Turkey starts EU membership negotations

[Czar]

Oh I know how that feels, expecialy when you accidentaly press back.. arg..

but anyway

Your points about turkey is very true. About the EU then the huge population of Turkey will not benefit the EU as much as you think. It will for the most part create a large workforce .. a large cheap workforce which many companies will try to hire instead of local workers. This would help Turkey somewhat but drag many EU countries down.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Czar
Oh I know how that feels, expecialy when you accidentaly press back.. arg..

but anyway

Your points about turkey is very true. About the EU then the huge population of Turkey will not benefit the EU as much as you think. It will for the most part create a large workforce .. a large cheap workforce which many companies will try to hire instead of local workers. This would help Turkey somewhat but drag many EU countries down.

Yeah, i don't think it's either the first or last time i'll try that!

That will be one of the problems. But my, as well as many others, opinion is that a workforce will have to be able to handle a thing such as that. Either through unions, in much the way denmark does it, or just through a flexible market.
But what you best remember is, that before many east-european conutries were added, the very same thing was the only real problem that was with them joining. But as it has turned out, it wasn't, yet, an explosion like surge in the number of foreign workers. SO i hope it might work out, and that the bigger european countries will find a way to get their economies back up.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Czar
Oh I know how that feels, expecialy when you accidentaly press back.. arg..

but anyway

Your points about turkey is very true. About the EU then the huge population of Turkey will not benefit the EU as much as you think. It will for the most part create a large workforce .. a large cheap workforce which many companies will try to hire instead of local workers. This would help Turkey somewhat but drag many EU countries down.

Yeah, i don't think it's either the first or last time i'll try that!

That will be one of the problems. But my, as well as many others, opinion is that a workforce will have to be able to handle a thing such as that. Either through unions, in much the way denmark does it, or just through a flexible market.
But what you best remember is, that before many east-european conutries were added, the very same thing was the only real problem that was with them joining. But as it has turned out, it wasn't, yet, an explosion like surge in the number of foreign workers. SO i hope it might work out, and that the bigger european countries will find a way to get their economies back up.

I hope it works out as well, but I have a feeling that when Turkey fully join the EU expansion will end because so much money and attention will be put in to reforming Turkey.

It is true that the local laws will dicated what the mininum wage is and therefore slow down the wave of workers. But rarely is the minimum wage close to what people are actually paying.

we can only hope for the best, could turn out fantasticly well

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Czar
Oh I know how that feels, expecialy when you accidentaly press back.. arg..

but anyway

Your points about turkey is very true. About the EU then the huge population of Turkey will not benefit the EU as much as you think. It will for the most part create a large workforce .. a large cheap workforce which many companies will try to hire instead of local workers. This would help Turkey somewhat but drag many EU countries down.

Yeah, i don't think it's either the first or last time i'll try that!

That will be one of the problems. But my, as well as many others, opinion is that a workforce will have to be able to handle a thing such as that. Either through unions, in much the way denmark does it, or just through a flexible market.
But what you best remember is, that before many east-european conutries were added, the very same thing was the only real problem that was with them joining. But as it has turned out, it wasn't, yet, an explosion like surge in the number of foreign workers. SO i hope it might work out, and that the bigger european countries will find a way to get their economies back up.

I hope it works out as well, but I have a feeling that when Turkey fully join the EU expansion will end because so much money and attention will be put in to reforming Turkey.

It is true that the local laws will dicated what the mininum wage is and therefore slow down the wave of workers. But rarely is the minimum wage close to what people are actually paying.

we can only hope for the best, could turn out fantasticly well

If the expansion of Eu stops for a while because of Turkey, so be it, we still need turkey in the EU!
And you are wrong, there are currently no laws that dictate the minimum wage. There are for danes, but for immigrants working, they work for peas, or atleast, polish or turkish rates.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: Czar
Oh I know how that feels, expecialy when you accidentaly press back.. arg..

but anyway

Your points about turkey is very true. About the EU then the huge population of Turkey will not benefit the EU as much as you think. It will for the most part create a large workforce .. a large cheap workforce which many companies will try to hire instead of local workers. This would help Turkey somewhat but drag many EU countries down.

Yeah, i don't think it's either the first or last time i'll try that!

That will be one of the problems. But my, as well as many others, opinion is that a workforce will have to be able to handle a thing such as that. Either through unions, in much the way denmark does it, or just through a flexible market.
But what you best remember is, that before many east-european conutries were added, the very same thing was the only real problem that was with them joining. But as it has turned out, it wasn't, yet, an explosion like surge in the number of foreign workers. SO i hope it might work out, and that the bigger european countries will find a way to get their economies back up.

I hope it works out as well, but I have a feeling that when Turkey fully join the EU expansion will end because so much money and attention will be put in to reforming Turkey.

It is true that the local laws will dicated what the mininum wage is and therefore slow down the wave of workers. But rarely is the minimum wage close to what people are actually paying.

we can only hope for the best, could turn out fantasticly well

If the expansion of Eu stops for a while because of Turkey, so be it, we still need turkey in the EU!
And you are wrong, there are currently no laws that dictate the minimum wage. There are for danes, but for immigrants working, they work for peas, or atleast, polish or turkish rates.

oh damn, I thought it was the same there as it is in Iceland

 

[TheTurk]

I am glad that no one @ Anandtech was unreasonable to bring Culture and religion as an issue as some post-modern fascist leaders in Europe.

That shows that members of this forum are quite enlighten and humanistic.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: TheTurk
I am glad that no one @ Anandtech was unreasonable to bring Culture and religion as an issue as some post-modern fascist leaders in Europe.

That shows that members of this forum are quite enlighten and humanistic.

so culture and religion isnt an issue?

 

[imported_alp]

anyway, don't blame britain, we are the biggest supporter of turkey in the eu

and it's (just) over half of us support it... i think

 

[NJDevil]

I think Turkey should recognize the Armenian Gednocide before they are allowed in. It'd be like Germany being in denial of the Holocaust ... or Japan's semi-denial of the "Rape of Nanking."

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: Martin

Originally posted by: ntdz
Who cares?

poeple whose view of the world is slightly more sophisticated than this?

Hahaha. Nice one Martin.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: NJDevil
I think Turkey should recognize the Armenian Gednocide before they are allowed in. It'd be like Germany being in denial of the Holocaust ... or Japan's semi-denial of the "Rape of Nanking."

Turkey should be forced to recognize a genocide to an organization that is filled with members that refuse to acknowledge their own genocides? Germany has denied genocides too. They only recently apologized for some of their actions last year!

 

[Stunt]

One thing people fail to recognize with the EU/Turkey situation is turkey is a massive and poor country; this alone has significant issues let alone culture, race, inclusiveness, etc.

See the following analogy:

GDP per capita:
EU/Turkey - $26,900/$7,400
US/Mexico - $40,000/$9,600

Population:
EU/Turkey - 457m/70m
US/Mexico - 296m/106m

The comparison isnt too far off. So I ask americans who are critical for not allowing Turkey into the EU; ask yourself if you would let mexico into the US...

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Stunt
One thing people fail to recognize with the EU/Turkey situation is turkey is a massive and poor country; this alone has significant issues let alone culture, race, inclusiveness, etc.

See the following analogy:

GDP per capita:
EU/Turkey - $26,900/$7,400
US/Mexico - $40,000/$9,600

Population:
EU/Turkey - 457m/70m
US/Mexico - 296m/106m

The comparison isnt too far off. So I ask americans who are critical for not allowing Turkey into the EU; ask yourself if you would let mexico into the US...

They are letting Turkey into the EU, not merging with another country.

Puerto Rico has about half the GDP per capita as the US and many want it to become a state.

 

[Stunt]

Puerto Rico is nowhere near the population ratio of Turkey and EU.

Turkey would be entitled to many of the benefits a mexican united state would get.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Puerto Rico is nowhere near the population ratio of Turkey and EU.

Turkey would be entitled to many of the benefits a mexican united state would get.

It's still not the same thing.

The EU would most likely prevent Turkish immigration anyways.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Stunt
One thing people fail to recognize with the EU/Turkey situation is turkey is a massive and poor country; this alone has significant issues let alone culture, race, inclusiveness, etc.

See the following analogy:

GDP per capita:
EU/Turkey - $26,900/$7,400
US/Mexico - $40,000/$9,600

Population:
EU/Turkey - 457m/70m
US/Mexico - 296m/106m

The comparison isnt too far off. So I ask americans who are critical for not allowing Turkey into the EU; ask yourself if you would let mexico into the US...

Good point, but as I understand it, Mexico is already flooding into the US at a rate of tens of thousands of people a year, maybe if it was part of the US and had federal money to help development they wouldn't feel they had to break the law and immigrate illegaly. Integration is the way forward.

 

[TheTurk]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Stunt
One thing people fail to recognize with the EU/Turkey situation is turkey is a massive and poor country; this alone has significant issues let alone culture, race, inclusiveness, etc.

See the following analogy:

GDP per capita:
EU/Turkey - $26,900/$7,400
US/Mexico - $40,000/$9,600

Population:
EU/Turkey - 457m/70m
US/Mexico - 296m/106m

The comparison isnt too far off. So I ask americans who are critical for not allowing Turkey into the EU; ask yourself if you would let mexico into the US...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


the US is a sovereing state and has been so for last 230 years.
EU is not a sovereign state but a supra-national organization.
Hopefuly, thank God to Brits, it will stay so, without being a christo-fascist state.

TSo, your analogy is quite wrong.

also, what does "let alone, culture, race, inclusivenss etc" mean?

what has race got to do with this now?

Are Europeans share a common race?
As far as I know, modern man emigrated to Europe through Anatolian peninsula, which is Asian Turkey today.

Be scientific!

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Stunt
Puerto Rico is nowhere near the population ratio of Turkey and EU.

Turkey would be entitled to many of the benefits a mexican united state would get.

It's still not the same thing.

The EU would most likely prevent Turkish immigration anyways.

Completely free movement and migration between all the EU countries.

 

[Oric]

Not quite right, Turkey has signed another agreemnt a few years ago that foregoes Turkey's rights for free movement of population for the day that it becomes a member.

What remains is economical and procedural (laws, tarriffs etc) integration

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: NJDevil
I think Turkey should recognize the Armenian Gednocide before they are allowed in. It'd be like Germany being in denial of the Holocaust ... or Japan's semi-denial of the "Rape of Nanking."

Turkey should be forced to recognize a genocide to an organization that is filled with members that refuse to acknowledge their own genocides? Germany has denied genocides too. They only recently apologized for some of their actions last year!

Really? I thought that their prime minister got down on his knees in 86 and apologized. If any other European nation has killed 500k (low estimates of Armenian Genocide), they should have to acknowledge that past before entrance into the EU.

I think it's pretty crazy that people are even considering allowing this nation in while it is in flat out denial of this massacre of innocents.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Oric
Not quite right, Turkey has signed another agreemnt a few years ago that foregoes Turkey's rights for free movement of population for the day that it becomes a member.

What remains is economical and procedural (laws, tarriffs etc) integration

Yes, but we are at least 15 years away from the possible Turkey integration in the EU. If eventually they could reach the economic figures required for membership they would get full membership including free movement of population. Diplomacy has its rules... if you want to get something, you must be willing to concede something, at least in the beginning.
The point is: I think that the EU would benefit from Turkey entering the union. Still, they are very far from the economic numbers required by the EU stability pact. We are discussing about something that could be veeeery far away anyway. Give them their chance.

 

[Lonyo]

It's useful, or could be, because whether people want to accept it or not, many countries will be needing inward migration, especially of those qualified to do service sector jobs.

 

[fornax]

I don't see how Europe will benefit from Turkey entering the EU. Turkey is not a European country, and it's culture and values are far from Europe. That doesn't mean it's inherently bad somehow, it's just that Turkey doesn't belong to Europe. Enough poor people came or are coming to the EU already (Romania, Bulgaria, Poland), but at least these are countries whose roots and culture are shared with the EU.