Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate by targeting anti-vaxxers.

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Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
There is no set definition of what is numerically "close," but an 11 point difference is pretty significant. It's more than small and less than large, I guess. It also represents an 11 point shift over a period of 5 years.

It's getting better because younger, more educated people are coming into the equation.

I hate to admit that given my advanced age of 48.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
It's getting better because younger, more educated people are coming into the equation.

I hate to admit that given my advanced age of 48.

LOL don't say 48 is an "advanced age." You probably just insulted half the board with that one.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
There is no set definition of what is numerically "close," but an 11 point difference is pretty significant. It's more than small and less than large, I guess. It also represents an 11 point shift over a period of 5 years.

An 11 point shift which leaves them with a difference of 5. That 5 point difference is quite small when over 70% of the whole group is seen. The largest growth was on the Right, but, the split is pretty damn close. Keep in mind that there are margins of error and that difference may be smaller or larger. I think a 5 point difference is quite reasonable to call close in this case.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Jesus you guys are old. I'm in my early 30s and I feel old already. Shit hurts for no reasons now when I get out of bed. There was a time that if I slept, the next morning everything was pretty much fine. Now somehow shit gets worse during sleep. I can only imagine what it will be like as I get into my 40s and 50s.
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
Jesus you guys are old. I'm in my early 30s and I feel old already. Shit hurts for no reasons now when I get out of bed. There was a time that if I slept, the next morning everything was pretty much fine. Now somehow shit gets worse during sleep. I can only imagine what it will be like as I get into my 40s and 50s.

Once I stopped doing manual labor I realized that I had to replace it with something else so I started working out. You really need to use your body or it will start to hurt everywhere.

I also had to buy a new bed.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Nope, that is not what I was doing. Not even close. That said, of all the things you would choose to talk about, this is one where its pretty evenly split as shown by the data from Amused.

Vaccination_poll.0.png


Are you saying these numbers are not close?
Forcing people to vaccinate their children is NOT the same as understanding the benefit of vaccines and choosing to vaccinate your own children. You don't have to be anti-vaccine to be anti-authoritarianism. So I might question those results a tiny bit, though I believe the anti-vax idiocy is pretty evenly spread on both side of the political spectrum.

Right now we have a problem that will hopefully be solved via education, but that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with forcing child vaccination by law. Maybe if the anti-vaccine movement grew to be a true epidemic I would change my mind, but there is no better way to solidify and grow the anti-vax movement than to force it.

I could see the anti-science, anti-vac crowd rallying around the first parent jailed and creating a martyr. Lots of idiots would take up the cause for whom it's currently a tertiary issue at best.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
It's getting better because younger, more educated people are coming into the equation.

I hate to admit that given my advanced age of 48.

Age may have something to do with it, but few pre-baby boomers I've met are anti-vax. I'm 50 and my mother would tell stories of classmates in grade school dying from Polio and other diseases when she was a kid. Friends would stop coming to school and then they'd find out they had died. Seeing the vaccines stop that first hand makes it hard to be a denier.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Once I stopped doing manual labor I realized that I had to replace it with something else so I started working out. You really need to use your body or it will start to hurt everywhere.

I also had to buy a new bed.

+1 on the importance of exercise. If you're over 40 and you don't do it you're just a fool. I didn't catch on until a year ago, and I'm 50. But man I feel so much better: physically, emotionally and cognitively.

BTW Trump doesn't exercise. He think it drains all your energy.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,336
136
Jesus you guys are old. I'm in my early 30s and I feel old already. Shit hurts for no reasons now when I get out of bed. There was a time that if I slept, the next morning everything was pretty much fine. Now somehow shit gets worse during sleep. I can only imagine what it will be like as I get into my 40s and 50s.
Fun story. I'm 47 and my dad is 85. I'm in good shape but had pulled a muscle recently, working in the yard of all things. We're talking and I say that I always knew that people slowed down when they get older, but how come you never told me that mechanism of action is pain?
So anyway.. enjoy.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,537
16,308
146
Forcing people to vaccinate their children is NOT the same as understanding the benefit of vaccines and choosing to vaccinate your own children. You don't have to be anti-vaccine to be anti-authoritarianism. So I might question those results a tiny bit, though I believe the anti-vax idiocy is pretty evenly spread on both side of the political spectrum.

Right now we have a problem that will hopefully be solved via education, but that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with forcing child vaccination by law. Maybe if the anti-vaccine movement grew to be a true epidemic I would change my mind, but there is no better way to solidify and grow the anti-vax movement than to force it.

I could see the anti-science, anti-vac crowd rallying around the first parent jailed and creating a martyr. Lots of idiots would take up the cause for whom it's currently a tertiary issue at best.

No one has been, or will be jailed for not vaccinating.

Mandatory vaccination is enforced by not allowing people to participate in any part of society unless vaccinated. Most notably, schools.

Which is why home schooling is big among anti-vaxxers.

Meanwhile, you can be as rebellious as you want. But vaccination is NOT a personal issue. Successful vaccination campaigns require herd immunity. Therefore it is hardly authoritarianism to require vaccinations to participate in a society.

Some people have to learn everything the hard way. Unfortunately, we can not allow them to take that course when it threatens the heath and violates the rights of others.

Their freedom to be fucking stupid ends at my right to live.
 
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Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
+1 on the importance of exercise. If you're over 40 and you don't do it you're just a fool. I didn't catch on until a year ago, and I'm 50. But man I feel so much better: physically, emotionally and cognitively.

BTW Trump doesn't exercise. He think it drains all your energy.

No shit, he can't even walk with the other nations leaders, he has to be carted around in a golf cart. OF COURSE he believes in all sorts of crazy stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if he drank distilled water too. ;)
 

Josephus312

Senior member
Aug 10, 2018
586
172
71
Forcing people to vaccinate their children is NOT the same as understanding the benefit of vaccines and choosing to vaccinate your own children. You don't have to be anti-vaccine to be anti-authoritarianism.

And if I want to drive drunk at 150mph through your neighbourhood I should have the opportunity to do so and if you disagree you are obviously an authoritarian out to take my rights away.

Here's the deal, not vaccinating doesn't just put YOUR offspring or yourself in danger, it puts others in danger too. Just like with the above example it's not just about your fucking rights, it's about others rights not to be in danger of catching what your kids spread.

The very young, some immunocompromised and the elderly can't be vaccinated, others can't be vaccinated because of allergies and by you choosing not to vaccinate your kid you are endangering them just like the drunk speeding driver is endangering people.


Your rights end when you endanger others lives, that's not authoritarianism, that is liberalism and it's what this nation is based on.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
And if I want to drive drunk at 150mph through your neighbourhood I should have the opportunity to do so and if you disagree you are obviously an authoritarian out to take my rights away.

Here's the deal, not vaccinating doesn't just put YOUR offspring or yourself in danger, it puts others in danger too. Just like with the above example it's not just about your fucking rights, it's about others rights not to be in danger of catching what your kids spread.

The very young, some immunocompromised and the elderly can't be vaccinated, others can't be vaccinated because of allergies and by you choosing not to vaccinate your kid you are endangering them just like the drunk speeding driver is endangering people.


Your rights end when you endanger others lives, that's not authoritarianism, that is liberalism and it's what this nation is based on.

I agree in theory, but who draws the line and where exactly? When do we line kids up for forced vaccinations vs. banning them from public school vs. banning them from any public spaces where they may come in contact with other kids? "For the greater good" is always a slippery slope and we must only pass zero tolerance laws as a very, very last resort. I'd much rather see this particular issues tackled with education and more parents brought into the fold willingly.

And I don't think forcing home schooling is much of an answer. I'm not in favor of anti-science parents being the single voice of instruction for their children. If we are going to break the cycle of ignorance, more home schooling isn't going to help.

All 50 states currently allow students without vaccines to attend public school on a medical exemption, so a willing doctor is all you need. 47 states allow you a religious exemption, and 17 allow you a philosophical exemption. It's not like we are really making it that hard for students to attend without vaccines. I know shit parents who singed the religious exemption because they were too lazy to take their kids to the doctor.

If I were emperor of the world for life, I would pass mandatory vaccine laws tomorrow. Followed by mandatory sex ed and birth control laws for anyone under about 25. Since I'm not, and I understand every government in the world is flawed, I tend to err on the side of as little government as possible unless absolutely necessary. Trouble is too many well meaning people think you can pass laws and force people to do the right thing, which often ends in less success than they were expecting. Again, education is the way to go on many issues. Willing cooperation trumps force every time.

And, I WASN'T ARGUING AGAINST VACCINES ANYWAY. I was pointing out that "do you believe vaccines should be required for all children" is a loaded question. It does not mean you are anti-vax or don't believe in the benefits of vaccines if you say "no."
 
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