[ TweakTown ]GeForce GTX 800 series GPUs to be cheaper, faster than 700 series

[3DVagabond]

This will be only with Volta.

AMD will likely have it first. They've been working directly with SK Hynix on HBM.

 

[SinOfLiberty]

AMD will likely have it first. They've been working directly with SK Hynix on HBM.

The leak you are referring to, if it is true, the 1gen HBM is far less effective than 2gen HBM, according to the chart o VZ.

 

[3DVagabond]

The leak you are referring to, if it is true, the 1gen HBM is far less effective than 2gen HBM, according to the chart o VZ.

No leak. AMD announced it.
http://electroiq.com/blog/2013/12/amd-and-hynix-announce-joint-development-of-hbm-memory-stacks/

 

[SinOfLiberty]

ok, but 300x series are unlikely to have them and if they do, it will be the 1st gen, which I talked about in my previous post.

 

[Qwertilot]

Rather more crucial for the APUs I'd have thought?

 

[3DVagabond]

Rather more crucial for the APUs I'd have thought?

Should be huge for APU's. The increased bandwidth and improved efficiency is still a plus for graphics cards too though.

 

[SlickR12345]

No way!!! You want to tell me that a new generation graphic card coming out in 2015 which is almost three years later after the last generation will be faster than the last generation graphic card?

I find this unbelievable and outright absurd! How dare a new GPU, almost 3 years later then the last GPU be actually faster?

I would have serious issues if the new 880 GPU was faster than 780, I seriously would. How dare them sell a faster card at prices lower than $1000? How dare them!

 

[sxr7171]

It actually makes sense why GTX880 could end up cheaper. If it is GM204, it is a real replacement for 680/770 GK104 even if it ends up faster than 780Ti by 20-30%. There have been plenty of instances when NV's next generation mid-range either tied or beat the previous generation flagship. As a mid-range Maxwell card, with 2x performance/watt, it could easily beat a 780Ti in a 200W power envelope and sub-400mm2 die size, and be priced at $499-579.

This strategy would leave room for NV to release GM210 in 2H of 2015 for $699+.

It is a welcome rumor if NV won't continue to raise prices as it will put additional pressure on AMD as well. In the past, new generation of NV GPUs got 35-70% faster at more or less the $499-$649 level. Let's hope NV stays in this band, and closer to $499 would be even nicer for the 880.

Yep, this way we'll have to the buy the 880 when it comes out much like I did the 680 and then the 980 much like I did the 780.

 

[skipsneeky2]

I would buy the GTX880 if performance was 780 ti or better and priced at $500-$550. GTX870 would be better if it could at best touch 780ti and run $400.

Market right now is incredibly stale, upgrading from my 2gb 770 to anything else currently isn't worth it and the 2gb on my 770 makes sli not quite a viable option.Waiting for Maxwell sadly is my only option as well for others too.

 

[Saylick]

I guess this signals the end of an era where the high-end could be had for $500 and mid-range was sub-$300...

 

[moonbogg]

I guess this signals the end of an era where the high-end could be had for $500 and mid-range was sub-$300...

I think those days are gone. If they want $500 for 780ti level performance, then I get to wait for Pascal or whatever it is. I refuse to play the rip off game. I can wait for a good priced upgrade with good performance, even if it takes another 2 years. I suspect AMD will continue to lead as far as actual products that make sense, like R9 290.

 

[TeknoBug]

If the GTX880 will indeed have 4GB 512bit memory and have a pricetag of under $600 where the GTX780 is now, I'll probably buy one.

 

[blastingcap]

8800 GTX launch price = $600 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/17) in 2006

It's 8 years later.

Adjusted for inflation, $600 in 2006 = $705.57 in 2014 (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=600&year1=2006&year2=2014)

Food for thought. We've been spoiled by other components falling in price faster than GPUs, and in many cases more horsepower/efficiency/etc. as well. GPU prices have not fallen as much; instead, high-end video card prices have been steady, while delivering more horsepower... similar to car prices holding steady while cramming in more and more features and specs.

 

[Saylick]

8800 GTX launch price = $600 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/17) in 2006

It's 8 years later.

Adjusted for inflation, $600 in 2006 = $705.57 in 2014 (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=600&year1=2006&year2=2014)

Food for thought. We've been spoiled by other components falling in price faster than GPUs, and in many cases more horsepower/efficiency/etc. as well. GPU prices have not fallen as much; instead, high-end video card prices have been steady, while delivering more horsepower... similar to car prices holding steady while cramming in more and more features and specs.

The only issue I have with using the 8800 GTX as a poster child for the notion that GPU prices being steady over the years is that the 8800 GTX was a BEAST of a graphics card. Comparing the jump it brought to the industry to what the alleged 880 GTX will bring, the 8800 GTX was well worth the price. The 8800 GTX nearly doubled (and it did in some cases) the performance over the previous high-end. With the 880 GTX only offering 25-35% more performance at $500 and the 980 GTX offering an additional 30% on top of that for >$650, it starts getting obvious that the rate at which graphics cards improve is slowing down while we are paying the same amount because we, the enthusiasts, have an insatiable need for the newest, fastest, and greatest. We are no longer paying full price for large, significant improvements; we are paying full price for small, incremental ones now.

In other words, I welcome you all to the new high-end: $700.

 

[Mand]

The only issue I have with using the 8800 GTX as a poster child for the notion that GPU prices being steady over the years is that the 8800 GTX was a BEAST of a graphics card. Comparing the jump it brought to the industry to what the alleged 880 GTX will bring, the 8800 GTX was well worth the price.

Considering that everything that people are saying the 880 will and won't bring is coming completely out of one's own backside, I'm not sure it's valid to tout the 8800 as this massive overperformer as compared to the 880.

We don't know what the 880 will be. We don't. Anyone who claims otherwise is completely guessing.

 

[f1sherman]

The only issue I have with using the 8800 GTX as a poster child for the notion that GPU prices being steady over the years is that the 8800 GTX was a BEAST of a graphics card. Comparing the jump it brought to the industry to what the alleged 880 GTX will bring, the 8800 GTX was well worth the price. The 8800 GTX nearly doubled (and it did in some cases) the performance over the previous high-end.

That was not that hard with more than double die size compared to G71 (7900GTX)

GK110 has brought even more than 2x over GF110 with just a die shrink.

GK110 is a real beast

 

[3DVagabond]

I would buy the GTX880 if performance was 780 ti or better and priced at $500-$550. GTX870 would be better if it could at best touch 780ti and run $400.

Market right now is incredibly stale, upgrading from my 2gb 770 to anything else currently isn't worth it and the 2gb on my 770 makes sli not quite a viable option.Waiting for Maxwell sadly is my only option as well for others too.

If the GTX880 will indeed have 4GB 512bit memory and have a pricetag of under $600 where the GTX780 is now, I'll probably buy one.

So you guys are saying if nVidia offers basically what AMD offers now, you will buy it?

8800 GTX launch price = $600 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/17) in 2006

It's 8 years later.

Adjusted for inflation, $600 in 2006 = $705.57 in 2014 (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=600&year1=2006&year2=2014)

Food for thought. We've been spoiled by other components falling in price faster than GPUs, and in many cases more horsepower/efficiency/etc. as well. GPU prices have not fallen as much; instead, high-end video card prices have been steady, while delivering more horsepower... similar to car prices holding steady while cramming in more and more features and specs.

Tech prices fall as the product matures. It costs millions to make the first chip, after a while when you've made enough of them, they're a "dime a dozen".

If this card is GM206 as has been claimed, remember it's a ~$200 card.

It really doesn't take long to get the message across to the manufacturers either. They allocate chips well in advance. They NEED to sell them. If a card like the 880 (or 390) sits on the shelves for a few weeks prices will drop. Judging how people lapped up $1000 cards, that won't happen though.

 

[Saylick]

That was not that hard with more than double die size compared to G71 (7900GTX)

GK110 has brought even more than 2x over GF110 with just a die shrink.

GK110 is a real beast

I don't doubt this one bit. G80 was launched in the generation which followed G71, but GK110 was launched 2 "generations" after GF110. Heck, you might even call it 3 "generations" if you count all the way back to GF100. The issue is that prior to GK110, we were given a $500 GK104 to whet our appetite then GK110 was launched at the $650+ price tag. Normally, we would see the new high-end fully supersede the old high-end ala $550 GK110 replacing the $500 GK104, but nope, that didn't happen.

I'm sure we all know this by now but at the current rate at which node shrinks are being brought to the GPU industry, I think this pretty much means that there's going to be some sort of pseudo tick-tock cadence from here on out as I don't expect the first 20-nm GPU to be a big die.

 

[Larnz]

I think G-Sync will split the camps well and truly. It is worth it to NV to make as little margin as they can and price their new cards low to get buy in as when they hit the G-sync monitors will be out, anyone who goes G-sync will be locked into NV for quite some time I would think.

 

[RussianSensation]

Considering that everything that people are saying the 880 will and won't bring is coming completely out of one's own backside, I'm not sure it's valid to tout the 8800 as this massive overperformer as compared to the 880.

We don't know what the 880 will be. We don't. Anyone who claims otherwise is completely guessing.

There is nothing to guess. 8800GTX is 3x faster than 7900GTX in DX9 and beyond and nearly 2X faster than X1950XTX:

http://www.computerbase.de/2011-10/bericht-grafikkarten-evolution/3/

The chance of 880 (GM204/206?) beating 780Ti and R9 290X by similar amounts on average is 0%.

Another way to look at it is GTX280 vs. X1950XTX. 280 is 3x faster than X1950XTX over 2 generations. GTX880 would need to be 3x faster than HD7970. Frankly I do not think even GM210 (980?) will be 3x faster than 7970/680.

 

[tviceman]

GTX880 would need to be 3x faster than HD7970. Frankly I do not think even GM210 (980?) will be 3x faster than 7970/680.

You know what might happen? Nvidia might be fully bifrucating their product line. If these 512-bit GM104/204 rumors are true, I think nvidia might be beefing up their mid-die chip to be the graphics/quadro flagship, and stripping out rendering functionality on their big die to save on die space and use it strictly for HPC.

I otherwise don't see nvidia making GM104/204 with a 512-bit bus, nor do I see GM110/210 being manufacturable on 28nm due to sheer size.

Regardless, you are right. GTX 880 won't be a massive leap.

 

[n0x1ous]

While I realize based on price and naming, it makes some sense to compare 880 to 780, from a technical standpoint 880 should be compared to 680 for generational leap. We need to keep the slower node changes in perspective and when talking generational leaps in performance, compare chips from the same tier not from the same name range. All this talk about 880 vs 780. Of course its not going to be a massive leap. GM204 will probably be 65% the size of GK110.

I've always been a buyer of NV big dies (with the exception of this gen, but won't make that mistake again) so for anyone else in a similar boat, just skip the even number x80 parts and wait for eventual big die GM210/GTX 980

 

[96Firebird]

How about we compare performance/$? This is where Nvidia needs some work, and if they bring out a card that performs better than the 780Ti at a cheaper price, I don't see much to complain about...

I don't care if the chip is labeled as GM853, and is the size of a pebble. If the performance is there, and the price is right, bravo.

 

[sao123]

I don't doubt this one bit. G80 was launched in the generation which followed G71, but GK110 was launched 2 "generations" after GF110. Heck, you might even call it 3 "generations" if you count all the way back to GF100. The issue is that prior to GK110, we were given a $500 GK104 to whet our appetite then GK110 was launched at the $650+ price tag. Normally, we would see the new high-end fully supersede the old high-end ala $550 GK110 replacing the $500 GK104, but nope, that didn't happen.

I'm sure we all know this by now but at the current rate at which node shrinks are being brought to the GPU industry, I think this pretty much means that there's going to be some sort of pseudo tick-tock cadence from here on out as I don't expect the first 20-nm GPU to be a big die.

As I said in the other GTX 880 thread... the tick-toc would be far more tolerable if they launched the GXX10 variant in the 1st generation. This is the chip most people want to buy, and by the time it is released in Gen 2... it is outdated and a new architecture is right around the corner!!

 

[RussianSensation]

How about we compare performance/$? This is where Nvidia needs some work, and if they bring out a card that performs better than the 780Ti at a cheaper price, I don't see much to complain about...

I don't care if the chip is labeled as GM853, and is the size of a pebble. If the performance is there, and the price is right, bravo.

Agreed but do you honestly expect GTX880 to be less than $499? Even if it's $499, the thought that a 40-50% faster GM210 will drop in 12-15 months for $650 doesn't sound enticing. The launch window - Oct/Nov 2014 - isn't even when Witcher 3 comes out. It's a great launch window from consumer electronics sales over the holidays but in terms of PC hardware, not so much. Users itching to get X99 tend to be power users who already have 780/780Ti/R9 290X. For them a hypothetically 30% faster 880 is not a good enough upgrade over 780Ti.

A lot of people will also be looking to jump from 1st and 2nd generation i5/i7s to Skylake in 2H of 2015 and by then we might not be far off from 20nm AMD/NV GPUs. Of course I have been a bad predictor of market trends and I would certainly welcome a $500 880 that beats a 780Ti by 20-30% but in terms of generational leaps, for 780/780TI OC users, that's not amazing.