Two psychiatrists discussing how to discuss Trump's mental health

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
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It would be valid, if there was any indication that Trump was that insane.
Your hate isn't a diagnosis, it's simply that you hate Trump and choose to view him through that filter. I don't have any issue with that, but you should be honest with yourself about it.
It's also worth noting that he's on the down hill slope, he'll be gone in a year and a half and soon forgotten.

I don't know if Trump will be soon forgotten... he'll just lose relevance.

And I don't think you need to be blinded by hate to agree that Trump is, at least, very narcissistic.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,941
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If by ‘insane’ you mean ‘has one or more mental disorders’ then there is indeed a large amount of evidence that he is ‘insane’ and there are large numbers of mental health professionals who have said as much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dangerous_Case_of_Donald_Trump

Are the more than two dozen professionals here all also blinded by hate and unable to see that there’s no evidence?

Also, of the checklist for Narcissistic Personality Disorder how many do you think Trump fulfills?
I don't have much faith in, or respect for, any doctor that makes a diagnoses without seeing the patient and announcing the results publicly. That's not medicine, it's politics, and the doctors that did it should have their licence to practice revoked.
 
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Jan 25, 2011
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I’m just going to leave this here. It’s an article written by Dr. Allen Frances. He literally helped write the book “The Diagnostic Manual of Mental Illness”.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/06/donald-trump-mental-illness-diagnosis/

Confusing Trump’s behavior with mental illness unfairly stigmatizes those who are truly mentally ill, underestimates his considerable cunning, and misdirects our efforts at future harm reduction. And the three most frequent armchair diagnoses made for Trump — narcissistic personality disorder, delusional disorder, and dementia — are all badly misinformed

I’ll leave it to the professionals. I don’t know where his act ends and he begins. I certainly would hope a medical professional would refrain from diagnosing someone they never actually met as they don’t know that answer either.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I don't know if Trump will be soon forgotten... he'll just lose relevance.

And I don't think you need to be blinded by hate to agree that Trump is, at least, very narcissistic.

If you created a character to showcase NPD and made them act like Trump people would say you were being ham handed and unrealistic.

If Trump’s behavior does not classify him as someone with a high probability of having Narcissistic Personality Disorder I would challenge those saying that to name a single person throughout history who would qualify.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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I don't know if Trump will be soon forgotten... he'll just lose relevance.

And I don't think you need to be blinded by hate to agree that Trump is, at least, very narcissistic.
Of course he's a narcissist. That doesn't make him dangerous.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I don't have much faith in, or respect for, any doctor that makes a diagnoses without seeing the patient and announcing the results publicly. That's not medicine, it's politics, and the doctors that did it should have their licence to practice revoked.

So to be clear since Trump won’t submit to a psychiatric evaluation all mental health professionals should refuse to consider the large amount of public evidence that indicates he is mentally ill? By this standard that means it is literally impossible for any president to be classified as mentally ill regardless of the severity of their illness. If they were walking around in a bath robe saying they were Jesus you would want someone’s license to be revoked for saying he’s acting mentally ill. That sounds like a REALLY bad idea, to put it mildly, haha.

Regardless, you said there was not any evidence of Trump’s mental illness and then when confronted with the opinion of dozens of mental health professionals who disagreed instead of taking their expertise into account you refused to reconsider your opinion and then sought to have them punished for saying it.

I think you might want to take your own advice, you’re allowing your partisanship to overwhelm your critical thinking. Again, of the 9 elements of NPD is there a single one Trump does not exemplify? Even one?
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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I’m just going to leave this here. It’s an article written by Dr. Allen Frances. He literally helped write the book “The Diagnostic Manual of Mental Illness”.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/06/donald-trump-mental-illness-diagnosis/



I’ll leave it to the professionals. I don’t know where his act ends and he begins. I certainly would hope a medical professional would refrain from diagnosing someone they never actually met as they don’t know that answer either.

What the doctor is telling us is that successful narcissists aren't suffering from a personality disorder but rather enjoying it.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
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Incompetence certainly does make somebody dangerous, at the very least to themselves. Would you trust an incompetent person not to hurt themselves around electricity or roofing repairs?
 
Jan 25, 2011
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What the doctor is telling us is that successful narcissists aren't suffering from a personality disorder but rather enjoying it.
As the man who wrote the criteria being referenced in this thread I think his opinion on the matter should carry some weight.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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Incompetence certainly does make somebody dangerous, at the very least to themselves. Would you trust an incompetent person not to hurt themselves around electricity or roofing repairs?
not to mention a country's economic and foreign policies. Nuclear weapons anyone?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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LOL. Which ones do you think he does not meet?

1) Grandiose sense of self importance. I don't think he does, at least not more than a billionaire president would at any rate.

2) Fantasies of unlimited power, success. I don't believe this one applies. Or at least anyone that thinks it does is projecting.

3) Believes that he's special, should only associate with high status people. This isn't him at all, he courted miners and farmers, the common person, not coastal elitists. If anything, this one applies to liberals at a broad level.

4) Require excessive admiration. Another I don't think applies at all. He put himself up to run as president and against a very crowded GOP field. Better have thick skin and be able to take criticism to do that.

5) Has a sense of entitlement. Maybe somewhat, but not sure if that's uncommon in general with those born into money. But, he still puts int he hard work, the kind of hard work people like Hillary would never stoop to.

6) Interpersonally exploitative. I don't see how this one would apply at all.

7) Lacks empathy. I think he feels the pain of America and wants to help as he knows how.

8) Envious of others or believes others are envious of him. Not sure how we could know this one.

9) Maybe, but again only to the degree that might be normal for a billionaire in control of the free world that won an election vs. the predetermined Madam President, and did so while taking on the GOP, the Democrats, the media, and Hollywood all at once.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
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1) Grandiose sense of self importance. I don't think he does, at least not more than a billionaire president would at any rate.

2) Fantasies of unlimited power, success. I don't believe this one applies. Or at least anyone that thinks it does is projecting.

3) Believes that he's special, should only associate with high status people. This isn't him at all, he courted miners and farmers, the common person, not coastal elitists. If anything, this one applies to liberals at a broad level.

4) Require excessive admiration. Another I don't think applies at all. He put himself up to run as president and against a very crowded GOP field. Better have thick skin and be able to take criticism to do that.

5) Has a sense of entitlement. Maybe somewhat, but not sure if that's uncommon in general with those born into money. But, he still puts int he hard work, the kind of hard work people like Hillary would never stoop to.

6) Interpersonally exploitative. I don't see how this one would apply at all.

7) Lacks empathy. I think he feels the pain of America and wants to help as he knows how.

8) Envious of others or believes others are envious of him. Not sure how we could know this one.

9) Maybe, but again only to the degree that might be normal for a billionaire in control of the free world that won an election vs. the predetermined Madam President, and did so while taking on the GOP, the Democrats, the media, and Hollywood all at once.
And this is what the post truth era looks like. There is absolutely no point in having discussions. Opinions need not be based on fact, and facts no longer have any meaning. The sky isn't blue, the earth isn't round, democrats are the real racists.
 

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
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There's nothing more hilarious than watching a bunch of TDS suffering fucktards attempting to diagnose someone else's mental illness.

Physician, heal thyself.

LoL. Idiots.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,635
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1) Grandiose sense of self importance. I don't think he does, at least not more than a billionaire president would at any rate.

He puts his name on anything and everything. He said he was the only person who could fix the United States, etc. etc.

2) Fantasies of unlimited power, success. I don't believe this one applies. Or at least anyone that thinks it does is projecting.

Trump literally claims he is the most successful president in the history of the United States. Lol.

3) Believes that he's special, should only associate with high status people. This isn't him at all, he courted miners and farmers, the common person, not coastal elitists. If anything, this one applies to liberals at a broad level.

Courting their votes is not associating with them, something he does not do. When Trump socializes he does so exclusively with other wealthy or high status people.

After all, he says he associates with ‘the best people’.

4) Require excessive admiration. Another I don't think applies at all. He put himself up to run as president and against a very crowded GOP field. Better have thick skin and be able to take criticism to do that.

He has repeatedly televised cabinet meetings that consist of going around the table and having everyone tell him how great he is.

5) Has a sense of entitlement. Maybe somewhat, but not sure if that's uncommon in general with those born into money. But, he still puts int he hard work, the kind of hard work people like Hillary would never stoop to.

Great, so you admit this one.

6) Interpersonally exploitative. I don't see how this one would apply at all.

As one of many hundreds or thousands of examples he ran a scam university that defrauded people out of millions of dollars.

7) Lacks empathy. I think he feels the pain of America and wants to help as he knows how.

He had people bring a baby whose parents had been murdered back to the hospital so he could get a photo with it, smiling and giving a thumbs up.

8) Envious of others or believes others are envious of him. Not sure how we could know this one.

Because he has said as much many times.

9) Maybe, but again only to the degree that might be normal for a billionaire in control of the free world that won an election vs. the predetermined Madam President, and did so while taking on the GOP, the Democrats, the media, and Hollywood all at once.

Great, so you admit this one.

While I’m about 90% sure you don’t believe any of the bullshit you just wrote if by chance you do I feel for you as you have lost all touch with reality.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
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Of course he's a narcissist. That doesn't make him dangerous.

Textbook narcissism for the President of the US is pretty dangerous, I'd say. Think about it: that means the leader of the country is self-absorbed, exploitative, wildly exaggerative of his abilities and unable to empathize with others. You shouldn't have a political leader who treats his office solely as a tool for advancing himself.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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And this is what the post truth era looks like. There is absolutely no point in having discussions. Opinions need not be based on fact, and facts no longer have any meaning. The sky isn't blue, the earth isn't round, democrats are the real racists.

Truth isn't truth in Trumplandia. It's whatever Trump says it is at the moment. One of the more interesting things about narcissists like Trump is how they attract sycophants & corrupt everybody around them into lying for them, right down to the lowliest alt-right trolls on the internet. It's the only way to survive in the Trump admin, obviously.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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As the man who wrote the criteria being referenced in this thread I think his opinion on the matter should carry some weight.
I do too. Here is the weight I think he carries. Psychiatry is a weapon in the Russia where they deal with dissenting people by institutionalizing them as crazy. The psychiatric profession deserves better than that and strict lines in the West are drawn to prevent that kind of abuse. Anybody who believes that psychiatry can help the human condition does not want it to go down a dark path.

I think that explains the apolitical nature of this doctor, engaged as he is, especially, with defining mental illness.

Personally, I have always seen Trump as psychopathically cunning, not mentally ill in the normal sense, but rather as a person who is not empathically human, a monster of sorts who treats people who get in his way with distain and contempt. Basically, not exactlay crazy, but a piece of shit.

Now I believe that people like that should be destroyed mercilessly and without compromise because they are actually evil, and so I see it fair game to treat him as he does others. If calling him insane, regardless of the danger to the psychiatric profession can bring him down, I would choose the elephant gun over the pea shooter and pronounce him clinically insane. He is a danger to humanity and anything that gets him out of office is prudent. I have no desire to have him comitted as insane. We just need a tidal wave to sweep him away. The damage he has done to the country is unbelievable. Anybody who is rational can see it. Only in this country is there a cult of worshipers who are blind to how evil he is.

Psychiatry can defend itself elsewhere. The good of the country comes first, and 37 psychiatrist have agreed that figure in the news on this issue.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
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I’m just going to leave this here. It’s an article written by Dr. Allen Frances. He literally helped write the book “The Diagnostic Manual of Mental Illness”.

https://www.statnews.com/2017/09/06/donald-trump-mental-illness-diagnosis/



I’ll leave it to the professionals. I don’t know where his act ends and he begins. I certainly would hope a medical professional would refrain from diagnosing someone they never actually met as they don’t know that answer either.

It's stupid because of course he's "successful". He inherited $400 mil, and has been dodging accountability for felonious activity because of the two-tier justice system and some other factors.

Edit: I mean, do you really think Trump hasn't sexually assaulted a woman? Without doubt his narcissistic personality plays a role into it. Since that obviously lands you in prison, it's dysfunctional and therefore I don't see how that doesn't constitute a "personality disorder". That's not even getting into all the other bullshit he has gotten away with all his life.
 
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