Trumps tweeted "WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF" and i cant believe I agree with him

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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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It’s both, and a capacity problem as well. Humans have placed dogmatic faith in government and science to protect us from a world that will evolve new ways to kill us.

This is a global pandemic. The underlying virus spreads quickly, carriers don’t know that they have it and its just lethal enough to be concerning to high risk demographics but defiantly ignored by low risk demographics.

Getting in front of this thing assumed a huge war stock of medical supplies, reserve medical staff, testing capability and hospital bed overflow. This is why the military has the reserves.

It stopped being solely a medical issue the moment it broke out of China. So long as people are going to beaches and gatherings or making Target runs, its going to spread.

We either shut it all down for a few weeks or we let it burn through the population. These half measures will only delay the inevitable and increase the financial impact.
You may as well call it a political problem.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
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You do realize that subsequently economic problems can result in health problems, right? Ask Venezuela how their health is going right now. Want to join in on the Maduro diet?

What exactly do you think will happen with 30% unemployment?

The point simply being is that there is a fine balance to be had here. No, don't do stupid shit from a virus' spreading perspective - but also don't do stupid shit from an economic perspective.
It's still a MEDICAL problem. What is the "fine balance" between the incompetence of Trump and a global pandemic? Do you think the U.S. economy is based on what we produce within our borders? Of course economic/political problems will exacerbate the medical problems we're having! The meta mentality of this country will cause more problems than the pandemic. You don't fight symptoms, you fight disease.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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It's still a MEDICAL problem. What is the "fine balance" between the incompetence of Trump and a global pandemic? Do you think the U.S. economy is based on what we produce within our borders? Of course economic/political problems will exacerbate the medical problems we're having! The meta mentality of this country will cause more problems than the pandemic. You don't fight symptoms, you fight disease.

I'm not sure if people understand how closely related the economic problems are to the medical ones. You can reopen all the bars and restaurants you want but when people going to them start coming down with mass infections of a deadly disease what you're really going to end up with is empty bars and restaurants anyway, along with a lot more sick and dead people.

So what's the answer? Well, loosen restrictions where infection rates aren't serious and get people back to work there. That's ALSO a medical problem though because due to governmental incompetence we still don't have effective testing in place so we can't know where those places are with any reliability!
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
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I'm not sure if people understand how closely related the economic problems are to the medical ones. You can reopen all the bars and restaurants you want but when people going to them start coming down with mass infections of a deadly disease what you're really going to end up with is empty bars and restaurants anyway, along with a lot more sick and dead people.

So what's the answer? Well, loosen restrictions where infection rates aren't serious and get people back to work there. That's ALSO a medical problem though because due to governmental incompetence we still don't have effective testing in place so we can't know where those places are with any reliability!

Exactly. Also, as these numbers escalate and more people get sick/die I'm not going to feel safe going to a bar, restaurant, fly in an airplane, etc. Also, like you said we don't have effective testing in place yet. We could easily surpass Italy in the number of sick, dead people. What is Trump going to say then? He only cares about his poll numbers. He wants to go on rallies to inflate his ego, and only cares about himself. That is our POTUS.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Competent government would have made a dramatic difference. Instead, we have Trump and co.
Competent governments are struggling to dramatically change the outcome. You have a few pockets of success, primarily in countries that got a pandemic preview in recent year and had protocols in place, and even those are straining.

This is a global pandemic for which the global response is lacking direction.

I understand the desire to blame it all on Trump, but that desire lacks perspective.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
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Competent governments are struggling to dramatically change the outcome. You have a few pockets of success, primarily in countries that got a pandemic preview in recent year and had protocols in place, and even those are straining.

This is a global pandemic for which the global response is lacking direction.

I understand the desire to blame it all on Trump, but that desire lacks perspective.

Or maybe those governments were incompetent as well.

It is simply baffling to me how you can be faced with incontrovertible evidence of effective government responses elsewhere in the world, look at our calamitous response, and then say 'well, what could they really do anyway?' You need to take a step back and gain some perspective yourself. There is massive, overwhelming evidence of a totally incompetent response on the part of the US government. Other incompetent responses elsewhere do not excuse this.

Focus on the US and how it compares to an effectively responding country. Pointing out other incompetents is meaningless.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
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That's ALSO a medical problem though because due to governmental incompetence we still don't have effective testing in place so we can't know where those places are with any reliability!
The logical thing to do is to establish strict shelter in place until testing kits are ubiquitously available, then take it from there. Otherwise the shitshow exacerbates.

Now, really think about this statement:

"we-cannot-let-the-cure-be-worse-than-the-problem-itself"

It's insane. The cure by definition is superior to the problem. I rest my case.

Edit: I take the floor again. The thread title is just as insane if not more so. Anyone who would agree with Trump's (Steve Hilton's!) statement is foolish. We have a difficult multi-faceted situation here. Put a plumber in charge of a nuclear power plant and ask him to stop a developing melt-down is asking for a disaster.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Or maybe those governments were incompetent as well.

It is simply baffling to me how you can be faced with incontrovertible evidence of effective government responses elsewhere in the world, look at our calamitous response, and then say 'well, what could they really do anyway?' You need to take a step back and gain some perspective yourself. There is massive, overwhelming evidence of a totally incompetent response on the part of the US government. Other incompetent responses elsewhere do not excuse this.

Focus on the US and how it compares to an effectively responding country. Pointing out other incompetents is meaningless.
Those effective government responses are barely plural in terms of which countries are succeeding, and South Korea is perhaps the only approach that could conceivably work in western society.

Yet even if those incontrovertibly successful nations were to open their borders or lift restrictions, it would resume, and any population will eventually strain under perpetual quarantine.

Focusing on the US tells me we were inadequately prepared to deal with a global pandemic, as was the case for most of the world. Focusing on the US also tells me we have a selfish and coddled population that is incapable of following the most basic of shelter in place guidelines.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,879
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Those effective government responses are barely plural in terms of which countries are succeeding, and South Korea is perhaps the only approach that could conceivably work in western society.

Both South Korea and Japan have been effective to mention two. I'm glad you're admitting that competent government responses exist though and we failed to follow them. ie: our response was incompetent.

Yet even if those incontrovertibly successful nations were to open their borders or lift restrictions, it would resume, and any population will eventually strain under perpetual quarantine.

This fundamentally misunderstands what they are doing. You implement restrictions to get the growth of infections back down to a place where contact tracing is a feasible thing again. Once you do that you can ease restrictions with a reasonable degree of confidence that you can re-implement them around areas of infection without locking everyone down again.

I mean what did you think they were doing, locking down their population for the next few years or something? This has always been their stated goal.

Focusing on the US tells me we were inadequately prepared to deal with a global pandemic, as was the case for most of the world. Focusing on the US also tells me we have a selfish and coddled population that is incapable of following the most basic of shelter in place guidelines.

Those guidelines were only put into place LONG after our government, principally our federal government, massively failed. The US had months to prepare a robust testing and contact tracing regime and not only did nothing, they actively downplayed it and spread misinformation.

As for focusing on the US it's because the US is my government and we all have a right to a competent government. I have no interest in carrying water for them or excusing their failures.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,644
50,879
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Speaking of competence it now appears that the US infection rate is going up at the worst rate in the entire world:


So the richest and most powerful country on Earth, one that benefits by significant natural isolation allowing us to more effectively track and control potential contagion, is dead last.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,095
37,305
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Modi is shutting down India for three weeks, 1.3B people to told to stay home. This is on the heels of Boris closing the U.K. similarly. All Trump’s happy talk is going to evaporate soon as the US outbreak dramatically escalates. There is little he can do anyway as it’s governors, mayors, and companies doing the shutting down. CA and NY already said no way.

Close it all down till at least July and pay everybody most of their income to sit tight. Loan companies cash to pay fixed costs at 0% and eventually forgive most of it. Only reopen when it’s ramped down and you can rapidly test, track, give people masks, and hopefully have a drug therapy in hand that can manage severe cases.
 

R0H1T

Platinum Member
Jan 12, 2013
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Isn't he hinting at opening up the country soon or whatever BS he usually claims?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,117
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Modi is shutting down India for three weeks, 1.3B people to told to stay home. This is on the heels of Boris closing the U.K. similarly. All Trump’s happy talk is going to evaporate soon as the US outbreak dramatically escalates. There is little he can do anyway as it’s governors, mayors, and companies doing the shutting down. CA and NY already said no way.

Close it all down till at least July and pay everybody most of their income to sit tight. Loan companies cash to pay fixed costs at 0% and eventually forgive most of it. Only reopen when it’s ramped down and you can rapidly test, track, give people masks, and hopefully have a drug therapy in hand that can manage severe cases.

All these other leaders doing lockdowns maybe the thing that keeps the federal government from trying to send us back to work. Once everyone else is doing it they can claim they did it first and the word is following our lead.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,961
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Actually there are many red states with rural regions will $1000 will cover a month's rent. Still not really your point but ...
Well I guess that most of the people that live in single wide trailers are trumpers. Pandering to his base
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,961
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Update:
President Donald Trump said Monday that he wants to reopen the country for business in weeks, not months.
Trump acknowledged there were trade-offs
Trump views the stock market as his popularity rating... and like the 0.01%'ers he answers to, the lives of the other 99.99% are irrelevant.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,120
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Isn't he hinting at opening up the country soon or whatever BS he usually claims?

He also claimed he'd build a wall and share his tax returns.

If Trump does ease restrictions, I think more and more states will take it upon themselves to keep restrictions in place to protect their own populations.
Plenty of states are already doing so, even if they aren't blowing up with cases just yet (MD, PA). Trump may be a moron, but not all 50 state governors are.
I can tell you (anecdotally) that Larry Hogan enjoys a lot of support among my otherwise young, liberal, and vehemently anti-trump Facebook friends.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Competent governments are struggling to dramatically change the outcome. You have a few pockets of success, primarily in countries that got a pandemic preview in recent year and had protocols in place, and even those are straining.

This is a global pandemic for which the global response is lacking direction.

I understand the desire to blame it all on Trump, but that desire lacks perspective.
We had a team in place in the White House who's job was to do that very thing.

To absolve the guy who wanted to nuke a hurricane to stop it seems laughable.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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Jesus Christ we are soft.

Barely one week in into quarantine in even the hardest struck areas we already bitching out.

WWII generation is ashamed
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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So the richest and most powerful country on Earth, one that benefits by significant natural isolation allowing us to more effectively track and control potential contagion, is dead last.

If only we had listened to Dear Leader and built the wall. -FoxNews headline tonight.
 
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