Question Trying to improve my cooling...

[tinpanalley]

I 've got a CoolerMaster HAF-912. I want some cooler air circulating through this case. It's not cramped in there but I want to add more airflow. How do I determine what kind of fans are best? I'm not finding a lot of useful "keeping your PC build cool" articles online that talk about different fan quality. I currently have 10cm fans in the front and back bays. If you look at the site you'll see that there are 2 12cm spots on the top and one 12/14cm slot on the side. I also don't understand how to determine how many spots I have left for plugging fans in on my mobo (MSI B450 Tomahawk Max). Is there such a thing as a fan power splitter?

Thanks!

 

[Tech Junky]

I use Arctic P12/P14 PWM PST fans because you can daisy chain them together off single headers. Up to 3 is what I'm comfortable with per header due to amps/ volts each can supply. They're roughly $40 for a 5 pack of each size. Been running them for years across builds and they're silent even when they ramp up.

 

[tinpanalley]

I use Arctic P12/P14 PWM PST fans because you can daisy chain them together off single headers. Up to 3 is what I'm comfortable with per header due to amps/ volts each can supply. They're roughly $40 for a 5 pack of each size. Been running them for years across builds and they're silent even when they ramp up.

This image shows it best... I have a 120mm in the front (on the right of the image) and the hdds are in front of it. Then I have the one dead 120mm in the upper back (top left of the image). I don't think any can be placed on the floor because the PSU goes there. The top is completely free though. If I'm being honest, my main priority for these fans is quiet. The free ones that came with the case have always been noisy.

The available places for fans are...



What combination of fans/sizes would you recommend?

 

[Tech Junky]

OEM supplied fans tend to be noisy which is why I plan on purchased fans on my builds.

So, the back one is the exhaust normally. TOP / FRONT should be intakes to build positive pressure so dust doesn't come into the back.

You can probably fit 3 front / 3 top. If there's vents on the bottom you could squeeze a couple down there with some zip ties as well.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/C9zv6h/cooler-master-case-rc912kkn1

https://pcpartpicker.com/builds/by_part/C9zv6h

It all depends on how you're using the case and what all is inside taking up space. If you're not using the drive cage it's space for more fans. The more fans you put in side the lower the RPM's they typically run as more air is being cycled through to keep things chilly.

According to the excerpt a 5-pack of 120's would fit the bill. It depends more on what's in side though as to if you need that many in play though it doesn't hurt to have them. Odd thought that there's space for 200's as that's non-standard for so many reasons. Then again CM comes out with some funky designs like the HAF EVO I considered getting one for awhile but, then when I was at the store for ADL CPU I saw one in person and was glad I didn't get one / grew beyond one before getting one. IIRC it can take a 240 in the top screen or some ridiculous size like that. Way over priced now though for a case of that design when it used to be $90.

 

[tinpanalley]

It all depends on how you're using the case and what all is inside taking up space

I can only get 2 in the front. Not 3.
The bottom isn't doable because the PSU goes there and then there are some loose cables that quite frankly have nowhere else to be. It would be so crowded the fans probably wouldn't be able to do their job anyway.
Why is 200 non standard? I see people recommend them all the time,
I thought since heat rises that the back and top would be exhaust. Is that not correct?
Inside, I have a GPU, 2hdd, 2ssd and some optical drives but they don't get used enough to cause heating problems.

 

[Tech Junky]

front/top are good for intake because there's 4 spots in your case to pull cool air and create positive pressure to push out the back. There's also mention of a side spot to put another fan. So, 5 spots besides the exhaust.

The fans that came with it are static 3 pins that don't shift speed depending on the need which is another reason they're noisy. The Arctic's are 4-pin / PWM and adjust as needed. Mine usually are sitting around 600 RPM which barely makes any noise.



I have 5 x 140's between the front / top and 3 x 120's on the cooler / exhaust.

It's all up to you and how you want to manage things though. I would put 2 x front/top pulling air in and use the back for pushing it out.

I've got a Meshify 2 case that holds 3 front / 2 top / 1 back. If I wasn't in storage configuration I could put a 3rd in the top. Plenty of room on top of the PSU shroud to put a couple more if needed if I were using a high power GPU in the case I would put them in there.

The 200mm idea doesn't build enough pressure to keep the dust out or concentrate the airflow to push it across the MOBO to cool things IMO.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/case-fan/#s=200&sort=price&p=1

Looking at what's listed they're not a great value either when they take up the space where you can put dual 120's int he same spot. @ $33 for a single 200 you can get a 5-pack of 120's and cover all of your airflow needs.

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-ACFAN00137A-Value-Pack-Pressure-Optimized/dp/B07HC782D5

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-P14-Value-Pack-Pressure-optimised/dp/B07HCKWF2X

 

[tinpanalley]

I would put 2 x front/top pulling air in and use the back for pushing it out.

Thank you so much for all the analysis. Really really appreciate it.

So some new questions for you...
1. 120 vs 140, what makes that decision? The little bit of physics my brain comprehends suggests that the 140mm at a slightly larger size would probably tend to be more quiet at the same rpm? But I can't think of any other reason they'd be preferable. The 120mm are probably cheaper? Am I in the ballpark with that comparison of 120 vs 140?
2. Is there one brand or fan 'build-type' or something that is considered king when it comes to noise?
3. Can these all be chained together without being a mess inside? I probably won't have 5 fan power outlets I'm guessing on the motherboard.

 

[BoomerD]

I have a Coolermaster HAF 932. It originally came with 230 mm fans...3 of them. (front, top, and side panel) As time went by, those slowly died. Coolermaster recommended 200mm fans for replacements. I never did. It has ONE remaining 230mm fan and one 140mm exhaust fan. I've never had a heat issue in the case.
It's been sitting idle for a couple of years. I thought about finding some good fans to replace the 230's and bringing it back into service. I just like the thing...big, herky, and tons of air flow, with more room for expansion than I'll ever need. (I could house a village in this thing)

Depending on the actual 912 model, (these numbers are from the HAF 912 Plus or Advanced) yours could have 1 200mm fan in the front, 1 on the top, 120 in the rear, with the option of 120/140 on the side. You can replace the 200mm fans with 2 120mm fans if you choose. The 200 will move move air more quietly than the 120s because it spins slower, but the 120's will move more air.
Coolermaster (via Amazon) offers 2 200mm fans...both RGB

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-MasterFan-MF200R-Addressable/dp/B07VFTX7CW/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3QKLZ701C8IOE&keywords=coolermaster+200mm+fans&qid=1660984016&refinements=p_89%3ACooler+Master&rnid=172282&s=electronics&sprefix=coolermaster+200mm+fans%2Caps%2C128&sr=1-3

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-R4-200R-08FC-R1-MF200R-Take/dp/B0787G3W1K/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3QKLZ701C8IOE&keywords=coolermaster%2B200mm%2Bfans&qid=1660984016&refinements=p_89%3ACooler%2BMaster&rnid=172282&s=electronics&sprefix=coolermaster%2B200mm%2Bfans%2Caps%2C128&sr=1-1&th=1

For about the price of one of those, you can buy the 4 pack tech junky posted...you'll still need one more to fill ALL your available fan spots if you choose.

 

[Tech Junky]

https://computerinfobits.com/pc-airflow-optimization/

1. 120 vs 140, what makes that decision? The little bit of physics my brain comprehends suggests that the 140mm at a slightly larger size would probably tend to be more quiet at the same rpm? But I can't think of any other reason they'd be preferable. The 120mm are probably cheaper? Am I in the ballpark with that comparison of 120 vs 140?

Well, the bigger fans would be quieter they don't move as much air in CFM as two smaller fans would. 2 x 120 in the same spot can move ~120CFM where the 200mm might only move 80 CFM. While there's 3 200mm on the list that move about the same air volume they're also $45-$80/ea.

2. Is there one brand or fan 'build-type' or something that is considered king when it comes to noise?

The most hyped option is Noctua and you pay dearly for the name. I've used a few of them in the past but, switched them out for Arctic and no noticeable difference in acoustics or temps varying beyond what you could consider to be a difference within a small margin.

3. Can these all be chained together without being a mess inside? I probably won't have 5 fan power outlets I'm guessing on the motherboard.

Yes, they run in tandem and the pigtail off the host fan in each connection is very short to minimize the clutter. They tuck out of the way very easily. If you're OCD about cable management and tie / wrap them they would be minimally invasive. I just tuck them into spots around where they're located as the wiring is small enough to hide in nooks and crannies.

I probably won't have 5 fan power outlets I'm guessing on the motherboard.

If you have an mATX then chances are you have 4 headers to plug into and if it's ATX you probably have 6 or more to plug into. The Arctic's are helpful when it comes to CPU cooling as you usually have 1 maybe 2 headers for CPU on the board and controls in the BIOS for them for the RPM profile. If you have the MOBO info it's easy to look up in the manual as to how many headers and locations of them are.

 

[tinpanalley]

If you have the MOBO info it's easy to look up in the manual as to how many headers and locations of them are.

I have a B450 Tomahawk MAX. It's ATX.

Well, the bigger fans would be quieter they don't move as much air in CFM as two smaller fans would.

Ok, so I guess between 120 and 140 there's an even less noticeable, probably imperceptible, difference than between 120 and 200.

Yes, they run in tandem and the pigtail off the host fan in each connection is very short

Ok, well if I probably have more than 4 headers on my ATX motherboard, then I probably wouldn't need to chain them unless there was some benefit? It's surely the same power use. The chained SATA data cables already drive me a bit nuts with never quite being long enough between drives.

 

[Tech Junky]

1 x 4-pin CPU fan connector
1 x 4-pin water-pump-fan connector
4 x 4-pin system fan connectors

B450 TOMAHAWK MAX | Motherboard | MSI Global

Best AMD AM4 B450 ATX motherboard, Turbo M.2, Extended heatsink, USB 3.2 Gen 2, Mystic Light, MSI MAG

www.msi.com

If you have a CPU cooler that can handle two/three fans they come in helpful to use the single CPU header.

Depending on where the system headers are located they make it easy for a single cable to the header from the front / top locations and of course the single rear fan. This would be 3/4 of the case headers if you got creative and zip tide to more locations you could still daisy chain one more to the top/front and have one header leftover.

chained SATA data cables

I actually use a 5 drive cable to a single power of the PSU to keep things clean and it works great. Think it was $7 or something silly like that to keep things more organized in the storage space.

There are benefits to chaining things when it comes to management and clutter.

 

[tinpanalley]

If you have a CPU cooler

You mean the fan that rests on the CPU?

 

[Tech Junky]

Well, you have an air cooler or you have liquid cooling. If you're air cooled some tower offer 3 fans or 2 fans or the flat pack 1 fan on top.

 

[tinpanalley]

Well, you have an air cooler or you have liquid cooling. If you're air cooled some tower offer 3 fans or 2 fans or the flat pack 1 fan on top.

I literally have the CPU and the fan /heatsink that came with it. That's all I have installed.
I'm going to look for a 5-pack of 140mm Arctics as you recommended because yeah Noctuas look and sound lovely but they are WAY more expensive than what I think is necessary.
I'm going to put two in the front (IN), two on top (IN), and replace the dead back one (OUT). Then I'll take the current front one that still works (120mm) and use it on the side (IN). Someone was telling me that top AND back should be out. But I didn't understand their logic.

 

[Tech Junky]

So, you have something like this?

Or something like this?

If its the bottom one you have the option of 2-3 fans if there's a gap in the middle. The cooler I'm using doesn't have the middle gap but, uses 2 fans on either side in a push/pull that I setup. The cooler came with a single fan but, as a rule of thumb I toss OEM fans aside and put on my Arctic's in their place. 2 fans is better than a single anyway for more air / lower RPM's / silence. When you're dealing with monster CPU TDP potential you want a bit more and redundancy.

Most cooler towers like a 120 but, some of the flats like up to a 140. So, it depends on what's inside the CM chassis. The best bet is the 120's though as they'll fit every position you have available. This is why I said 200's are odd and not common. And from the pricing they're way over priced for a 200mm fan.

Just switching from a non-PWM fan to a PWM fan should make a difference as well.

 

[Tech Junky]

Someone was telling me that top AND back should be out. But I didn't understand their logic.

This depends on the orientation of the case if it's sitting upright on the feet as designed then it might make sense. Typically if you have a monster GPU creating a heat soak environment because you didn't put a water block on it you are better off exhausting off the top. Reversing the back to an intake would help push the hot air away from the CPU from the GPU though too.

There's a bunch of different ways to mitigate the heat soak issues if your case if crammed with cards generating heat.

The most obvious is to go with more mesh than panels. Opening the front end for 360mm of intake makes a big difference. Along the top in some configurations you can open it up to 480mm of intake or exhaust.

Now, if you have liquid cooling / radiators then it makes sense you want those blowing outwards to get rid of the heat being carried by the liquid. Thus those are usually positioned on the front / top and the front might be an intake still even. It might take a few swaps / reversals to figure out the best positioning before settling on something.

I rebuilt my 8700K system several times in several cases before settling into a Node 804. The chambered design splitting the MOBO / storage drives allowed for more tweaking of the airflow. Not adding the drive heat to the MOBO side made a bit of a difference. The node though was an mATX and the ASL is in an ATX so, there's more space to dissipate before being an issue. Plus the ATX case is more mesh than panels.

 

[tinpanalley]

So, you have something like this?

This is literally what my AMD Ryzen 5 3600 looks like.

This depends on the orientation of the case if it's sitting upright on the feet as designed then it might make sense.

The case stands upright. But, from reading your reply, it is clear we have VASTLY different equipment . I have a GPU, a gigabit ethernet card, 2hdd, 2ssd and some optical drives. I have no cooling and just one fan in the front and one in the back (the dead one) which is why I want to get all this sorted as soon as possible.
Here's my system...

 

[Tech Junky]

So, I kind of made a mock up with the info so far of what parts would work. The GPU might make a difference though depending on how much heat it's putting out.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rpGFC6

From the case photo it looks like you have room for all of the fans. Upgrading the CPU cooler will help in keeping the RPM's down in other spots. The GPU depends on how actively you're pushing it with games and such for the fan placement. If you got the upgraded tower 226 in the list and positioned it to blow upward for exhaust then pull air from the front & back it might make more sense and offset a 2nd fan toward the front top since the tower fans would be pushing air out the grated space on top already.

One option might be to block off the storage / ODD area a bit to isolate things and push air in from the front and let it escape through the top of the case to isolate things a bit. Maybe use the side fan for exhausting the drive area and drop to a single front fan.

1 / rear
2 / top
2 / CPU cooler 226

That's your 5 fans from a 5-pack. Side vent add 3 more if you want active cooling vs passive. Might as well pick up 2 x 5-packs ( 120's ) so you have spares on hand or can add them with zip ties if needed. Maybe take the PCI slot covers out and try to force exhaust out he back from the GPU more efficiently.

You're only limited by your imagination to tweak things and come up with better temps / silence.

---------------------
here's what is currently in my system
----------------------

sudo inxi -F
System:
  Host: server Kernel: 5.19.1-051901-generic x86_64 bits: 64 Console: pty pts/10
    Distro: Ubuntu 22.04.1 LTS (Jammy Jellyfish)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: ASRock model: Z690 Steel Legend serial: 
    UEFI: American Megatrends LLC. v: 8.01 date: 06/14/2022
CPU:
  Info: 12-core (8-mt/4-st) model: 12th Gen Intel Core i7-12700K bits: 64 type: MST AMCP cache:
    L2: 12 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 2479 min/max: 800/5000:3800 cores: 1: 793 2: 3600 3: 800 4: 3600 5: 3600
    6: 3600 7: 800 8: 3600 9: 800 10: 3600 11: 800 12: 3600 13: 3600 14: 3600 15: 800 16: 3600
    17: 800 18: 800 19: 3600 20: 3600
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel AlderLake-S GT1 driver: i915 v: kernel
  Display: server: X.org v: 1.21.1.3 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.1 driver: X: loaded: N/A
    unloaded: modesetting gpu: i915 note:  X driver n/a tty: 174x38
  Message: Unable to show GL data. Required tool glxinfo missing.
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel Alder Lake-S HD Audio driver: snd_hda_intel
  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.19.1-051901-generic running: yes
  Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.99.1 running: yes
  Sound Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.48 running: yes
Network:
  Device-1: Intel Alder Lake-S PCH CNVi WiFi driver: iwlwifi
  IF: wlp0s20f3 state: up mac: 06:7e:4e:62:3b:e3
  Device-2: Aquantia AQC111 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] driver: atlantic
  IF: enp5s0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 24:5e:be:4d:c4:53
  Device-3: Aquantia AQC111 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] driver: atlantic
  IF: enp6s0 state: down mac: 24:5e:be:4d:c4:54
  Device-4: Aquantia AQC111 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] driver: atlantic
  IF: enp8s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 06:7e:4e:62:3b:e3
  Device-5: Aquantia AQC111 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] driver: atlantic
  IF: enp9s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 06:7e:4e:62:3b:e3
  Device-6: Realtek RTL8125 2.5GbE driver: r8169
  IF: enp10s0 state: up speed: 2500 Mbps duplex: full mac: a8:a1:59:7a:82:f0
  IF-ID-1: bo0 state: up speed: 2000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 06:7e:4e:62:3b:e3
  IF-ID-2: bonding_masters state: N/A speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
  IF-ID-3: br0 state: up speed: 2500 Mbps duplex: unknown mac: 5a:ea:69:a9:d9:fb
  IF-ID-4: nordlynx state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Intel type: USB driver: btusb
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 state: up address: 60:A5:E2:E8:20:FA
RAID:
  Device-1: md0 type: mdraid level: raid-10 status: active size: 18.19 TiB report: 5/5 UUUUU
  Components: Online: 2: sdd1 3: sdb1 4: sdc1 5: sde1 6: sda1
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: raw: 37.3 TiB usable: 19.1 TiB used: 8.46 TiB (44.3%)
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Western Digital model: WDS100T1X0E-00AFY0 size: 931.51 GiB
  ID-2: /dev/sda vendor: Western Digital model: WD80EZAZ-11TDBA0 size: 7.28 TiB
  ID-3: /dev/sdb vendor: Western Digital model: WD80EZAZ-11TDBA0 size: 7.28 TiB
  ID-4: /dev/sdc vendor: Western Digital model: WD80EZAZ-11TDBA0 size: 7.28 TiB
  ID-5: /dev/sdd vendor: Western Digital model: WD80EZAZ-11TDBA0 size: 7.28 TiB
  ID-6: /dev/sde vendor: Western Digital model: WD80EZAZ-11TDBA0 size: 7.28 TiB
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 915.78 GiB used: 113.25 GiB (12.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2
  ID-2: /boot/efi size: 48.9 MiB used: 8.2 MiB (16.8%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1
Swap:
  Alert: No swap data was found.
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 32.0 C mobo: 35.0 C
  Fan Speeds (RPM): fan-1: 670 fan-2: 791 fan-3: 0 fan-4: 693 fan-5: 0 fan-6: 0 fan-7: 673
Info:
  Processes: 491 Uptime: 55m Memory: 15.38 GiB used: 2.61 GiB (16.9%) Init: systemd runlevel: 5
  Shell: Bash inxi: 3.3.13

 

[tinpanalley]

the upgraded tower 226

What is this? A new case?

Upgrading the CPU cooler

Are CPU coolers an absolute necessity?

The GPU depends on how actively you're pushing it with games and such

The GPU runs for games (mostly Madden, FIFA, other sports games that are nowhere near the memory guzzlers that action FPS games are.

So, just plugging in new fans isn't enough? This really requires a whole redesign of the inside of the tower?

 

[Tech Junky]

So, just plugging in new fans isn't enough? This really requires a whole redesign of the inside of the tower?

Not necessarily. It's just how I would do things if I bought it today from you as configured.

The 226 is the air tower for the CPU off the PCP list / link

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rpGFC6

Coolers make the PC run.. w/o them the CPU overheats and you're throttled w/ loud beeps indicating a heat issue.

GPU - if you're gaming a LOT then it might be helpful to wedge a fan between the PSU / GPU and force some air out the back rather than waiting for it to rise to the top. Cooler GPU makes for happier games.

 

[tinpanalley]

W

Not necessarily. It's just how I would do things if I bought it today from you as configured.

The 226 is the air tower for the CPU off the PCP list / link

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rpGFC6

Coolers make the PC run.. w/o them the CPU overheats and you're throttled w/ loud beeps indicating a heat issue.

GPU - if you're gaming a LOT then it might be helpful to wedge a fan between the PSU / GPU and force some air out the back rather than waiting for it to rise to the top. Cooler GPU makes for happier games.

Why would the top go in and not out? Won't that cause an accumulation of dust with the air pushing down from the top?

 

[Tech Junky]

Dust is heavier than air.... sucking from the bottom would be worse. Studies of dust in PC's show it to be negligible.

https://computerinfobits.com/pc-airflow-optimization/

If you don't have it sitting on the floor / carpeted it shouldn't be much of an issue. I keep mine on a shelf ~3 ft off the ground or on a table at the same height and it's fairly clean after years of running in the old platform and the new build since 10/2021.

If you're OCD though just clean it out every 6 months.

 

[tinpanalley]

Dust is heavier than air.... sucking from the bottom would be worse. Studies of dust in PC's show it to be negligible.

https://computerinfobits.com/pc-airflow-optimization/

If you don't have it sitting on the floor / carpeted it shouldn't be much of an issue. I keep mine on a shelf ~3 ft off the ground or on a table at the same height and it's fairly clean after years of running in the old platform and the new build since 10/2021.

If you're OCD though just clean it out every 6 months.

To be fair, I'm more interested in cool than dust free.

 

[Tech Junky]

Then grab two packs of fans and the air tower and it should keep temps down. A little secret I use is graphite pads instead mucking around with paste. Makes repositioning things easy as you don't have to clean the cooler or CPU.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKVW18G they come in different sizes.

 

[tinpanalley]

Then grab two packs of fans and the air tower and it should keep temps down. A little secret I use is graphite pads instead mucking around with paste. Makes repositioning things easy as you don't have to clean the cooler or CPU.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CKVW18G they come in different sizes.

I think I'm gonna go

1 120mm out the back
2 120mm out the top
1 140mm from the side
2 140mm from the front

(Although I saw a video that said once you get past 2 front in, 1 back and 1 top out you're pretty much at the point of diminishing returns. This is all with a CPU cooler of course.

I just want to learn how to pick a CPU cooler and exactly how to wire up all the fans.

Here's the video. Very interesting tests: