SCUM of the earth was read his Miranda rights:

A lot has changed since the 1990s.

 

[GoPackGo]

A lot has changed since the 1990s.

I know...the increase of tyranny astounds.

 

[Wreckem]

Tim McVeigh, a SCUM of the earth was read his Miranda rights:

Q. How did you begin to speak to Mr. McVeigh?
A. I read him his Miranda warning.
Q. What are they?
A. That is a card that informs the individual of his right to
remain silent or to have counsel present before speaking to me.
Q. Did Mr. McVeigh agree to speak to you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Did you go ahead and ask him some questions at that point?
A. Yes.

From

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/mcveigharrest.html

This guy, also SCUM, should be treated the same way.

McVeigh was read his Miranda rights because he was originally only arrested because he was driving a car with no plates and the officer quoted above noticed he was concealing a firearm. His CCW permit was not recognized by OK and he was arrested for that. It wasn't until three days after his initial arrest that was he identified as one of the OKC bombers.

 

[FallenHero]

Yeah not sure why they want to push this route with him. I want him executed. AFTER he is given his fair trial and is found guilty by a jury of his peers or a judge. To suddenly declare a US citizen an enemy combatant/terrorist and transfer him to another kind of justice system where there are next to nothing in terms of checks and balances invites all sorts of abuses.

 

[Darwin333]

He should be tried under the legal framework that he would have been if he had shot one person in cold blood, our normal everyday judicial system. Multiply that by infinity if he is actually a US citizen. We should never be allowed to declare US citizens on US soil "enemy combatants", effectively striping them of their citizenship and removing their civil liberties regardless of how horrible their crime. As has been proven by basically the entire history of the US government powers are always expanded upon.

 

[Darwin333]

A lot has changed since the 1990s.

The question is not what has changed but should it have changed and should it be allowed to be continued.

 

[Darwin333]

My understanding of the legal situation with Tsarnaev is as follows:

He's temporarily NOT being Mirandized so that he can be interrogated to collect potentially useful intelligence. However, any information collected during this non-Miranda period is barred from being used against him in any criminal proceedings.

Once the pre-Miranda interrogation period is over, he'll be Mirandized and then interviewed by a completely independent group not associated with the non-Miranda interviewers and having no knowledge of any information gathered during that period. Any criminal-justice legal actions against Tsarnaev would be based entirely on information collected before and after the non-Miranda period.

So as far as I can tell, Tsarnaev's due process rights will be protected, and he WILL eventually be charged under criminal law.

There's no perfect solution for the need to gather anti-terrorism intelligence and the need to protect the rights of defendants, but it seems to me that the process now in place is a pretty good compromise.

I really don't understand the "pre-miranda" stuff. Why not just take the 30 seconds and read him his miranda rights so that all info can be used against him in court?

 

[Darwin333]

People can lose their citizenship if the join foreign armies and serve as officers - or in armies hostile to US. Anybody blowing the legs off 5 yr olds for Allah should be considered in a foreign army. A civilian court is dangerous and expensive. All the Marxist lawyers from Columbia will turn this case into a circus for years to come. Its always telling that libs always favor criminals over victims, enemies over citizens. Ted Kennedy running to Soviet Union for help beating Reagan really summed them up.

"Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit"

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...eagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

Its always telling that whichever side you are on is so ready to shred the constitution for bullshit reasons........

Or do you honestly believe that some "marxist commie bastard judge" is going to convince a jury to find this guy innocent?

 

[boomerang]

He is a US citizen; this is his home country. As for the rest of your post... you're weird.

Your meter needs recalibrating.



The definition of home country follows.

1. the country in which a person was born and usually raised, regardless of the present country of residence and citizenship

Quit splitting hairs in a knee jerk reaction. Republicans are doing nothing more than posturing on this issue. Obama and his minions have come up with some pretty harebrained ideas in the past in similar situations. They're letting Obama and Holder know that they're not going to put up with any antics this time around.

Anyone who thinks he's going to get tried in anything other than a civilian court enjoys getting themselves all agitated.

The degree to which people get themselves wound up over nothing absolutely amazes me.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Republicans are taking a stance ahead of any decision by Dear Leader and his ragtag group of Marxists, malcontents and cross-dressers. It's to be applauded. Take a firm stance now and the compromise might actually result in a conviction 10 years from now. Capitulate right out of the gate and we'd end up with him deported back to his home country with a monthly check from our government for life for his troubles.

What a maroon.

Your misbegotten headset threatens the right to due process for yourself & anybody else accused of any crime. Repub figures pander shamelessly to your RWA personality type.

You can't know that, however, given that all the blood has rushed from your brain to to engorge your raging Terrarist!(TM) hard-on.

 

[her209]

I guarantee if the bombers were White or Black Christians, or Japanese psychos, there would be no calls to declare them enemy combatants. Does the discrepancy mean that US Muslims are in effect second class citizens?

Why wasn't the guy who sent ricin in the mail to lawmakers declared an enemy combatant?