• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Tucker spanks cheeto, will there be a tweetstorm?

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
22,010
3,583
136
Is this a sign of his "supporters" slowly pulling away?
In Potentially Big Sign Of Trouble For Trump, Even Fox News Allies Like Tucker Carlson Now Turning On Him

https://www.inquisitr.com/5197625/in-potentially-big-sign-of-trouble-for-trump-even-fox-news-allies-like-tucker-carlson-now-turning-on-him/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=yahoo&utm_campaign=homepage

The inquisitr article was based on this interview by DIE WELTWOCHE, a weekly Swiss magazine
https://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/2018-49/artikel/trump-is-not-capable-die-weltwoche-ausgabe-49-2018.html
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ichinisan

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,710
3,864
136
Read the article.. He said some interesting things, and then some really fucked up things, especially if you consider their implications.

I find his whole thesis of how "we" (ie the govt) needs to "slow and control" change as horrifying and an invitation to deny freedoms through big govt control.

I think he is correct in that the Democrats have forgotten the needs of the middle class, and that the Republicans are beginning to win them even though they have no interest in them.

The fact that they are losing to people like Tucker and his perverse views is a sad state and a case for change.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
16,860
6,628
136
You need Fox to burn out bright just as much as Trumpism.. Fox++ is the real threat to your democracy, Trump just hitched/hijacked a ride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kage69 and dank69

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,555
1,543
136
Came in here expecting big news that Tucker the Sucker found the Urine-splattered Incest Yam's dick, should have known better.
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,544
3,697
126
Read the article.. He said some interesting things, and then some really fucked up things, especially if you consider their implications.

I find his whole thesis of how "we" (ie the govt) needs to "slow and control" change as horrifying and an invitation to deny freedoms through big govt control.

I think he is correct in that the Democrats have forgotten the needs of the middle class, and that the Republicans are beginning to win them even though they have no interest in them.

The fact that they are losing to people like Tucker and his perverse views is a sad state and a case for change.
How do you figure?

Republicans have done well with the middle class by selling their bullshit lies for decades so I don't know where this "beginning to win them" thought is coming from (unless its just with regards to the gains from Obama, which well, we've discussed why that is quite a lot and it basically boils down to the largest disinformation campaign in human history leveraging that groups' biases). White middle class America has always been the group that you need to win over to get meaningful change made in the US and that group skews conservative. As such, that group has historically been quite racist/sexist and self-interested, so unless you make a huge fucking fuss about something and or make them have to deal with it in their own lives they'll ignore it so they can sit back enjoy their TV while they fatten themselves up and raise their children to do the same.

Republicans have been actively shitting on them more than any one (while claiming to be their champions). They learned to make a huge fuss about made up bullshit and/or massively distorted information to get them to listen and support them, but that sometimes backfires when they fuck it up and reality steps in (Civil Rights movement for instance, where it took confronting them with TV footage of the insane racism they were allowing; and with Vietnam it wasn't until they had to deal with their sons coming back haunted that they pushed for change). The problem is, conservatives have bled the middle class bad, and its literally leading to them die (thanks to opiates and economic policies and suicides), so they had to ratchet up their rhetoric to keep them fed on fear and lies, and its what's led us to Reagan and beyond. That might look like "winning them over" but its leading to the same place its led before, where they will eventually have to face reality. Same as it always was. That's just how America operates and has been true for its entire history, literally from its founding even.

I'm not sure that's any different from most other countries though.

Which, I guess it depends on what you consider the "needs of the middle class". Is it their actual needs, or is the the things they think are their needs? Their actual needs would be to address growing economic divide, climate change, health care, not partake in war, and to build a middle class that is diverse (which will bring stability in that it will help bigots and other nefarious people from being able to manipulate them as much; diversity is inherently inclusionary, which means it would enable upward mobility for people that historically have been disadvantaged - which would build the middle class even more). The Democrats have been working to address all of those things. The Republicans have done less than nothing on them, and are actually often working to make those things horrible for the middle class.

There's no doubt that Republicans have figured out how to be able to lie to their faces (that's kinda the crux of the issue though) and know they'll choose to remain ignorant instead of educating themselves, but saying because Americans would rather be fed dishonesty than actually deal with this shit, that Democrats have forgotten their needs is an outright lie.

They aren't losing them, those people were already lost and refuse to fucking find their way. They want someone else to do it for them. They ignore shit until they can't. This has been an ongoing problem through American history (again, I don't know that's actually uniquely American even, so its really human history).

You need Fox to burn out bright just as much as Trumpism.. Fox++ is the real threat to your democracy, Trump just hitched/hijacked a ride.
Its the same methods and mentality behind both. What needs to be addressed are the underlying aspects (biases) that enable those to work. I know it doesn't seem like it, but we actually have been doing that over time, slowly. Yes, we often get reminded how little progress we've actually made, but it is being made, and we just need to try to keep from having major setbacks, or use those as moments to push back and push forward.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,230
136
First Napolitano, now Tucker? Nah, Hannity won't go there.
I don't understand why Hannity was always such a shameless shill for Trump. Even during the early campaign. Even before the campaign.

I can't stand either of them.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,710
3,864
136
How do you figure?

Republicans have done well with the middle class by selling their bullshit lies for decades so I don't know where this "beginning to win them" thought is coming from (unless its just with regards to the gains from Obama, which well, we've discussed why that is quite a lot and it basically boils down to the largest disinformation campaign in human history leveraging that groups' biases). White middle class America has always been the group that you need to win over to get meaningful change made in the US and that group skews conservative. As such, that group has historically been quite racist/sexist and self-interested, so unless you make a huge fucking fuss about something and or make them have to deal with it in their own lives they'll ignore it so they can sit back enjoy their TV while they fatten themselves up and raise their children to do the same.

Republicans have been actively shitting on them more than any one (while claiming to be their champions). They learned to make a huge fuss about made up bullshit and/or massively distorted information to get them to listen and support them, but that sometimes backfires when they fuck it up and reality steps in (Civil Rights movement for instance, where it took confronting them with TV footage of the insane racism they were allowing; and with Vietnam it wasn't until they had to deal with their sons coming back haunted that they pushed for change). The problem is, conservatives have bled the middle class bad, and its literally leading to them die (thanks to opiates and economic policies and suicides), so they had to ratchet up their rhetoric to keep them fed on fear and lies, and its what's led us to Reagan and beyond. That might look like "winning them over" but its leading to the same place its led before, where they will eventually have to face reality. Same as it always was. That's just how America operates and has been true for its entire history, literally from its founding even.

I'm not sure that's any different from most other countries though.

Which, I guess it depends on what you consider the "needs of the middle class". Is it their actual needs, or is the the things they think are their needs? Their actual needs would be to address growing economic divide, climate change, health care, not partake in war, and to build a middle class that is diverse (which will bring stability in that it will help bigots and other nefarious people from being able to manipulate them as much; diversity is inherently inclusionary, which means it would enable upward mobility for people that historically have been disadvantaged - which would build the middle class even more). The Democrats have been working to address all of those things. The Republicans have done less than nothing on them, and are actually often working to make those things horrible for the middle class.

There's no doubt that Republicans have figured out how to be able to lie to their faces (that's kinda the crux of the issue though) and know they'll choose to remain ignorant instead of educating themselves, but saying because Americans would rather be fed dishonesty than actually deal with this shit, that Democrats have forgotten their needs is an outright lie.

They aren't losing them, those people were already lost and refuse to fucking find their way. They want someone else to do it for them. They ignore shit until they can't. This has been an ongoing problem through American history (again, I don't know that's actually uniquely American even, so its really human history).



Its the same methods and mentality behind both. What needs to be addressed are the underlying aspects (biases) that enable those to work. I know it doesn't seem like it, but we actually have been doing that over time, slowly. Yes, we often get reminded how little progress we've actually made, but it is being made, and we just need to try to keep from having major setbacks, or use those as moments to push back and push forward.
I figure based on the voting results.

I grant you that they have tried... But they are getting beat. Just the fact that Trump won voters in the $50-100k bracket (middle class) even though he promised to rip up their healthcare, pass a massive tax cut and give them pennies of it, and cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid is a flashing red light of Democrats failing to close the deal with the middle class.

It's frustrating. Trump/gop were lying their asses of... But the voters still didn't pull the lever for D.

Getting pissed off at the voters doesn't do any good, as they get to vote anyway. The party has to find a way to break through the lies and bullshit if they want to win them back, else Tucker's, Trump's, nationalist messages will carry the day and it's a disaster for the country.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,140
13,221
136
I figure based on the voting results.

I grant you that they have tried... But they are getting beat. Just the fact that Trump won voters in the $50-100k bracket (middle class) even though he promised to rip up their healthcare, pass a massive tax cut and give them pennies of it, and cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid is a flashing red light of Democrats failing to close the deal with the middle class.

It's frustrating. Trump/gop were lying their asses of... But the voters still didn't pull the lever for D.

Getting pissed off at the voters doesn't do any good, as they get to vote anyway. The party has to find a way to break through the lies and bullshit if they want to win them back, else Tucker's, Trump's, nationalist messages will carry the day and it's a disaster for the country.
America has been conditioned to hate liberals with a white hot hatred of burning hate. No message will ever get through to these people.

Dems: We want to implement government services you need that will make your life better
Conservatives: You are just trying to buy our votes
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,710
3,864
136
America has been conditioned to hate liberals with a white hot hatred of burning hate. No message will ever get through to these people.

Dems: We want to implement government services you need that will make your life better
Conservatives: You are just trying to buy our votes
It's hopeless to assume never. That's just giving up and resigning to losing.

Better leaders and better messages are needed. You can start to see she if that happening with AOC and send if the fresh faces coming in.

It won't just be them, won't be easy, but it's a fight that must be won.
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,544
3,697
126
I figure based on the voting results.

I grant you that they have tried... But they are getting beat. Just the fact that Trump won voters in the $50-100k bracket (middle class) even though he promised to rip up their healthcare, pass a massive tax cut and give them pennies of it, and cut SS/Medicare/Medicaid is a flashing red light of Democrats failing to close the deal with the middle class.

It's frustrating. Trump/gop were lying their asses of... But the voters still didn't pull the lever for D.

Getting pissed off at the voters doesn't do any good, as they get to vote anyway. The party has to find a way to break through the lies and bullshit if they want to win them back, else Tucker's, Trump's, nationalist messages will carry the day and it's a disaster for the country.
Except the voting results are looking favorable for the Dems post 2016.

He didn't actually claim those things though. He claimed bullshit (he was gonna give them better healthcare that would be cheaper, he was going to give them tax cuts that would only be good for them, did he even claim he was gonna cut entitlements? That just seems to be what Ryan and some other Rubs were pushing for, and now after their tax cuts they say they have to because of loss of tax revenue). That's the issue. If the idiots had bothered to learn jack shit, they'd have known that those would be the results of the shit Turmp was promising. But they wanted to believe bullshit instead. That's a completely different thing.

Yes and that happens pretty consistently. And then Dems get voted in to fix shit when it becomes impossible to ignore the Rubs fucking things up.

I disagree, social pressure actually does tend to accomplish things. Plus, if you want people to change how they vote, you have to inherently do something about them.

Which, what does blaming the Democrats accomplish? Even less. I don't get your mentality at all. Its fucking crazy, like I think its becoming fucking crazier than the idiots that keep voting Rubs, because they're pretty open about wanting to believe empty promises and lies, and have been stuck in that ideology for the entire lives, so at least there's consistency there (which is to say, assume they're lying hypocrites and you'll be set). Your argument is very similar to conservatives. Its not based in reality, provides no actual idea (let alone a solution), it just goes "well what the Dems do isn't working, so they need to change" except what the Dems do when in power consistently does work. That you want them to seemingly start using the same tactics and methods as Rubs is going to make it stop working as its going to lead to irrational idiots taking over that party too. We need people at the personal level to start holding themselves and others accountable for their voting. You don't even have to be a dick about it, but we have to keep hammering facts and rational logical arguments to counter the lies and disinformation. The changes have to be made at the ground level of American politics. That's where the rubs (and Russia) targeted, and that's where the focus for combating that needs to be, and build from there.

Its too late for that. That already fucking happened. Now we need to be looking for how to fix it. Some progress has already been made, but its going to take a lot of work as this is much much much bigger than any single person. Turmp is just a temporary face of the problem. This is not the first time we've had to deal with this mentality (it was actually arguably worse during Reagan, Nixon, hell even Eisenhower; I'd even say that Nationalist lean is less now than it was under Bush after 9/11; things are more complicated now, but its because we're dealing with big economic changes that were part of the recession, as well as future ones).
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
12,387
3,752
136
First Napolitano, now Tucker? Nah, Hannity won't go there.
Trump and Hannity: Two guys with humongously inflated egos, both of them using each other to inflate their egos even further. Both have absolutely no problem with using lies as both offensive and defensive weapons of mass deception in order to advance their personal agendas and that of their party that's wholly owned by the wealthy.

And both of them have the ability to exploit the use of nation-wide media dissemination to spread their lies, half-truths and outright fraud.

The damage these two mentally disturbed megalomaniacs have caused the nation via their hate filled diatribes and the fear mongering they used to divide the nation will not ever be forgotten.
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,544
3,697
126
It's hopeless to assume never. That's just giving up and resigning to losing.

Better leaders and better messages are needed. You can start to see she if that happening with AOC and send if the fresh faces coming in.

It won't just be them, won't be easy, but it's a fight that must be won.
No its not, its accurately realizing the situation.

This is total nonsense. Dems have proven to be better leaders. Even the allegedly bad Democrats that people like you act like there are that need to be changed, they're still much much much better leaders than the Rubs. "Better messaging" does not work on people choosing to be willfully irrational. Its baffling that you can clearly see that but keep arguing against it. If you keep hoping for messiahs you're never going to accomplish shit. We need real practical, pragmatic people in office, not ones that can blow smoke up our buts or that seem charming.

I do not get your point of view at all. You're essentially saying both the message and the people are wrong. Yet you'll say the message is fine but its the people, but then somehow that makes the message wrong too because it won't reach the people that just want to hear lies about how its some boogeyman to blame that Rubs will tell them. but because Rubs are shit, Which, the only way you reach those people is to lie to them or tell them the same shit, which won't help.

Now, sure we need more younger people really involved in politics and making their voices heard. That happens somewhat naturally (just simply because humans have limited lifespans), but that's not a new problem (younger people inherently will want to care more about other shit than politics). I really don't think there's any big upheaval necessary for all that. I think the more important thing is to live up to the message. Which Democrats are doing (just look how much more diverse Democrat politicians compared to Republicans). Its just taking time (and major social pressure, over stuff like racism and sexism) for the party that actually pushes for diversity to show it. That sucks, but its already happening. They didn't need a change in message, they needed people to open their fucking eyes. That's how its always worked and will always work though. So it wasn't the message it was the voters that needed to change.

That's why you stay on message, but you keep providing evidence for why that message is right, and you keep exposing why the alternate message by the Rubs is so bad. You show the systemic racism that conservatives try to claim wasn't happening. You expose rape culture and the many issues that women face, that again conservatives try to claim isn't real. You expose the bullshit of Rubs policies. You keep hammering it, so that when it happens, or when they try to use the same tactics, they can't (notice how they do everything possible to not call their economic policy trickle-down any more?) or they have to lie and then you hit them over and over about lying.

You do that and it works. It just takes time. And yes, Americans keep going back to believing Rubs' lies. But we don't improve things by pushing for Dems to follow suit.

This is always going to be an ongoing perpetual thing. There's not going to be a magical breakthrough that will fix this stuff, because you're dealing with human nature. You just have to adhere to it and back it up. You don't have to be an insufferable person that's always political, but you need to stand up big and small (big, by voting intelligently, small by calling out people pushing bullshit, be it coworkers, friends, etc - you don't even need to go out of your way to do that, just simple "do you really believe that?" when you hear crazy shit and respond simply with real evidence and then leave it at that).

Really though, its like you guys saying this stuff (that dems need to be better, change, get better leaders, etc) are actually just saying what you want Republicans to do, but you know conservatives won't listen, so you just keep projecting it as a shortfall of the Dems since that's one thing you feel you can influence. You need to recognize the situation and not push for them to go the route that Rubs did. Absolutely put some pressure for them to be good politicians. And pay attention to their voting record, and then let them know good and bad. That is naturally supposed to always be part of the situation. But stop trying to blame the Democrats for the issues that are not theirs.

You don't need to specify Dem/Rub (or whatever party of the country you're in) when you say we need non-corrupt, non lying leaders. That's inherent. So we're left with calling out the corrupt liars. That is our duties as citizens. And it always was, and always will be. That alone makes a huge difference. If some group refuses to do that, you call them out, and when it doesn't matter, you ignore them and focus on the politicians. Look how many Rub politicians have been stepping down simply because they're tired of hearing constantly about how fucking shit them and their policies are? Sure they might be replaced by other shitty Rub politicians, but you keep calling them out as well. And you support the ones that do well, especially when they get attacked by the shitty ones.

What Democrats need, is for Americans to fucking do their goddamn duty as citizens and to keep doing it. Vote, and do so intelligently. Call out politicians when they lie or do shitty things. Hold them accountable.

I don't give a flying fuck about the marketability or other aspects. I know that shit plays a role, and I think that sucks, so I will not champion that as something I want any politician or political party to do. Its already done far more than enough. I don't want someone who is a better marketer. I want someone that has the better product. Politically, I'm going to base it on how they voted, what they say (and if that holds up with how they vote and/or established evidence and knowledge if they don't have a voting record). If they're ignorant, I'll try and inform them. If they show its willful or malicious ignorance, then I'll try to highlight that and work to get them out of office. Yes, sadly, we're stuck having people that might overall do well for out interests, but have some that they don't support well. I will try to inform other people as well. If there's actual worthwhile legit discussion, great, I'll be open to changing my mind based on new information.

Ugh, didn't mean for two long winded posts, but I'm just sick of this "the Dems need to be better" arguments that I feel are often very wrong. I think we're in agreement more than not, and I'm not saying the Dems shouldn't improve or giving them a free pass (just that, right now, its absurd to be saying any of this shit is because of the Dems fault when it can directly be shown to be almost entirely because of Rubs fucking bullshit; so I feel like let's focus on getting those pieces of shit out of the way to get back on track and then we can delve into the more nuanced stuff).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BadTrip
Feb 4, 2009
31,385
11,788
136
I don't understand why Hannity was always such a shameless shill for Trump. Even during the early campaign. Even before the campaign.

I can't stand either of them.
They both used Cohen for some legal matters. Safe bet is they were friends before this President stuff.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
16,860
6,628
136
I don't understand why Hannity was always such a shameless shill for Trump. Even during the early campaign. Even before the campaign.

I can't stand either of them.
Hannity sure spews like he has everything on the line along with Trump. We all know how Trump will possibly go down (collusion, conspiracy, obstruction etc..), but Hannity? - There be skeletons there we cant see yet.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,280
3,811
126
What happened? Tucker ran out of Anti-Immigrant material?
Actually, Trump isn't #MAGA enough for Trumpians like Tucker. They want to win, and some of them are smart enough to know Trump is a loser.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
62,345
14,566
136
I do love it. Tucker criticized Trump for not accomplishing things that even our GOP Congress doesn't want.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY