TV for gaming. Want lowish input lag

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Is input lag for the latest HDTVs really a concern? I read somewhere else that Plasma has a higher lag than most of the LCD panels out there. Is it noticeable? I need a new TV, actually two. Going to replace my main 65" Pioneer Kuro as it has some issues with washing out the images and it's too expensive to fix. I like the quality of a Plasma, but I started looking into it and can't decide if I want LED or Plasma (I know LED is LCD with LED lighting). I also want a 50" for another room. I also want lowish lag. Again Plasma or LED?

If anyone has any brand or model recommendations for 65" and 50" TVs for gaming I'd appreciate it. I do really like the looks of the slim LED sets out there. In person they are visually pleasing hanging on the wall.

Also is this 240hz motion field stuff any real benefit over the standard 120hz sets? They don't appear to be true 240hz.

Thanks in advance!
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Is input lag for the latest HDTVs really a concern? I read somewhere else that Plasma has a higher lag than most of the LCD panels out there. Is it noticeable? I need a new TV, actually two. Going to replace my main 65" Pioneer Kuro as it has some issues with washing out the images and it's too expensive to fix. I like the quality of a Plasma, but I started looking into it and can't decide if I want LED or Plasma (I know LED is LCD with LED lighting). I also want a 50" for another room. I also want lowish lag. Again Plasma or LED?

If anyone has any brand or model recommendations for 65" and 50" TVs for gaming I'd appreciate it. I do really like the looks of the slim LED sets out there. In person they are visually pleasing hanging on the wall.

Also is this 240hz motion field stuff any real benefit over the standard 120hz sets? They don't appear to be true 240hz.

Thanks in advance!

Display panel technology has nothing to do with it.

And refresh rate is personal preference. It doesn't really imply any pixel response times, and especially doesn't have any impact on input lag.

Input lag basically varies from model to model, year to year, and is more or less determined by the processing hardware inside the display.

For current model Panasonic plasmas, it's rather interesting. The cheapest and all of the high-end models have minimal input lag, of levels pretty much considered "good" or better. The S60 series (cheapest) and VT60 and ZT60 series have performed very well. The ST60 will really depend on your own eyes and what you play, among other considerations. I don't notice input lag, but I think I got used to console gaming with high(er) lag on my previous LCD. That's the only reason I can guess, considering the measured input lag is like 3 or 4 times what my PC monitors have. If my previous TV had high input lag, that would explain why I haven't noticed input lag on a TV that has had the gaming community in a tizzy thanks to reviews noticing high numbers in the input lag category (between 60-80ms iirc).
Note, I also rarely ever engage "Game Mode" - which doesn't make things perfect but reduces the lag some.

You're best bet, is really just eyeing some displays that impress you, and then googling "[model number] input lag".

There's so sure-fire way to determine which "type" of TV is going to be better or worse, be it by brand or display technology, 3D or 2D, smart or not, 120hz or not.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I figured. I've found the Sony models in 47-55" to be very minimal on lag. cnet rates them around 16.9ms which is quite good. I'm going to keep an eye out cause the sets that score well, are expensive. The KDL55W900A is their highest end 55" that isn't in the 4k XBR lineup. Retails for $3300 but is on sale for $2000 currently. That's quite a bit more than what is available from Samsung, LG, Panasonic and others.
 

alangrift

Senior member
May 21, 2013
434
0
0
I have an led tv and the input lag sucks it's a 55 inch screens. The movemt is not smooth. I had a plasma before hand and it was great but it exploded from water damage so definetly go with plasma.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
I have an led tv and the input lag sucks it's a 55 inch screens. The movemt is not smooth. I had a plasma before hand and it was great but it exploded from water damage so definetly go with plasma.

Lag has nothing to do with the display panel technology, everything to do with all variables combined. Some plasma panels are crap, some panels (all types) are great but the rest of the TV has crappy processors/hardware/firmware.

I repeat, do NOT think a plasma will be better at input lag than LCD because it's Plasma as opposed to LCD. Also, do remember all LED TVs are LED-Backlit LCD TVs. Some people forget this when seeing the phrases LED and LCD. The marketing caught on early and took over. (Unless it's OLED - 100% different tech)

I think the two or three fastest 2013-model-year TVs are LCD panels. A Panasonic plasma is right up there near the best - Panasonic also has a Plasma that's near the bottom of the decent-money bracket regarding input delay times (there are much worse, but when you pay $400, you expect it to be less than something that costs $1000 -then again, a $600 Panny plasma is faster than a $1000 Panny plasma, for 50" model prices).
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Also, keep in mind that putting said thing on your a receiver with it's own processing as well as plugging it through the passthru on the Xbone will introduce additional lag.

I believe most newer receivers also have a "processing off(game mode of sorts)"

Every meter (iirc) of cable adds about 3ms of lag.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I ended up with a Sony kdl55w900a. It was rated between 16.9ms and 19ms of input lag in game mode with no additional image processing enabled depending on who did the test. I run everything through a Sony dn1040 receiver and I add no processing or DSP effects at all. The lag is noticeably lower in game mode than cinema for example. It is less than the pioneer I was using for gaming and I am very happy with the setup for my game room.
 

Skott

Diamond Member
Oct 4, 2005
5,730
1
76
It will depend on the model. Some have a problem and some don't. The LG 5300 series, for example, are good for tv pc gaming but the LG5400 and 5700 series are not as good. I have the LG 39LN5300 and its good at pc gaming. Reading text though isnt so great.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Also, keep in mind that putting said thing on your a receiver with it's own processing as well as plugging it through the passthru on the Xbone will introduce additional lag.

I believe most newer receivers also have a "processing off(game mode of sorts)"

Every meter (iirc) of cable adds about 3ms of lag.

No, no that much lag for cabling. It'd be a fraction of that - cabling is essentially instantaneous. 3ms is substantial. I'm fairly certain a signal can traverse 100meters of cable in 1ms or less. What slows down a signal is computation and circuits.

I'm curious what kind of delay is introduced with the Xbox One. It might be similar to what any GoogleTV would introduce, but also depends on how much processing the devices want to do with the inbound signal.
At any rate, delay on the pass-through port likely means nothing. You won't be putting another game machine behind that pass-through, that's for cable/TV signal. And quite frankly, there aren't many applications outside of gaming that requires low input lag. Maybe A/V creative work, but I doubt that happens on a TV. The Xbox One's input lag on the TV would be unchanged whether or not something is connected to the pass-through.

And yep - some receivers will be good at handling some processing but not effecting the video input delay.
On lesser receivers, depending on TV, the audio and video can actually get out of sync. Good receivers usually have an ability to correct for this.

Mainly though, the receiver's processing has no impact on input lag. What you mostly want to avoid, if at all possible, is the receiver doing any VIDEO processing. You don't want any OSD features, no scaling, nothing.

I do need to figure out if I can disable the OSD on my Marantz, but my TV already has a high-enough input delay value, I'm not sure it even matters.

I'll find out for sure whenever these in-home game streaming technologies open up and I can use them. Valve's is basically going to be it, unless Nvidia opens there's up beyond their Tablet device.
I have an HTPC that really isn't that gaming capable (it has a 7750 in it, mostly in case I want GPU processing for transcoding - which, as I discovered, transcoding isn't even possible for copy-protected (DRM) cable DVR content. ugh) - but in another room, I have my gaming desktop.
I so want to see a game processed on my gaming rig, the content sent to the living room, and the controls are input through the HTPC in that living room. I have wireless X360 controllers connected to the HTPC, so any controller-ready game, I want to play on my plasma from my couch, with impressive visuals. :D

I'm waiting to be thoroughly disappointed with input lag on that front. Console games are already designed to tolerate high-lag, both due to implementation of wireless controllers and because it's understood that some people are going to be stuck on high-lag TVs. Plus the games run at low framerate, most often, so input lag sort of matches the frame-processing lag.
I've heard even on console fighting games, if they are at 60fps, high-lag TVs will make themselves readily apparent, more so than in any other genre of gaming. High framerate (60fps) 2D side-scrollers seem to get noted frequently as well.