two 3.0Ghz Xeons - one $179, the other is $969 (!?)

[ThePiston]

I know the Xeon e3110 is 3.0Ghz and is a 775 chip, but why is this other Xeon that is also running at 3.0hz, 771 costing ? The extra cache can't cost $800 more

Xeon e3110 3.0Ghx 6mb cache

Xeon e5450 3.0Ghz 12mb cache

 

[Markfw]

One is also dual-core and the other quad core.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
One is also dual-core and the other quad core.

details... details...

 

[ThePiston]

ok, bad example (crap, missed that)... but this one is dual core, runs at $2.66Ghz, and is $738
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819117089

 

[Lonyo]

One runs on a single processor motherboards (775), the other is for multi-processor systems (771).
They charge more for multi-processor CPUs.

 

[ThePiston]

ok, so as far as performance on a small business server, i'd be ok to get the e3110? I'm a desktop gaming builder - I'm new to servers. I just can't bring myself the build a "server" when all of the parts cost 2X as much or more for less performance. I know I'm probably wrong, but someoen try to talk me into building a server with one of the 771 mobos, ECC ram, SCSI, yada yada yada. It'd cost $5K for a simple server for a small 10-client medical office. I could build a desktop that does same thing for $700.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: ThePiston
ok, so as far as performance on a small business server, i'd be ok to get the e3110? I'm a desktop gaming builder - I'm new to servers. I just can't bring myself the build a "server" when all of the parts cost 2X as much or more for less performance. I know I'm probably wrong, but someoen try to talk me into building a server with one of the 771 mobos, ECC ram, SCSI, yada yada yada. It'd cost $5K for a simple server for a small 10-client medical office. I could build a desktop that does same thing for $700.

Go buy a Dell. Seriously. A PowerEdge 2950 (or the non rack equivalent since you likely don't have a rack) spec'd to meet your needs is what you want, if you are seriously contemplating supporting an office off of a $700 PC you are WAY out of your league.

Just as a quick example using the 2900 III, you can build a 2 GHz dual quad system w/8 GB RAM + embedded ESXi for around $3500. You'll want more (and better) drives to get proper performance out of everything but for $5K after drives that is a LOT of power and would serve most small offices for a long time.

Viper GTS

 

[aigomorla]

Kentsfield (consumer) -> Cloverdale (enterprise)
Wolfdale (consumer name) -> Woodcrest (Enterprise name)
Yorkfield (consumer name) -> Harpertown (Enterprise Name)

And soon to come:
Bloomfield (Consumer/Enterprise) -> Gainstown (Enterprise)


The main difference between the two and also the 1000000000000000000% reason why its more expensive.

LGA775 (consumer and some enterprise) vs LGA771(99% Enterprise 1% consumer *skulltrail*)


Thread.


Google LGA775 and LGA771 if you need more info. Fingers tired from typing all that out.

 

[ThePiston]

I've been running my office with a $350 XP Pro emachines as the "server" for 3+ years and it's been 100%. Before I had 2 employees and now I have 7 with 10 client PCs. Why is the server $3000 better? I'm not being a smartass - I really don't know.

 

[Markfw]

Socket 771 is designed for multi-socket motherboards, the ones that usually go in racks in a server room. The motherboards usually have no overclocking features, as you don;t do that with servers (highest reliability) and that is what you are paying for "highest reliability".

 

[solog]

Originally posted by: ThePiston
I've been running my office with a $350 XP Pro emachines as the "server" for 3+ years and it's been 100%.

Then just build another one with current parts. All I can think of to add is to maybe buy locally so it would be easier to exchange something if defective. Don't just use one hard drive. Dell has cheapo servers also that should work fine for you.

 

[Viper GTS]

Reliability is what you're paying for. And honestly what I listed was probably vast overkill for what you need, I was trying to demonstrate what you actually would get for $5K. That machine has redundant power supplies, ECC RAM, hot-swappable redundant storage, a hardware RAID controller with 256 MB cache, expandability WAY beyond 8 GB of RAM, 8 physical cores, an embedded hypervisor, etc. You could virtualize many duplicates of what you're doing now without breaking a sweat, and more importantly in the future... Need another server? It's a 5 minute configuration in ESXi & you've got another machine up & running. A year from now if 8 GB of RAM isn't enough for all the machines you're running you can throw in another 8 or 16 GB.

Also with Dell you have a single point of contact for everything. You don't have to deal with multiple vendors, multiple hardware manufacturers, RMA of parts should something fail, etc. Also when you leave the company the next person isn't stuck dealing with your conglomeration of parts.

If you let us know what you're trying to accomplish we can recommend hardware appropriate for the job.

Viper GTS

 

[Zstream]

I am at 1.210V at 3780 mhz, I have not even attempted to go more. They are some nice chips! (3110)

 

[ThePiston]

If you let us know what you're trying to accomplish we can recommend hardware appropriate for the job.

It's a medical records program that uses MS SQL as the DB manager. There is also a large folder for all of the scanned documents. We have 10 clients and 4 exam rooms. The exam rooms are used for exams obviously. The software also checks in and out patients as well as keeps inventory of our optical and contact lenses. Everyone in the office uses it all day. If the server were to die, we'd be SOL until I put the database and other files onto another client and pointed all of the clients to it... creating a new 'server'. I really don't know how many queries per minute or anything like that are made.

 

[Zstream]

The e3110 will be perfect, in fact it will be overkill.

I had a SQL DB with 35 reads/10 writes avg a minute on a athlon 3800+ and it worked fine. CPU usage was at 20% the majority of the time but other major factors such as ram, disc speeds etc.. are more important at this stage of the CPU game. Most all CPU's now a days can handle that including a celeron.

Linux red hat 9 OS.

 

[ThePiston]

Can I install MS SQL on Linux?

 

[Zstream]

Sorry thought you meant MySQL, MS SQL can be run on a linux box using VM.

I would not run VM, if you are set on Microsoft just make sure to have at min 4g of ram and you will be set.

 

[ThePiston]

yeah, didn't think so - not easily anyway. this company I use for some reason decided on MS SQL instead of MySQL which costs every one of their users an extra $500-$800 on MS Server.

 

[Spicedaddy]

Get a cheap Dell server, I wouldn't build it especially if it's for a medical office.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: ThePiston
ok, so as far as performance on a small business server, i'd be ok to get the e3110? I'm a desktop gaming builder - I'm new to servers. I just can't bring myself the build a "server" when all of the parts cost 2X as much or more for less performance. I know I'm probably wrong, but someoen try to talk me into building a server with one of the 771 mobos, ECC ram, SCSI, yada yada yada. It'd cost $5K for a simple server for a small 10-client medical office. I could build a desktop that does same thing for $700.

Go buy a Dell. Seriously. A PowerEdge 2950 (or the non rack equivalent since you likely don't have a rack) spec'd to meet your needs is what you want, if you are seriously contemplating supporting an office off of a $700 PC you are WAY out of your league.

Just as a quick example using the 2900 III, you can build a 2 GHz dual quad system w/8 GB RAM + embedded ESXi for around $3500. You'll want more (and better) drives to get proper performance out of everything but for $5K after drives that is a LOT of power and would serve most small offices for a long time.

Viper GTS

A 700 dollar PC could easily support a 10 user medical office environment. It's probably just a billing software like probity, and patient records and information.

However, running and serving up this data is only the beginning, and now here is where the costs come in.

If you plan on a Domain, you need a Windows Server OS which is not cheap. Anywhere from 499-799. Then you need licenses for each user to connect to the server, or for a specific amount of simultaneous server connections. (CALs).

So now that that's out of the way, here comes the most important part of setting up the network server. Data Backup and Disaster Recovery. You'll need a backup solution that is reliable. Offsite data storage in case of fire. I'm not talking about an external USB drive that stays hooked up permanently either. I'm talking tape drives like DDS4 (which might be the most affordable option) and that would probably start somewhere around 400 bux. Then you have the data tapes at 20.00 a pop, and don't forget the backup software from companies like Veritas, or other. Money, money, money. I hope you didn't undercut yourself in the price you gave your customer. You have to eat to.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
Get a cheap Dell server, I wouldn't build it especially if it's for a medical office.

A dell server is a great idea, but it's going to cost a lot more than 700 dollars with proper Server OS and Disaster Recover hardware (DAT tape/DLT tape & media) and software (Veritas or other backup software). In the end, even a entry level T105 Dell Server.

Specs:

Dell T105 Entry level server: Starts at 339.00
Dual Core AMD® Opteron? 1212; 2.0GHz,2X1MB Cache [Included in Price]
2GB, DDR2, 667MHz, 2x1GB,Dual Ranked DIMMs [add $10]
Windows Server® 2008, Standard Edition, Includes 5 CALs [add $799]
15-pack of Windows® Server 2008 User CALs (Standard or Enterprise) [Included in Price]
80GB 7.2K RPM SATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive [Included in Price]
250GB 7.2K RPM SATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive [add $50]
16X SATA DVD Drive [Included in Price]
1.44 Floppy Drive [add $29] (Always have a floppy in a server if you can)
Symantec Endpoint Protection 11.0 - 10 Users [$325]Product details (optional)
56K Internal Modem [add $69] (Are your clients going to dial in from home/other locations?)
PowerVault 100T, DAT72 Tape Backup, 36/72GB, w/Controller, Internal [add $859]
TAPE MEDIA,DAT72,1PK [$14]
Symantec Backup Exec v12 Server Suite [add $449]
Dell 750VA UPS 120 Volt, Stand Alone [add $299]
3 Year ProSupport for End Users and NBD On-site Service [add $299]

PowerEdge T105

Starting Price $4,391

Instant Savings $368


Subtotal $4,023



Lease from $107/mo. (48 pmts)*



Well lookee here. We went from an entry level server that could not properly service an office, at 349.00, to a 4023.00 server with OS and Server CALs, Antivirus, proper storage capacity, Tape backup, Tape backup software, Uninterruptable Power Supply, 3yr onsite warranty.

Yup. They getcha.

Now even if you could find and assemble all of this for half the cash, it'll still cost you a clean 2 grand. AND! YOU are the warranty. Your time is tied up if hardware goes south.
Your headache.

Are you nauseus yet?

I learned the hard way, setting up medical office networks when I was younger.
I hope my past mistakes can earn somebody else a leg up on a situation like this.
When I was first starting setting up medical office servers (Windows NT/Novell), I would say, "Sure! No problem. I can set you up. Here is the price."

After the job was over, to myself I'd say, "!@#$%^&*" and then count the money I didn't make.

 

[ThePiston]

ha - I'm the IT guy, handyman, and the doc.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ThePiston
ha - I'm the IT guy, handyman, and the doc.

Still gonna cost at least two grand for the hardware and software.

 

[ThePiston]

what burns me up is that the software uses MS SQL and not MySQL. That's the $2000 difference right there.

 

[superunknown98]

Where I work we have a file server and terminal server both running dual socket 940 Opterons, with SCSI backplanes and redundant power supplies etc. I also have a payroll server and two email servers with consumer grade motherboards and CPU's.

By far the consumer grade servers have been more reliable, easier to put together and repair then the two "server" grade servers. Anytime a power supply blows, it's a 5 minute swap for the consumer grade server. On the other hand i've had the backplane on the redundant power supply go, leaving me with no power. Well now I need some hard to find part that cost $250, Now I keep 2 spares. It could even be worse with Dell. Standard support doesnt include 24/7 part supply does it? Even if you pay extra for better support, you still have to wait for Dell's tech to bring you the part, that could be hours.

Granted I am on staff, and not an outside contractor. If I was recommending hardware to a customer, I would probably recomend a dell or similar, but If i'm going to be administering it localy it will always be a Regular ATX motherboard and CPU.