TSMC Set to Produce Nvidia Maxwell Graphics Chips Using 20nm Process Technology.

[Siberian]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphi...hics_Chips_Using_20nm_Process_Technology.html

Looks like 28nm's days are numbered.

 

[jones377]

But Charlie D claims Maxwell will initially be built on 28nm... of course you have to pay him $50 to find out why. I wonder if he will start giving the money back (assuming anyone pays) if he ends up being wrong?

No, I won't link to his site anymore..

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Here I thought something crazy had happened and the upcomign GPU's were going to be on 20nm and then I realized that this is in 2014. Cool news either way, but nothing surprising.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not really news. The next one after Maxwell will be made on 16nm

 

[jacktesterson]

Not really news. The next one after Maxwell will be made on 16nm

How small can it go? honestly I've wondered as seems like die shrinks are moving quite fast

 

[firewolfsm]

How small can it go? honestly I've wondered as seems like die shrinks are moving quite fast

It feels too slow to me, but I know I'm impatient. Intel has a roadmap extending to 14->11->7 nm. By then graphene manipulation and optical interconnects should have matured enough to produce new types of chips, which Intel is also well into researching.

 

[lakedude]

How small can it go? honestly I've wondered as seems like die shrinks are moving quite fast

Seems to me graphics cards were stuck on 40nm for a long time.

Seems like Intel has been shrinking every 2 years or so.

 

[Rvenger]

Is Maxwell going to be a completely new architecture like GCN was?

 

[taltamir]

Seems to me graphics cards were stuck on 40nm for a long time.

that was due to the failure of both TSMC and Foundry Company to produce viable 3x nm tech; both canceled it after too many delays to focus on their 28nm tech.
Only intel had it for their CPUs.
Eventually we got 28nm as replacement for 40nm but it was much later then promised; with significantly worse power and thermals then expected.

Also, the x nm figures are pretty arbitrarily named. And intel manufacturing processes are typically one gen ahead for the same nm number compared to competition.

 

[3DVagabond]

Seems to me graphics cards were stuck on 40nm for a long time.

Seems like Intel has been shrinking every 2 years or so.

TSMC had serious issues with 40nm. The 4770 was released April(?) 2009 and had terrible yields. We didn't get 28nm until this year.

 

[Lepton87]

Also, the x nm figures are pretty arbitrarily named. And intel manufacturing processes are typically one gen ahead for the same nm number compared to competition.

How so? And in what metric? Certainly not transistor density which is right now the most important reason to shrink. Clocks didn't improve from 32nm to 22nm, rather they took a small step back. This was the first time it happened apart from 90nm to 65nm on AMD's process. And then was X800 130 low-k to 110nm where clocks also took a step back but those were different processes.
To be clear I'm not asking about the names but why do you think for example Intel's 45nm process is as good as anyone else's 32nm. Transistor density certainly doesn't support your argument.

 

[taltamir]

How so? And in what metric? Certainly not transistor density

Why so certain?

To be clear I'm not asking about the names but why do you think for example Intel's 45nm process is as good as anyone else's 32nm. Transistor density certainly doesn't support your argument.

I... don't remember the specifics; I remember that I looked over the important aspects as compared by the various processes and noticed the intel generational lead.
So, based on that recollection it would probably be power consumption, and/or thermals, and/or maybe density as well.

Idontcare (the user) can best explain it.

 

[Lonyo]

IIRC it was more a half node vs full node thing.

45nm full node, 40nm half, 32 full, 28 half, 22 full

Intel's 32nm full node was about the same as the TSMC 28nm half node, rather than full node vs different full node.

 

[BD231]

How small can it go? honestly I've wondered as seems like die shrinks are moving quite fast

We're 10 to 15 or so years away from seeing moores law expire.

 

[blastingcap]

Die shrinks could help with perf/watt and such things, but price/perf is unlikely to change that quickly:

http://www.extremetech.com/computin...y-with-tsmc-claims-22nm-essentially-worthless

Also, if Apple and Qualcomm keep trying to hog wafers at TSMC (there have been reports that Apple/Qualcomm have offered $1 billion+ to TSMC for an exclusivity contract, which TSMC has rejected up until this point), that would obviously raise wafer prices for NV/AMD GPUs, which would likely get passed along to the consumer = higher video card prices. Freaking Apple...

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/12/apple-reportedly-tapping-tsmc-for-20-nm-quad-core-chips/

 

[ShintaiDK]

How small can it go? honestly I've wondered as seems like die shrinks are moving quite fast

Atleast 5nm should be certain.

 

[Keysplayr]

Heh, if Apple sales suddenly stopped completely, no ipads, iphones, ipods, macbook anything, and no Itune sales (in other words not a single penny's worth of sales from anywhere) how many years would it take apple to close it's doors? 50? 100?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Heh, if Apple sales suddenly stopped completely, no ipads, iphones, ipods, macbook anything, and no Itune sales (in other words not a single penny's worth of sales from anywhere) how many years would it take apple to close it's doors? 50? 100?

Same year. Stock owners would demand the cash being payed out. They already gonna start milk the cash reserve from 2013.

 

[96Firebird]

This may be a little off-topic, but I'd really like to see GPU chips being fabricated in the US. Global Foundries recently opened their fab in Malta, NY, which produces 300mm wafers at 28nm or less. But I'm not sure to what capacity they are up to right now. I actually applied to a couple of jobs at this facility when I was unemployed, but didn't want to work the overnight shift and found a local job.

Just a little hope from me, fabricated chips locally would be a nice thing to have.

 

[nforce4max]

Good news for me when I finally get bored of using my 460 and my antiques.

 

[iMacmatician]

But Charlie D claims Maxwell will initially be built on 28nm... of course you have to pay him $50 to find out why. I wonder if he will start giving the money back (assuming anyone pays) if he ends up being wrong?

On the other hand, the Xbitlabs link does say "potentially," and also, Maxwell on 28 nm and Maxwell on 20 nm aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Maxwell wont be 28nm, only 20nm.

 

[3DVagabond]

This may be a little off-topic, but I'd really like to see GPU chips being fabricated in the US. Global Foundries recently opened their fab in Malta, NY, which produces 300mm wafers at 28nm or less. But I'm not sure to what capacity they are up to right now. I actually applied to a couple of jobs at this facility when I was unemployed, but didn't want to work the overnight shift and found a local job.

Just a little hope from me, fabricated chips locally would be a nice thing to have.

Romours also have it that TSMC is looking to build in Upstate NY.

 

[96Firebird]

Romours also have it that TSMC is looking to build in Upstate NY.

Very cool. :thumbsup:

Reading the article, the main reason seems to be because the US government wants their chips made in the USA. Guess that is one way to push for new fabs in the US...

 

[3DVagabond]

Very cool. :thumbsup:

Reading the article, the main reason seems to be because the US government wants their chips made in the USA. Guess that is one way to push for new fabs in the US...

Not going to let the Roswell tech leave the country.