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Turn off the lights, the parties over in the Afghanistan region

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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More revisionist history from EK IMHO. The UN basically gave Uncle Sammy a blank check in Afghanistan. GWB&co may have done a good snow job in selling the Iraq war to the American and British people, but the Iraqi military occupation never received a UN stamp of approval.
The US does not need permission from the UN to do anything. Our Constitution does not contain the requirement to get a bunch of other nations saying we can do something before we do it. Our leaders rightfully ignore all those who say we need permission from the UN to do things.

That said, United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 said Iraq would face "serious consequences" if they continued to not comply. The continued to not comply and they faced war. I doubt you will find a single person who does not agree that war is a serious consequence for an action.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I have to point out that a task with a beginning and an ending is not a Sisyphean task.
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A rather interesting contention, as you seem to be a poster child in not understanding anything about the beginning, the middle or any ending of what amounts to a Sisyphean task made up from only your flawed assumptions.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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A rather interesting contention, as you seem to be a poster child in not understanding anything about the beginning, the middle or any ending of what amounts to a Sisyphean task made up from only your flawed assumptions.
Wow. Lemon Law is lecturing someone on "understanding anything" and "flawed assumptions." And "poster child?" That's a F'ing riot.

Perhaps you want to reread some of your responses in this thread, particularly the most recent comically ignorant one you made to me; the one you have completely avoided responding to thus far.

I'm still waiting for your restraction and apology. Are you man enough?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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A rather interesting contention, as you seem to be a poster child in not understanding anything about the beginning, the middle or any ending of what amounts to a Sisyphean task made up from only your flawed assumptions.
When you googled Sisyphean, did you actually read what it meant? I will help:

In Greek mythology Sisyphus (
/sɪsɪˈfʌs/;[1] Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísyphos) was a king punished by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this throughout eternity. He is also found in Roman mythology.
The word "sisyphean" means "endless and unavailing, as labor or a task"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

The war in Afghanistan certainly had a beginning and will certainly have an end, most likely in the next 2 or so years. It accomplished its main goal, which was the removal of both the Taliban and AQ from power, meaning it was certainly not an unavailing task.

So the use of Sisyphean was incorrect. The writer did so in an attempt to appear learned, but instead appeared stupid.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Its not my job to dig up all your past posts on the subject chicken man, as you still have no comments on current Iraqi events on the ground.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Its not my job to dig up all your past posts on the subject chicken man, as you still have no comments on current Iraqi events on the ground.
It damn well is your job when you incorrectly claim I said something that I never said. The onus is on YOU to provide proof of that claim which you have thoroughly and completely failed to do. That's no surprise though since I've owned you so thoroughly in regard to al Sadr over the years. It's another example of your failed predicitons regarding Iraq and the ME in general because you are not grounded in reality.

That's not to mention your claim of Sadr being head of the largest political bloc in Iraq. Sadr is still hiding out in Iran and won't even appear in Parliament in Iraq. The only reason his minor political bloc had any importance at all is because they were the swing vote recently in determining which political bloc in Iraq would be the majority. Apparently you are absolutely clueless about that though because despite all your bravado and pretenses, you obviously don't know squat about Iraqi government.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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As Cybrsage asserts, "The war in Afghanistan certainly had a beginning and will certainly have an end, most likely in the next 2 or so years. It accomplished its main goal, which was the removal of both the Taliban and AQ from power, meaning it was certainly not an unavailing task."

As Cybrsage proves the definition of sisyphean, and yes I did google it. Your delusion cybrsage seems to be in thinking that the viability of the US occupation of Afghanistan will even last out the year 2012. At this point, Nato cannot win, and the Sgt Bales incident is the final final US death knell. I don't like the Taliban any better than you do, but for now, its Vietnam all over again. Karzai can't unite the country either, and by default the Taliban is the only home team Afghanistan has. On a brighter note, the Taliban has changed, and no longer is being run by religious nuts. Older line CIA trained Mujaheddin types who beat the Russians now unite against US domination.

I am also optimistic that Afghanistan will become part of the modern world, but the USA has proved they are the problem and no part of any solution.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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I am also optimistic that Afghanistan will become part of the modern world, but the USA has proved they are the problem and no part of any solution.
The US has provided Afghanistan the opportunity to be a part of the modern world but it's not happening because they don't want to relinquish their old ways. Thus far they have indicated that they want to remain in the stone age. The problem is not the US, it's Afghanistan. Your Chomskyist bias (an outdated philosophy, btw) that the US is the problem precludes you from recognizing that. Stay grounded in the stoneage LL. Your attitude mirrors that of the Afghanis. It's always everyone else problem, not theirs.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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I am also optimistic that Afghanistan will become part of the modern world, but the USA has proved they are the problem and no part of any solution.
This statement pretty much sums up LL's warped insanity. He's "optimistic" that a tribalistic, fundy-religious, uneducated, and corrupt society (and I use the term society loosely) with minimal technology or economy, can become part of the modern world... meanwhile, the United States isn't just the problem in this equation, it's not part of any solution. This is a man who stares at a rotting corpse and declares it a flower bed and shakes his fist mightily at the facts of reality.

This is the same LL whose favorite saying is the the Taliban won a beauty contest with the US, meanwhile over 4 out of 5 deaths are the result of the Taliban, who mostly kill their own people. There's no such thing as a fucking beauty contest when the culture is generally ignorant and regressive... the outcomes of any contest under these conditions is meaningless, especially when you're dealing with people who will bring violence and upon those who cooperate. Why would any Afghan support NATO/US/ISAF when most every time an irrigation ditch is built, a medical center rises, food-aid is distributed, police are trained, or a school is repaired all you'll get is payback suffering in return by the insurgency?

The only thing -and I mean the ONLY thing- LL gets almost right is the claim that the US/World could have done a better job, but even then most of the particulars are wrong. I'll be happy when we do leave, one reason being so I'm not condemned to more years of repeated LL stupidity, over, and over, and over again...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I see cwjerome learned something from the ancient Greeks, namely, if you don't like the message, kill the messenger.

As cwjerome goes on to describe the Afghan people as hopeless savages. And without even trying to walk a half inch in Afghan shoes, ole CWJ fails to understand exactly why Nato behavior so badly alienated the Afghan and Pakistani people.

Basically cwjerome, if you don't try to understand people, you learn nothing.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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An update on Afghanistan. The Afghanis and US are going to sign a long term pact.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-laurenti/can-usafghan-pact-paint-t_b_1447166.html?ref=world

Looks like the OP missed the mark. The lights are still on and will be for a significant time.
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I agree that a Karazai government may be able to ink such a deal, the problem is and remains, such a deal will last no longer than the Karzai puppet government. Since the Karazai corrupt government has a nearly 10 year track record of being the root problem in Afghanistan and no part of the solution, the USA and nato can pretend to leaves the lights on in Afghanistan, while bleed blood and treasure the longer they stay.

Or we can wait for a smarter President to let the Karazai government stand on its own, call it peace with honor, just like in Vietnam.

Chicken man, what give you the idea after 10 years of alienating the Afghan people, the the USA and Nato will suddenly turn things around in the next two years?

And to answer myself, yes its possible, but not without radical changes in the US and Nato policies. And after ponying up the 620,000 troops needed, the very next step would be in getting totally rid of the Karzai government. Personally I don't think Hamid Karzai is such a bad guy, its the corrupt turds that he surrounds himself with that are the real deal killers.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Afghanistan, the place Americans go to die.

Cause we're most certainly not there to 'win'.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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I agree that a Karazai government may be able to ink such a deal, the problem is and remains, such a deal will last no longer than the Karzai puppet government. Since the Karazai corrupt government has a nearly 10 year track record of being the root problem in Afghanistan and no part of the solution, the USA and nato can pretend to leaves the lights on in Afghanistan, while bleed blood and treasure the longer they stay.

Or we can wait for a smarter President to let the Karazai government stand on its own, call it peace with honor, just like in Vietnam.

Chicken man, what give you the idea after 10 years of alienating the Afghan people, the the USA and Nato will suddenly turn things around in the next two years?

And to answer myself, yes its possible, but not without radical changes in the US and Nato policies. And after ponying up the 620,000 troops needed, the very next step would be in getting totally rid of the Karzai government. Personally I don't think Hamid Karzai is such a bad guy, its the corrupt turds that he surrounds himself with that are the real deal killers.
Keep answering yourself LL because you seem to be one of the only people who believes what you say in here. You can always convince yourself of your own righteousness no matter how wrong or misguided those beliefs turn out to be.

Case in point...this thread.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
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