Two questions: Athlon II + DDR2 and thermal difference

[Bootleg Betty]

Hi,

I have two (actually more) questions for the more knowledgable people here.

First: I was thinking about very cheap upgrade from Athlon X2 4850e and ATI 3870 to Athlon II 640 and GTX 460 768. I need to know some things however:

Will I see any noticeable improvement? I don't need much performance from the CPU side, just some probably rather easy games (dragon age 2, witcher 2, mass effect 3, stuff like that). With current computer, I have to play them at 1440 or 1280 with no AA, which is pretty annoying on 1680 display. However, I think that Athlon II 640 and GTX 460 should suffice for such easy games in 1680, right?

The point is, that if I can reuse the DDR2 memory I have now, I can get just new motherboard, the CPU and the GPU (400 W should suffice, right?) for the price of one sandy bridge CPU which would be awesome as I plan to play just about these three games and don't touch that computer again in another year. However, I'm not sure whether I can use Athlon 640 with DDR2-800 memory. There's obviously motherboard that support DDR2 and this CPU, but I failed to find if that's enough for this CPU.

Also I would need a new motherboard and while they are cheap, the cheapest one has nvidia chipset (nforce 630a) and I seem to remember they were really bad, or were they? Should there be any problem with this? (also, I can apparently get core2duo E7500 + MB + GPU for the same price. that's a bad idea, right? at least worse than Athlon. I realize I must seem crazy cheap to you, but the thing is, with 360 usd upgrade and three games I want to play, I pay 120 usd for every game not counting the price of the game. that's a lot for a computer game, and now imagine 600 usd upgrade)

Second question: I recently tried to clean up and oil and stuff my macbook. I put new thermal paste on the heatsink and put it all together and now I noticed there's always about six or seven degrees difference between "CPU" and "CPU heatsink" as measured by iStat. Is that normal, or does it mean that I put the paste wrong?

Thanks for answers!

 

[Bester]

Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs are Socket AM3 which means DDR3.

When AM3 first came out there were chips for both AM2 and AM3 however they are no longer made. You could look on eBay perhaps.

If you are going to get new mobo, process and gnu then stretch another £35 for 4gb of DDR3 ram. It is ridiculously cheap these days. In fact DDR 2 is more expensive to buy as it is no longer made.

As for motherboards I would only recommend AMD chipsets for AMD processors. Nvidia haven't made any for a long time so they are behind the curve.

A 780g or 880g motherboard can be had for cheap. Combine it with your chosen athlon ii, 4gb ddr3 and a Radeon 4870 or 5770 and you would have a sizable upgrade over your existing setup. Hell take in in stages and get the gpu last, stretch out that 3870 as long as poss

Whatever you can get with you cash. Sorry only know GBP. for around £500 I could get a Phenom II X6, Radeon 5770, 8GB RAM and an 880G motherboard, plus case.. PSU and HDD etc..

 

[Davidh373]

Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs are Socket AM3 which means DDR3.

Not always

If you are going to get new mobo, process and gnu then stretch another £35 for 4gb of DDR3 ram. It is ridiculously cheap these days. In fact DDR 2 is more expensive to buy as it is no longer made.

Agreed :thumbsup:

As for motherboards I would only recommend AMD chipsets for AMD processors. Nvidia haven't made any for a long time so they are behind the curve.

True

A 780g or 880g motherboard can be had for cheap. Combine it with your chosen athlon ii, 4gb ddr3 and a Radeon 4870 or 5770 and you would have a sizable upgrade over your existing setup. Hell take in in stages and get the gpu last, stretch out that 3870 as long as poss

Why does the GPU need to be AMD? OP, if you prefer NVidia for your GPU, the 460 (recommend the 1GB version) will do WONDERS over your existing 3870. If you prefer AMD, the 6850 is around a 460 in performance and the prices are regularly identical. The 4870 is OOOOLD, so I wouldn't get that, especially since it's still around $120-$140.

OP, as for your choice, what will be most behind is the processor. You can get into an i5 760 or an Phenom II X6 for about $75 more and either could easily double performance of the Athlon II X4. As for the 2GB RAM you are planning on, spend the extra $15 or so for 4GB, it is well worth it. The 460 is still pulling pretty strong numbers in benchmarks, so over all that is a good choice, as would a better NVidia card, or alternative HD 6850 or higher.

 

[Bester]

I meant to say Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs are CURRENTLY AM3 lol they used to be AM2 but that was a long time ago and you would be hard pressed to find one.

I prefer Radeons to be partnered with my AMD chips, and price/performance is often better just like AMDvIntel of course if it was monetarily feasible to get a higher performing nvidia then I would chose an nvidia if it was a higher performer....

 

[Davidh373]

I meant to say Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs are CURRENTLY AM3 lol they used to be AM2 but that was a long time ago and you would be hard pressed to find one

No, what I was saying is you can find AM3 board that uses DDR2.

I prefer Radeons to be partnered with my AMD chips, and price/performance is often better just like AMDvIntel of course if it was monetarily feasible to get a higher performing nvidia then I would chose an nvidia if it was a higher performer....

huh... well both the 460 1GB and the 6850 perform the same, so either way he'll have a good card.

AMDvIntel

Intel is currently winning with the new i series, but I'll let that one slide since you're new . The only AMD chips I'd buy today is the 640 or 140, there is just such a huge leap ahead if you throw another $80-$100 in compared to the Phenom IIs. Bulldozer should bring them back into the game though, so that launch should be interesting.

 

[mfenn]

Athlon IIs and Phenom IIs are Socket AM3 which means DDR3.

Not true. An Athlon II or Phenom II will work just fine in an AM2 board, given that it supports their higher TDP. Here's the supported CPU list for a positively ancient AMD 740 board.

OP, I'll bet that you don't need to upgrade your motherboard at all. Post the model and I'm sure that somebody will look up the list of supported CPUs for you.

 

[WildW]

With current computer, I have to play them at 1440 or 1280 with no AA, which is pretty annoying on 1680 display. However, I think that Athlon II 640 and GTX 460 should suffice for such easy games in 1680, right?

If you have to turn down resolution and do without AA to play games smoothly then you are GPU limited. Look at upgrading your graphics card first - if after that you still want to upgrade your CPU you haven't lost anything. Your GTX460 plan sounds ideal.

That 4850e should overclock pretty easily too - my old 45W X2 went from 2.3 to 2.8 easily enough, and even when you do there's very little heat to worry about.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Ok, thanks everyone for answers so far!

I tried overclocking, but it didn't work. Unstable piece I guess. It wasn't overheating but the system was crashing left and right. I can't get new CPU with this MB, I checked (Gigabyte MA770-DS3, first revision according to picture) and my plan to reuse the DDR2-800 memory I have was foiled because even if new athlon can work with DDR2 with just the right MB, it needs faster one than 800.

So I can do:

1) GTX 460 768 + Athlon X4 645 + MB (cheapest 740G one, no nforce) + 4GB RAM for 420 usd (in local money).

2) GTX 460 768 + Core 2 Duo E7500 + MB (cheapest G31 one) + 4GB RAM for 415 usd (or maybe I could use my ddr2 800 memory with this? I'm confused about memory frequency lately)

3) GTX 460 768 + Core i3 540 (why is it cheaper than 530?) + MB (cheapest H55 one) + 4GB RAM for about 450 usd

4) screw CPU, get 460 and wait for sandy bridge i3, bulldozer, or something like that.

Does anything from this look like a spectacularly good or bad idea to anyone?

Also i5-760 costs the same as i5-2500(nonK) here and the only difference is cheaper MB for older generation so I don't think its a terribly good idea.

 

[Davidh373]

3) GTX 460 768 + Core i3 540 (why is it cheaper than 530?) + MB (cheapest H55 one) + 4GB RAM for about 450 usd

If you can do this you can certainly do an Athlon II X4 + 460 1GB. That is a better pairing... I wouldn't get a dual core desktop if it meant the end of me...

Also i5-760 costs the same as i5-2500(nonK) here and the only difference is cheaper MB for older generation so I don't think its a terribly good idea.

So the 75% of that would be better spent on an i3 and a 756MB version of the 460?

WHATEVER you do, you should not compromise for anything less than the 1GB version of the card. You should be looking at either the Athlon II X4 or jump up to the i5 2500k territory (or the i5 760 is by no means a bad alternative)

 

[fffblackmage]

+1 for the Athlon II X4, especially if you want to play Dragon Age 2. If it's anything like the first game, you definitely want a quad core and nothing less.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Ok, confusion ahead. Apparently I can pair Athlon X4 with DDR2-800 memory if I get the right (reasonably ancient and thus cheap) MB. So I can reuse my memory and have more money for a nice GPU. It will be slower but I don't think it will be noticeable (unlike better GPU).

Unless the Gigabyte site just lied to me.

What is the difference between 460 768 and 460 1GB? It looks like just few FPS in the Bench but I seem to remember something about 1680 with AA not fitting into 768 MB memory?

Also there's 6850. It should be definitely faster than 460 768, usually faster than 460 1G, take less power and price wise it's between 460 768 and 460 1G (here). Im I getting this right?

 

[airdata]

what do you have for RAM that you'll be reusing?

I'm rolling an athlon II 620 + 8gb ddr2-6400 w\ no issues.

 

[Davidh373]

Ok, confusion ahead. Apparently I can pair Athlon X4 with DDR2-800 memory if I get the right (reasonably ancient and thus probably cheap) MB. So I can reuse my memory and have more money for a nice GPU. It will be slower but I don't think it will be noticeable (unlike better GPU).

Correct

What is the difference between 460 768 and 460 1GB? It looks like just few FPS in the Bench but I seem to remember something about 1680 with AA not fitting into 768 MB memory?

The higher resolution the textures/ assets loading into the card are, the bigger the files are, thusly the more memory they enjoy eating up. So The more memory you have, the less likely you are to run into a GPU bottlenecking on it's memory. as of right now, we are even getting consumer cards in the 2GB range (69xx series), so IMO, 768 is going to be a joke a lot faster than 1GB.

Also there's 6850. It should be definitely faster than 460 768, usually faster than 460 1G, take less power and price wise it's between 460 768 and 460 1G (here). Im I getting this right?

The 6850 and 460 1GB trade punches. Usually the 6850 does better above you resolution (1080p) but If I recall at 1600 x 1200 they are pretty close (usually within' 5 fps of each other).

 

[mfenn]

The higher resolution the textures/ assets loading into the card are, the bigger the files are, thusly the more memory they enjoy eating up. So The more memory you have, the less likely you are to run into a GPU bottlenecking on it's memory. as of right now, we are even getting consumer cards in the 2GB range (69xx series), so IMO, 768 is going to be a joke a lot faster than 1GB.

Additionally, the GTX 460 768MB and GTX 460 1GB differ in more ways than just the amount of memory. Essentially, the 768MB card has an all-around gimped memory and rasterization subsystems. Go for the 1GB card.

Also, OP, when a motherboard says that it supports DDR2 1066, it means that it supports up to that speed. DDR2 800 will work just fine.

 

[pcsavvy]

OP--When looking at current AMD Athlon II's or Phenom II's, these cpu's are AM3. They are compatible with AM2+ and AM3 AMD m/b. There are some AM2+ boards that support DDR2 however they are getting far and few between.
The main thing to look at with AMD boards is check out which CPU's are supported and what features you want.
You can get some good combo deals online with a quad core and motherboard.
Memory prices are coming down, DDR3 is not as expensive as it once was.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Ok, so I could reuse the memory.

Only I just found I have 4 x 1 GB DDR2-800 and all the AM2+ boards I can found (and that don't more than AM3 MB + DDR3 combined) have only two slots. And 2 GB with Win7 and games are not good.

HEAD > DESK HEAD > DESK HEAD > DESK

Ok, I have calmed down now. But the world obviously hates me.

So, I'm getting
- Phenom X4 840 (which is Athlon X4 3.3 Ghz for some reason named phenom. costs 5 usd more here than athlon X4 640. that's a good thing, right?)
- MB
- 6850
- 2x 2 GB DDR3-1333

Anything obviously wrong? Will 400W PSU (fotron 80+ something) handle it? My guess is yes, but I shouldn't overclock it probably.

 

[Davidh373]

Simple fix, ddr3 with a $70 AM3 board.

 

[mfenn]

Ok, so I could reuse the memory.

Only I just found I have 4 x 1 GB DDR2-800 and all the AM2+ boards I can found (and that don't more than AM3 MB + DDR3 combined) have only two slots. And 2 GB with Win7 and games are not good.

HEAD > DESK HEAD > DESK HEAD > DESK

Ok, I have calmed down now. But the world obviously hates me.

So, I'm getting
- Phenom X4 840 (which is Athlon X4 3.3 Ghz for some reason named phenom. costs 5 usd more here than athlon X4 640. that's a good thing, right?)
- MB
- 6850
- 2x 2 GB DDR3-1333

Anything obviously wrong? Will 400W PSU (fotron 80+ something) handle it? My guess is yes, but I shouldn't overclock it probably.

The Phenom II X4 840 is a Phenom II X6 with two cores disabled, so its definitely a good deal if you can get it for only $5 more than a 640. (That or your 640 is really overpriced!)

You Motherboard and GPU look fine, just make sure that he 840 is supported, it is something of a rare bird.

The CPU has a 95W TDP and the 6850 has 127W TDP, so a 400W PSU should be fine. Fotron is pretty decent actually.