Trying children as adults, how is this not unconstitutional?

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Chiropteran

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2003
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Because there are plenty of actual "juvenile" offenses where kids should be given a bit more leeway than adults. IMO a 15 year old may not be as likely to grasp why something like shoplifting is wrong, and the legal system should deal with them accordingly. For crimes like rape and murder though anyone who's not mentally defective should know that those are unacceptable.

I've heard that argument, not convinced it makes sense though.

The idea is, if you punish the child too harshly you ruin the rest of his life for something fairly mild, like shoplifting. Yeah, I get that. But can't you use the same argument when it comes to adults? 19 year old shoplifts something minor for whatever stupid reason, are we as a society better off by ruining the rest of this guys life?

I can't think of a situation where a more relaxed punishment would make sense for a first offender child but not for a first offender "adult". Adult in quotes because many legal adults lack the maturity you need to really participate in society.

I do not agree that age should fit into the decision, at all.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
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So which is it fucker? When are people an adult? Or are you just talking out of your ass again? Where do you stand on manipulating common law to influence outcome?



I'm all for using Sharia law instead of Jewish law. DEERRRPPP
 

thecrecarc

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2004
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I agree children shouldn't be tried in juvenile court and adult court merely based on arbitrary whims. There shouldn't be a juvenile court, everyone should go through the same system. Let the courts decide the particulars of punishment, reparations, etc. based on each cases' own facts, including age.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
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You seem to think if a 17 year old butchers a bunch of little kids they should be let off with a slap on the wrist. No they should be rotting in jail for the rest of their life.
 
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smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
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Doesn't trying a child as an adult presume he/she is guilty? If they are innocent until proven guilty then a child should be tried as a child and an adult as and adult.

If I had money and power I think I would make it my life's mission to stop children be tried as adults, we need to rehabilitate not incarcerate.

No more or less constitutional than seat belt laws or a pile of other laws that are here to "Protect" us.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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I have always considered it interesting how a DA has no problem trying a 14 year old who holds up a gas station with a gun as a adult. However if that same 14 year old has sex with a 20 year old all of a sudden that 14 year old isn't old enough to understand the consequences of sex and is legally not alloweed to consent? However they are old enough to understand long term consequences of armed robbery. :confused:
 
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BergeLSU

Senior member
Apr 6, 2011
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No more or less constitutional than seat belt laws or a pile of other laws that are here to "Protect" us.

Seatbelt laws do protect you, just not in the most obvious ways.

You are at fault in a wreck. The person you hit wasn't wearing his seatbelt, causing his death. Right now, you are partially responsible, but the victim is also at fault in the law's eyes. Without that, you are now possibly in court for some degree of homocide.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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Well then children should be able to vote if they show they are responsible enough, or drive before they are sixteen, or drink before they are 21. I mean if they can suffer the consequences of an adult crime why not the privileges of an adult?

It could be that society thinks that different things require different degrees of maturity to handle.
For example society might think that it does not take all that much maturity to know that tying down a 4 year old girl and slowly skinning her alive just to see how it would feel is wrong, but it takes a higher maturity level to know that drinking 3 beers is okay but 4 beers is probably going to make you sick.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
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Please point out where in the constitution it would forbid this.

If those images you posted are correct, the 250K number sounds awfully high, but that doesn't mean the practice should be prohibited. The 9x blacks and 4x latinos number is irrelevant without perspective. Do these groups commit a higher % of crimes worthy of trials as adults (can of worms)?

Do you think a 17 year old who commits premeditated murder should be tried as an adult?
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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horrendous crime and murder should be tried as adults. And they should be rushed to the head of the line for the death penalty. Just think of it as a very late term abortion.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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Please point out where in the constitution it would forbid this.

If those images you posted are correct, the 250K number sounds awfully high, but that doesn't mean the practice should be prohibited. The 9x blacks and 4x latinos number is irrelevant without perspective. Do these groups commit a higher % of crimes worthy of trials as adults (can of worms)?

Do you think a 17 year old who commits premeditated murder should be tried as an adult?

Well, according to that infographic, that figure is based on "for the same crime."

But there are so many more variables, aside from the specific crime, race, and how they are tried/punished.
Those variables alone likely account for a good number of the differences.

Say, a white suburban kid does something, but has otherwise displayed acceptable behavior.
Now, a black inner-city kid, who has routinely behaved like a thug, performs the same crime, possibly with a little more zest and/or violence. He'll likely receive a harsher punishment.
Take a white kid, but put it into the same scenario as the above (violent, inner-city, etc), he'll probably receive the same punishment as the black kid of that scenario.
Take a black kid, who lives in suburbia and/or otherwise has never been in trouble with the law, behaves appropriately, and does that same crime with no violence. Depending on geography, he MAY be subjected to racial distinctions, but most likely he'll receive a lesser punishment (like the white suburban kid).

There are so many variables that a blanket infographic statement like that will completely ignore, either because the author ignored it, or didn't have access to the specifics of each case. Each case, whether a youth is tried as adult or as a minor, is determined based upon the specifics of said case and said individual youth. Could there be some racism? It's always possible, but most likely the specifics that played a role are not accounted for.
 

MaxPayne63

Senior member
Dec 19, 2011
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I would imagine that a young feral human would need less sodium thiopental than an older one. Best to take care of some problems early.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
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I would imagine that a young feral human would need less sodium thiopental than an older one. Best to take care of some problems early.

I recognized that as one of the drugs used in lethal injections.

But that also started a wiki trail immediately, and I wound up on Inert gas asphyxiation.

We seriously need to start doing this. While the drugs themselves aren't that expensive when compared to the paperwork and legal hoops involved with lethal injection, it sounds like it would at least help bring down the cost of the death penalty. And at any rate, it would be even more humane than the injections.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
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Seatbelt laws do protect you, just not in the most obvious ways.

You are at fault in a wreck. The person you hit wasn't wearing his seatbelt, causing his death. Right now, you are partially responsible, but the victim is also at fault in the law's eyes. Without that, you are now possibly in court for some degree of homocide.

That's just silly. By that line of thinking, shouldn't we just allow only 1 car on the road at a time to keep me from killing someone else.

The seat belt laws were put in place due to extremely heavy lobbying on the part of the insurance industry and preying on people's fear.

Don't get me wrong, it's smart to wear a seat belt, but do we really need legislation? It really blurs the lines of how much protection we need from ourselves.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
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It could be that society thinks that different things require different degrees of maturity to handle.
For example society might think that it does not take all that much maturity to know that tying down a 4 year old girl and slowly skinning her alive just to see how it would feel is wrong, but it takes a higher maturity level to know that drinking 3 beers is okay but 4 beers is probably going to make you sick.

So we shouldn't allow anyone to invest in a 401k or the stock market before they are 30, either, then.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
11,288
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I think the phrase is kind of misleading. There isn't really a difference in the trial itself. The difference comes in the sentencing, which happens after a decision of guilt/innocence takes place.