Tuesday Brainteasers

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Here are two brainteasers for those bored at work this Tuesday.
If you know the answer to the easier one right away, attempt a solution at the harder one as well before posting
your solution to allow others a chance to solve it as well.

Problem #1 "Brazilian Football" (Easy):

In standard American Football, 7 points are awarded for a touchdown (if the extra-point kick is succesful), and 3 points are awarded for a field goal. Assuming these are the only way ways to score (and every extra-point kick
after a touchdown is succesful), then the highest impossible team score in US Football is 11 points-- any higher score can be attained through some combination of touchdowns and field goals.

Let's say they start playing American Football in Brazil, but every year they adjust the number of points awarded for each score to compensate for inflation. After 5 years, a touchdown in "Brazilian Football" is worth 43 points (if the extra kick is succesful) and a field goal is worth 17 points. Is there a highest impossible team score if these are the only two scoring methods, and if so, what is it?



Problem #2 "Making Money in a Down Market" (Harder):

Let's say that you have a choice between two mutual funds to invest a fixed amount of money into.
Fund A is very predictable, but in a bad way: every fifth day, it's value drops 1%. The other days the value remains completely unchanged.

Fund B is wild, but flat: Each day, there is a 50% chance the value goes up 10%, and a 50% chance the value goes down 10%

Is there some investment strategy you can follow that will guarantee you a long-term profit? If so, what is it? Or if not, why not? You must keep all of your money in the two investments, so your choice each day is how much of your money to invest in each Mutual Fund.

Does anything change if Fund B instead has a 50% chance to double in value, and a 50% to halve in value each day?
 

Feneant2

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
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These aren't brain teasers, they are math problems... I think I'll just do some work instead.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
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The problems are both stupid because:

1) They are entirely in bold and hard to read.

2) They are far from being real-world scenarios, as problem #1 ignores the safety and two-point conversion; problem #2 implies that you must invest this money in two completely ridiculous manners that only an idiot would put money in to. Seriously? An account who's track record is losing money and an account who's track record statistically breaks even?
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: Feneant2
These aren't brain teasers, they are math problems... I think I'll just do some work instead.

D'fferent strokes for d'ffrent folks, I suppose. It's true you may have to do some addition or multiplication
in the course of solving these, but most of the "work" in solving these types of problems is just strict use of
some straightforward, logical reasoning.
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
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Originally posted by: venkman
what the hell does "highest impossible" mean?

It means that there is a score that is not at all attainable. If a field goal is worth 17 points and a touchdown is 43 points, then 17, 34, and 43 are the only attainable scores below or equal to one touchdown. I'm no pro at this, but the highest attainable score could be astronomical and limited only by the time in the game. I mean, there is bound to be some gap in combinations of 17's and 43's well into at least the thousands and possibly much further.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Your first scenario is not even accurate because you can score a safety (2 points) or go for a two point conversion after a touchdown. 11 points is not impossible to get.

the teacher who gave you these homework problems is a moron.
 

MikeyLSU

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: CPA
Your first scenario is not even accurate because you can score a safety (2 points) or go for a two point conversion after a touchdown. 11 points is not impossible to get.

the teacher who gave you these homework problems is a moron.

he said to assume TDs and FGs are the only scoring methods, I'm sure this is to simplify the problem.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
Originally posted by: CPA
Your first scenario is not even accurate because you can score a safety (2 points) or go for a two point conversion after a touchdown. 11 points is not impossible to get.

the teacher who gave you these homework problems is a moron.

he said to assume TDs and FGs are the only scoring methods, I'm sure this is to simplify the problem.

So what happens in a game if the defense tackles the ballcarrier in their own endzone? I need to know this.
 

toslat

Senior member
Jul 26, 2007
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#2 Given that the sequence of event that market B loses 10% everyday is possible, then you cannot 'guarantee'. Expected profit is different
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: Injury
The problems are both stupid because:

1) They are entirely in bold and hard to read.

My apologies. I forgot the extra slash to end the bold tag after the first puzzle header. It's been fixed.

2) They are far from being real-world scenarios, as problem #1 ignores the safety and two-point conversion; problem #2 implies that you must invest this money in two completely ridiculous manners that only an idiot would put money in to. Seriously? An account who's track record is losing money and an account who's track record statistically breaks even?

Almost all puzzles and brainteasers are mere imitations of real-world scenarios. I mean... when was the last time a king offered you his virgin daughter as a reward if you could tell which of 3 exterior light switches operates a light bulb inside of a locked, windowless room? Or when was the last time you were locked inside of a solid steel cage with just a mirror, a flashlight, and a wood table and had to find a way out?

Yes, the football puzzle is simplified in that we aren't counting two-point conversions and safeties. You could add them to the puzzle, assign them different point values, and while it would make you have to do more a bit more calculating it doesn't change the underlying logic of the solution one bit.
 

chuckywang

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
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Hmm ... problem 2 is something to do with Parrando's paradox, but I can't quite find a good combination of the two funds.
 

Epic Fail

Diamond Member
May 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: Injury
2) They are far from being real-world scenarios, as problem #1 ignores the safety and two-point conversion; problem #2 implies that you must invest this money in two completely ridiculous manners that only an idiot would put money in to. Seriously? An account who's track record is losing money and an account who's track record statistically breaks even?

Making 10% and losing 10% consistently is not break even.
 

QED

Diamond Member
Dec 16, 2005
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Here's a hint for Problem #1:

This may seem obvious, but note that 17 "touchdowns" is worth exactly as much 43 "fieldgoals".
Also note that 2 "touchdowns" is worth exactly one more point than 5 "field goals".

From these two facts, you can determine that 43-5=38 "fieldgoals" is worth exactly
one more point than 17-2=15 "touchdowns" .
 

thirtythree

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2001
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How can you make money in #2? I'm no math wiz, but with B it seems like you're basically going to end up around (amount invested)*(1.1*.9)^(number of days/2), and 1.1*.9 is .99. Fund A can't get you ahead in any way, and there's really no basis for timing your investment in B that I can think of. If it changes to 50% the odds are even worse.

Do you know the answer?
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
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Originally posted by: Epic Fail
Originally posted by: Injury
2) They are far from being real-world scenarios, as problem #1 ignores the safety and two-point conversion; problem #2 implies that you must invest this money in two completely ridiculous manners that only an idiot would put money in to. Seriously? An account who's track record is losing money and an account who's track record statistically breaks even?

Making 10% and losing 10% consistently is not break even.


Regardless, I'd like to think you get the point that even though you might make a small percentage of money depending on the day that it would be a stupid investment if it won't even keep up with inflation and that you have a better chance of making money in a crap savings account.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
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Originally posted by: CPA
Your first scenario is not even accurate because you can score a safety (2 points) or go for a two point conversion after a touchdown. 11 points is not impossible to get.

the teacher who gave you these homework problems is a moron.

Don't forget 1 point safeties.