Two Abortion Doctors charged with murder.

[MomentsofSanity]

Are you sure? i admit to not being up on the abortion laws but when I lived in ohio I was pretty sure you couldn't get a 3rd trimester abortion.

Forty one states have viability laws relating to abortions. So no, that's not the case.

 

[Wreckem]

What law did they break? the law was intended to punish people who kick pregnant women in the stomach. It was not intended to punish doctors who had a mishap in a legal medical procedure.

Ummm? It is not cart blanche on abortions in the US. The issue is now viability. If a fetus is viable, it can not be aborted in the vast majority of states unless it falls under medically necessary exception.

 

[Wreckem]

Forty one states have viability laws relating to abortions. So no, that's not the case.

Which means if a fetus is viable an abortion isn't legal.

Viability hasn't been defined by SCotUS. Some states have set it at 20 weeks. If the issue is ever tested, it will likely be in the 24 week range. Although at 17 weeks and a shit ton of money a fetus is technically viable.

Also, abortion at full term is illegal in most states. Even with most states banning late term abortions after 20-24 weeks/viability, the US is far more liberal about abortion than most of the rest of the modern world.

 

[Steeplerot]

Just wait until the back alley abortions start again, think this is bad?

When the right has their way it will be back again to little sally going missing and found in the grave while families hide the shame of why.

This is a sad legacy of ignorance for a terrible situation. No one wants abortions, but this is what happens in reality when people who are not rational step into a complicated subject with black and white thinking.

 

[micrometers]

The Romans drew the line at birth. I'd be satisfied with that rule.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Just wait until the back alley abortions start again, think this is bad?

When the right has their way it will be back again to little sally going missing and found in the grave while families hide the shame of why.

This is a sad legacy of ignorance for a terrible situation. No one wants abortions, but this is what happens in reality when people who are not rational step into a complicated subject with black and white thinking.

I know it is to much to ask for people to have self control. However, with as public as things are, if the people who can't control themselves enough to use protection and end up getting coat hanger abortions, and dieing, I think the problem will eventually solve itself.

 

[Steeplerot]

I know it is to much to ask for people to have self control.

It is a very rational thing to ask, but unfortunately unrealistic to the point of being dangerously idealistic to how humans function in the real world.

 

[SilthDraeth]

It is a very rational thing to ask, but unfortunately unrealistic to the point of being dangerously idealistic to how humans function in the real world.

True enough, I meant to much to expect.

 

[DCal430]

Forty one states have viability laws relating to abortions. So no, that's not the case.

All viability laws have exceptions, such as deppression. A woman who suffers from depression may have an abortion at any week.

 

[DCal430]

Which means if a fetus is viable an abortion isn't legal.

Viability hasn't been defined by SCotUS. Some states have set it at 20 weeks. If the issue is ever tested, it will likely be in the 24 week range. Although at 17 weeks and a shit ton of money a fetus is technically viable.

Also, abortion at full term is illegal in most states. Even with most states banning late term abortions after 20-24 weeks/viability, the US is far more liberal about abortion than most of the rest of the modern world.

There are execptions, such as depression.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

There are execptions, such as depression.

Your statement was that in most states abortions are legal up to 36 weeks for any reason. That is incorrect.

 

[DCal430]

Your statement was that in most states abortions are legal up to 36 weeks for any reason. That is incorrect.

Since it is easy to fake depression, any woman can get it done.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Since it is easy to fake depression, any woman can get it done.

Hey Doc, I am going into labor and the thought of pushing an 8lb baby out of my vagina, and then having to feed it after it violates me is depressing. Can you give me an epidural and stick a needle in the baby's head when it crowns? I don't want to spend the next 18 years being responsible for my actions of sleeping around without protection, and raising a kid without a father, it makes me look bad.

 

[cybrsage]

What?

He thinks the physical sciences only start to exist after someone is born. Before that, he thinks the self unique human DNA based replicating cells are both not human and not alive and anyone who claims they are simply are forcing their version of "metaphysics" onto him.

 

[cybrsage]

The Romans drew the line at birth. I'd be satisfied with that rule.

The Romans also forced people to worship their leader as a god, or be executed.

You still satisfied with them?


That said, birth is the current legal point where we decide to provide basic human rights to a human.

 

[heymrdj]

They are being charged with murder, which is appropriate. When a pregnant mom dies in a car accident, and the perp isn't charged with 2 counts of manslaughter, then we can not charge them with murder. I want to see it the same all the way acrossed the board. Either it means EVERYTHING or NOTHING. The baby is either a life in the womb (counts as a murder victim) or a lump of flesh inside the mother (counts as nothing until born, even if someone were to come in and shoot the mother right as she's in labor before birth occurs).

 

[micrometers]

They are being charged with murder, which is appropriate. When a pregnant mom dies in a car accident, and the perp isn't charged with 2 counts of manslaughter, then we can not charge them with murder. I want to see it the same all the way acrossed the board. Either it means EVERYTHING or NOTHING. The baby is either a life in the womb (counts as a murder victim) or a lump of flesh inside the mother (counts as nothing until born, even if someone were to come in and shoot the mother right as she's in labor before birth occurs).

You know, I'm certain that in a car accident, penalties become more severe if the victim loses a limb. Legally, a fetus could be treated similarly.

 

[WHAMPOM]

How sad that the woman could not get her procedure done in a hospital which could provide immediate life saving care. But then America is crazy.

 

[micrometers]

How sad that the woman could not get her procedure done in a hospital which could provide immediate life saving care. But then America is crazy.

yes, this also.

I view the furor over abortion mainly as people having too much time on their hands and preachers needing something to be relevant about.

 

[Elfear]

How sad that the woman could not get her procedure done in a hospital which could provide immediate life saving care. But then America is crazy.

How about increased awareness of adoption possibilities? There are lots of families out there who would make a good home for an unwanted child.

 

[JSt0rm]

How about increased awareness of adoption possibilities? There are lots of families out there who would make a good home for an unwanted child.

His point is valid though. these procedures should happen in a hospital.

 

[Lemon law]

I don't take sides here, but wish to point out some prosecutor has charged these doctors with murder. Being charged with a crime does not equal being convicted of a crime by a judge or jury. And all we have is the prosecutor's version of event's.

As for me, I will reserve judgment until more verifiable facts come out and the defense speaks also. It could change the entire picture.

 

[Darwin333]

neither. In both cases it is part of the mother.

Kind of like an arm or a leg (except with all of the functioning organs of the thing its "a part of")?

Why do you suppose they charge people with double murder if they kill a woman that is "pregnant enough"?

 

[blackangst1]

neither. In both cases it is part of the mother.

So I assume you believe Califonia got it wrong in the Lacey Peterson trial?

Count II: On or about and between December 23, 2002 and December 24, 2002, defendant did commit a felony, MURDER, violation of section 187 of the California Penal Code, in that the defendant did willfully, unlawfully, and feloniously and with malice aforethought murder Baby Conner Peterson, a fetus.

 

[classy]

I think late term abortions should be banned for many reasons.