Trump wants a 20% tariff on Mexico to pay for the Wall

[zinfamous]

And we (country) let him go through an entire year and a half campaign cycle without having to explain himself on the issues.
Oh look, a tweet! This country (almost) deserves what it gets for stooping the election process so low.

No, no we didn't. A rather small minority of people (which strangely mattered) allowed him to do that. But yeah, I agree that it isn't that simple. He was called out innumerable times for his nonsense proposals, but none of that got through the wall of dedicated ignorance that shrouds the type of people that support this guy.

I honestly don't know what to do, when you are trying to penetrate a fortified anti-fact, dishonest, conspiracy-based community that has been thoroughly primed to interpret any honest and fair challenge to core belief as evidence and grand conspiracy against that belief, and thus is illegitimate. How do you reach such people? Because, even when Trump fails tremendously, it will not be a reflection of their value system, it will be outsiders that wanted him to fail and succeeded in doing so.

Thing is, this really isn't new, but like the anti-vaccine types, these people tend to thrive when they are totally removed from the generation(s) that experienced and learned from the challenges and horrors that resulted in the new paradigms (plagues of smallpox and influenza --> vaccination; rise of fascism--(but during real economic depression)--WW2, UN, globalism, NATO, open borders, trade, EU, etc).

The institutions that were created to preserve peace, expand economic movement and freedom, empower the middle classes of the world, etc, and are still extremely necessary to do so, are under threat because today's snowflakes see the approach of inevitable egalitarianism as some sort of existential threat to their own preserved freedoms. Grab this fear, explain it to such people through the lens of some intangible enemy: "liberals of the world, scary religions, freedom-haters," and without any experience of real strife within their lifetimes of comfortable suburban depression, such people will believe that they are under attack. That their world is disappearing. Capture those small minds and give them the enemy that they have longed for. The enemy doesn't have to exist, but they desperately need one to explain away the comfortable misery of their relatively boring life of bed-to-cubicle-to-home existence, and so elect the strong man to lead them, and to crush this enemy!

 

[momeNt]

A 20% tariff for absolutely NO reason is your definition of adding to your freedom?

Tariffs as a percentage of federal revenues

 

[agent00f]

Good, the Trump voters won't have to blame liberals, they can blame Russian Psy-Ops instead and your victim card goes away with it.

I didn't vote for Trump so these Russian Psy-Ops didn't have any effect on me. Unlike those who chose not to get out and vote for Clinton I did vote, just not for Trump or Clinton. I find it funny that liberals are so ate up from the loss and now fantasizing about Trump voters blaming them.

It's really hilarious how much you have to play up the slightest perceived offense to divert from what your leader is doing daily. I imagine when he starts to round up muslims or whatever you'll still be working these trite u-mad-bro trolls and pretending he's not your own.

 

[Sonikku]

Trump voters are still blaming everybody else for their conduct. Time to move on Trump voters, he won -- because of you. He's a pile of dog crap and he's your pile of dog crap. You get to carry him around in a brown paper bag tied about your necks for the duration of his time in the White House as a reminder of your action.

I wish we could see some personal responsibility for their choice, but expecting that from them is a hard sell.

 

[zinfamous]

I'm just praying he delivers on his 2nd amendment promise. If we can get back our foundation of being American, the rest will work itself out, and maybe after Trump the next liberal President to follow won't have such a hard-on on taking away my freedoms.

Well, you should seek comfort in the fact that the 2nd amendment has never been under threat and never will. All the blustering from the rubes over dems doing this and that is just fodder for the gun lobby that, quite truthfully, loves nothing more than Dems in power, jacking up profits off the backs of the easily terrified and uninformed.

 

[greatnoob]

Tariffs as a percentage of federal revenues

You didn't answer my question. You think a tariff which limits consumer choice and will actually have a negative impact on your economy and the average American is okay, but to you (supposedly) duh librulz are the ones taking away your freedom. Tariffs are taking away your freedom

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Tariffs as a percentage of federal revenues

If you like charts here's one for what happened the last time.

Yay freedom!

 

[greatnoob]

I wish we could see some personal responsibility for their choice, but expecting that from them is a hard sell.

So far:

"It's because you didn't vote for Trump that Trump won"
"I didn't vote for him, it was probably the liberals"
"Blame the Russians"

Let's see how they fare in the 2020 Olympics @ Mental Gymnastics

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, you should seek comfort in the fact that the 2nd amendment has never been under threat and never will. All the blustering from the rubes over dems doing this and that is just fodder for the gun lobby that, quite truthfully, loves nothing more than Dems in power, jacking up profits off the backs of the easily terrified and uninformed.

The Second isn't of itself threatened, but that's not needed. Just put manufacturers out of business and make firearms too expensive except for Hillary and Trump and their ilk.

Would you like a 10 million dollar beater car? Hey it's not like we took away your license.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well, you should seek comfort in the fact that the 2nd amendment has never been under threat and never will. All the blustering from the rubes over dems doing this and that is just fodder for the gun lobby that, quite truthfully, loves nothing more than Dems in power, jacking up profits off the backs of the easily terrified and uninformed.

yea, I mean, how many times have we heard the old tripe trotted out "Obama is going to take our guns away" or something similar. Never, ever, ever even came close to happening. Even after Sandy Hook, nothing happened.
But it did get the base riled up good and proper.

 

[momeNt]

Well, you should seek comfort in the fact that the 2nd amendment has never been under threat and never will. All the blustering from the rubes over dems doing this and that is just fodder for the gun lobby that, quite truthfully, loves nothing more than Dems in power, jacking up profits off the backs of the easily terrified and uninformed.

Demonstrably false. Tons of gun control legislature out there starting with the NFA of 1934. A national tragedy.

You didn't answer my question. You think a tariff which limits consumer choice and will actually have a negative impact on your economy and the average American is okay, but to you (supposedly) duh librulz are the ones taking away your freedom. Tariffs are taking away your freedom

Tariffs and excise taxes are part of the express authority of the federal government since the beginning of our constitution. Not losing any freedom. Consumerism has worked wonders on our mind and our addiction to "stuff" is definitely troubling that we relate a having a wide variety of goods to purchase as freedom.

If you like charts here's one for what happened the last time.

Yay freedom!

Yes and in response they tried bilateral trade agreements and THAT didn't work. So I mean, the depression persisted despite tariffs and despite bilateral trade agreements. BUUUUUT let's blame tariffs okay? Excellent analysis.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Demonstrably false. Tons of gun control legislature out there starting with the NFA of 1934. A national tragedy.

Tariffs and excise taxes are part of the express authority of the federal government since the beginning of our constitution. Not losing any freedom. Consumerism has worked wonders on our mind and our addiction to "stuff" is definitely troubling that we relate a having a wide variety of goods to purchase as freedom.



Yes and in response they tried bilateral trade agreements and THAT didn't work. So I mean, the depression persisted despite tariffs and despite bilateral trade agreements. BUUUUUT let's blame tariffs okay? Excellent analysis.

And what exactly is Trump proposing today if not tariffs and bilateral trade agreements?

 

[desura]

Wouldnt that be a win-win for Trump?

I'm kind of hoping that Putin has a video of Trump in diapers going down on a blonde 14 year old boy. And there is some argument that they run into and Putin is like fuck it, I'm going to release the video of Trump blowing a blonde 14 year old boy.

 

[fskimospy]

Demonstrably false. Tons of gun control legislature out there starting with the NFA of 1934. A national tragedy.

Tariffs and excise taxes are part of the express authority of the federal government since the beginning of our constitution. Not losing any freedom. Consumerism has worked wonders on our mind and our addiction to "stuff" is definitely troubling that we relate a having a wide variety of goods to purchase as freedom.

You're going to have to explain this one to me? I think we both accept that the federal government has the right to regulate the sale and use of firearms as no part of the bill of rights grants unlimited freedoms in that respect, correct? If that's true, then the government is simply exercising its powers under the constitution in the same way it is exercising its powers under the constitution with tariffs. In both cases you are losing freedom. With gun control legislation you can't necessarily buy whatever gun you want and with tariffs you can't necessarily buy the products you want.

 

[K1052]

And what exactly is Trump proposing today if not tariffs and bilateral trade agreements?

That he's going to win at them better than anybody in history and that we have to take that on faith.

If he melts the economy down he'll simply slink away to his billions and leave the rest of us to pick up the tab, as usual.

 

[greatnoob]

Tariffs and excise taxes are part of the express authority of the federal government since the beginning of our constitution. Not losing any freedom. Consumerism has worked wonders on our mind and our addiction to "stuff" is definitely troubling that we relate a having a wide variety of goods to purchase as freedom.

LOL. Using Trump's protectionist mentality when free trade is done and gone for and when autarky and austerity are the two economic means of living (coincidentally just like Nazi Germany!) you'll be proudly exclaiming, "Hey, we're literally North Korea right now but trust me I still have my freedom!"

 

[desura]

People treat guns like religious fetish objects. I've fired guns. It was okay. Nothing spectacular. Kind of annoying after firing dozens because of all the vibration. I'd rather have a laptop than a gun.

 

[sdifox]

The Second isn't of itself threatened, but that's not needed. Just put manufacturers out of business and make firearms too expensive except for Hillary and Trump and their ilk.

Would you like a 10 million dollar beater car? Hey it's not like we took away your license.

Americans are so poor. They only have 1.12 guns per capita :awe:

 

[momeNt]

You're going to have to explain this one to me? I think we both accept that the federal government has the right to regulate the sale and use of firearms as no part of the bill of rights grants unlimited freedoms in that respect, correct? If that's true, then the government is simply exercising its powers under the constitution in the same way it is exercising its powers under the constitution with tariffs. In both cases you are losing freedom. With gun control legislation you can't necessarily buy whatever gun you want and with tariffs you can't necessarily buy the products you want.

I'm just going to go with shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment protects against the commerce clause similarly to how the 1st amendment is protected against it. At least that is my opinion, I know that the courts have thought otherwise.

Hopefully whatever tariffs he enacts are considered carefully and have the right amount of offsetting stateside industry investment to result in a positive overall impact on America.

 

[agent00f]

To put this possible measure into perspective, it literally comes from Trump pandering to rust belt supporters and such who've largely never even seen an illegal except on tv.

So this is how important national policy is made now, not from any sort of relevant expertise but the exact opposite involving the absolutely lowest common denominator. In hindsight the founder's idea for a republic to avoid exactly this appears destined to fail.

 

[greatnoob]

Hopefully whatever tariffs he enacts are considered carefully and have the right amount of offsetting stateside industry investment to result in a positive overall impact on America.

That 20% tariff was pulled out of his ass with no economic analysis and that was because - like the man-child he is - Mexico's president wouldn't comply with his outrageous demand. Hoping won't change anything.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm just going to go with shall not be infringed.

The 2nd amendment protects against the commerce clause similarly to how the 1st amendment is protected against it. At least that is my opinion, I know that the courts have thought otherwise.

Right, but presumably you don't think Congress can make no law to limit freedom of speech, right? Can you incite a riot without punishment? Can you give classified information to the enemy in a time of war without punishment? etc. If so, I'm really struggling to see how gun laws restrict your freedom but tariffs do not. Both are government action limiting your freedom of choice.

Hopefully whatever tariffs he enacts are considered carefully and have the right amount of offsetting stateside industry investment to result in a positive overall impact on America.

I'm not sure how that's going to happen as the economics on trade barriers is pretty clear: they make both parties poorer in the long term. The right tariff is no tariff but unfortunately our good friend Donald doesn't seem to have a strong (or really, any) grasp of economics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Americans are so poor. They only have 1.12 guns per capita :awe:

How many cars do we have? Put the manufacturers out of business by lawsuits of people for auto injuries. In the meantime we could legislate increases in costs. Oh you can have a car, but only from the diminishing supplies and legally inflated costs. Guess what? You can't have one in any real world scenario.

You really avoided my points entirely. You could get a full dinner for a quarter once too. Try that now.

 

[desura]

I get why people are mad at Mexican competition, but there is nothing criminal about outcompeting someone via hard work. And Mexican crime IMO is not really out of bounds when you consider their poverty rates. I have the suspicion in fact that many GOP elites in the Bush era cozied up to Mexican immigration as an escape from having to deal with black grievances.

White privilege is an expectation I think that is unrealistic. The real world of work looks more like Mexico and much less than say the founding father's mansions (which were powered by impoverished black slaves).

 

[repoman0]

People treat guns like religious fetish objects. I've fired guns. It was okay. Nothing spectacular. Kind of annoying after firing dozens because of all the vibration. I'd rather have a laptop than a gun.

Agreed. I've even fired an automatic AR-15, and while cool for about 10 minutes, is nothing spectacular. Maybe gun freaks like it because it's a relatively simple skill to hone without a ton of real concentrated effort.

Give me my piano, some books, a nice hiking trail, hell anything so I can actually improve myself rather than feel like a big bad killer tough guy.