Trying to edumacate myself...

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I, regrettedly, haven't paid a whole lot of attention to foreign policy in the last couple of years. I used to be a lot more active and interested than I am now, but I guess I just haven't followed it. And the attacks recently have woken me up -- I feel a newfound interest in learning about our foreign policy. First of all I think there is definately a reason why we were attacked. Whether Americans agree with that reason or not isn't the issue -- I'm looking for the reason...other than religious fanaticism, what do the Usama Bin Ladens and the Talibans of the world have against the United States?

Someone educate me...and please keep racist flames out of this. Furthermore, if anyone has a good online (or print) news source that gives unbiased information regarding the US, specifically its foreign policy and the Middle East, please post it.

thank you
 

calpha

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2001
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Assama is against the United States b/c we stayed in Saudi Arabia in the Persian Gulf War. That's when he started his "jihad" against us.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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<< , what do the Usama Bin Ladens and the Talibans of the world have against the United States? >>

With all due respect nothing anyone is about to come up with can even remotely justify what happened in NY. Whatever their problems with the US, mass murder of innocents is an atrocity that must be dealth with severely. Trying to get inside the heads of these guys isn't going to help because what they do is not rational.

And it's "edjumicate" not "edumacte", konichiwa. :)
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Nobody is trying to justify what happened. But there are reasons why the perpetrators are angry. That's not to say they are justifiably angry. But they are angry...I think that's what he's trying to find out. There was a great Canadian documentary on this situation replayed two days ago...I'll see if I can dig some info up on it. It was made a while back (maybe a year or two).

edit: Here's the website for the documentary. I'm not sure if they mean it will be replayed in half an hour, but I'll record it if it will be replayed. Come to think of it, I think it was last night that it was on but they're always replaying this stuff late at night...
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
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<< With all due respect nothing anyone is about to come up with can even remotely justify what happened in NY. Whatever their problems with the US, mass murder of innocents is an atrocity that must be dealth with severely. Trying to get inside the heads of these guys isn't going to help because what they do is not rational. >>

As GL said, I'm not trying to justify what they did, nor am I seeking any justification for it. However, no matter how much these people are portrayed as 100% lunatics, there is a motive behind it. There is something that we have done that has angered them ... what is it?
 

GL

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I'll try to paraphrase what the angry people themselves said in their own words (keep in mind this isn't what I believe):

-The U.S. has backed corrupt governments in the Middle East and surrounding area, instead of backing Islamic democracies (which weren't as attractive to the U.S. because the corrupt governments provided for better economics from the U.S. point of view)

-The Gulf War angered them. But what really angered them was when the U.S. didn't leave the area.

-Palestine is an Islamic territory occupied by non-Muslims. As such, a Jihad (Holy War to free an occupied Muslim state) is justifiable. Yet, the U.S. has backed the illegal occupiers.

Those are some of the reasons for their anger. The reasons why some have resorted to violence:

-Past successes in violent conflicts (i.e. Afghanistan/U.S.S.R conflict) have bolstered their confidence and led them to believe that Allah is on their side because they beat a superpower.

-Some of the young men victimized in these conflicts when they lost their parents, have been schooled by the extremists and filled with bigotry.

-They truly believe that it is prophesied (sp?) for them to be successful and that their effort is a growing one (i.e. For every martyr there are three more mujahedeen [I think this means freedom fighters]).
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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<< There is something that we have done that has angered them ... what is it? >>

I guess what I'm saying is that it just doesn't matter. These crazed zealots do not value human life. If they don't value it now they never will regardless of whether or not they are "understood". They only way to deal with them is to put them down.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't try to analyze their tactics...to know one's enemy is a basic step in defeating him. But trying to figure out why they are evil is pointless as they're beyond redemption.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
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<< I guess what I'm saying is that it just doesn't matter. These crazed zealots do not value human life. If they don't value it now they never will regardless of whether or not they are "understood". They only way to deal with them is to put them down. >>

I disagree. If all we do is kill Bin Laden, another Bin Laden will pop up in the rubble of the old one. Whether we have done anything wrong or not (I believe we have; certainly nothing (there is nothing) that deserves what we got, and it is certainly not completely our fault) I think it's important to find out why these people don't like us. And while I agree that they are crazed zealots who don't value human life, there are many arab/muslims who detest the united states and are NOT crazed zealots who do not value human life...
 

FrontlineWarrior

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2000
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I think the reason was two fold.

First, like those big time crooks in movies, they set off an attack to panic the market. They use their knowledge of the situation to make a large profit at the cost of the United States.

Second, they do this because they hate us anyway. I believe the primary motivation was to make a profit on the stock market, and the fact that they hate the US helped too.

Basically, according to my theory, they're just crooks.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
konichiwa,

Remember terrorism is widespread throughout the world. It's not just a matter of "them" hating the US. They've killed innocents in Europe, the UK and in many other countries. Different groups, different tactics, different "reasons" but all unjustifyable. I believe it's time to neutralize all of them. Starting now.



<< there are many arab/muslims who detest the united states >>

If you're asking why these people dislike us, that's a fair question. I thought you were only referring to the zealotrous butchers. GL's summary is pretty good.
 

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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Konichiwa, the main reason for the attack is because of the "killing of Muslims" by the Jews. In past interviews with Bin Laden, he states that the number 1 danger to muslims are Jews, and there is no way in hell Isreal could do anything without our weapons. Therefore, Isreal and America are one and the same in the eyes of Bin Laden and many other people. Some of this has merit, however, in no way does it merit acts of terroism. If you want to get some good, untainted foreign news coverage go to www.worldnews.com .
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,949
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<< First of all I think there is definately a reason why we were attacked. Whether Americans agree with that reason or not isn't the issue -- I'm looking for the reason...other than religious fanaticism, what do the Usama Bin Ladens and the Talibans of the world have against the United States? >>

There IS nothing other than religious fanaticism, THAT is it. Once again, from another thread:

Anyone who is operating under the presumption that the U.S. would be better not to 'provoke' or 'aggravate' these Islamic fundamentalists, and therefore would prevent an 'escalation' of force from hijacked airliners to nukes, does so because they do not understand what Islamic fundamentalism is.

The fanatical Islamic fundamentalists believe western culture, NOT the United States specifically, but western culture is the work of the Great Satan. They believe this devil's work must be destroyed, so that Islamic beliefs can be the dominating world belief system. Why do you think they call it a "Holy War"? They believe they are fighting the Great Satan, good vs. evil.

Islamic fundamentalists target the U.S. because we are the most influencial country promoting our western values to the world. Islamic fundamentalists hate Britain just as much, they are another example of Great Satan's work, but strategically Britain is a small fish compare to the United States, and so they attack the United States first. Rest assured, ANY country who subscribes to western values over Islamic values, is on their list of countries to wage Jihad against.

Even moderate Arab states and muslims are not immune from fanatical fundamentalist attack. They will seek to convert those states into more Taliban ruled Afghanistans [where women are oppressed and brutalized, where women cannot vote, where movies are not allowed, other religions are not tolerated, free speech is not tolerated, and a hundred other ideals of the west they oppose] and yes they will kill moderate Muslims who oppose them them if it comes right down to it. But, if you're Muslim, they will give you the opportunity of conforming to their extremist ways, because a moderate Muslim is still a child of Allah who has just gone astray. No such mercy or forgiveness will be shown to non-Muslims.

This is a war against our very ideals and principles (democracy, human rights, racial and gender equality, civil liberties, religious freedom, free speech, etc.), not retaliation for U.S. support of Israel or involvment in the Middle East. That is a ruse, a diversion, from the true motivation behind this fanatical movement. This is very important to understand, because nothing can save us from this "Holy War", except to kill the ones who wage this "Holy War" before they kill us (or somehow reduce them to some position where they no longer pose a credible threat).
 

xyyz

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
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<< Assama is against the United States b/c we stayed in Saudi Arabia in the Persian Gulf War. That's when he started his "jihad" against us. >>



actually Osama... really doesn't like Saudi to begin with.... he hates the current monarchy in that country... and his citizenship was revoked as a result...

he's just a bitter bastard.