Trump Trade Tariffs

[piasabird]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-makes-first-big-trade-221839872.html

Trump Makes First Big Trade Move With Tariffs Aimed at Asia
Andrew Mayeda 2 hours 24 minutes ago

The solar tariffs are lower than the 35 percent the U.S. International Trade Commission recommended in October after finding that imported panels were harming American manufacturers. The ITC was responding to a complaint by Suniva Inc., a bankrupt U.S. panel maker that sought duties on solar cells and panels.

In the washing machine case, Trump was responding to an ITC recommendation in November of tariffs following a complaint by Whirlpool Corp., which accused Samsung Electronics Co. and LG Electronics Inc. of selling washing machines in the U.S. below fair-market value.

I dont always agree with trade tariffs. Samsung products are not exactly cheap anyway, but the claim is they are selling their washing machines below cost.

Then of course is the case with the solar panels.

 

[TheVrolok]

Well, I've made a fair bit of unrealized gains in the last 14 hours due to the tariffs. I'm trying just to feel positive now..

 

[fskimospy]

These probably won’t hold up under WTO rules so we will either be backing down on them or will end up being subject to significant retaliatory tariffs. Sigh.

 

[K1052]

Looks like we might get that trade war after all.

 

[zinfamous]

Looks like we might get that trade war after all.

I love the smell of trade wars in the morning.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don’t think Trump is too far off base with this move, fine so some prices increase to be closer to their true price and cheaply made Chinese shit becomes more expensive

 

[Commodus]

I really hope the WTO slaps this down, particularly the solar panel tariff. That seems less about protecting US panel makers and more an excuse for an administration desperate to prop up a dying fossil fuel industry -- about 80 percent of solar efforts here depend on foreign panels, so it's not like they can switch overnight.

 

[K1052]

I don’t think Trump is too far off base with this move, fine so some prices increase to be closer to their true price and cheaply made Chinese shit becomes more expensive

The people on the other side of this have levers too.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The people on the other side of this have levers too.

I know, we import more so I think we have better leverage.
We’ll see

 

[fskimospy]

I know, we import more so I think we have better leverage.
We’ll see

This is very likely a WTO violation so unless we are withdrawing from that these tariffs are probably going to be overturned and we will have to pay penalties to China.

Trump is trying to start trade wars because he has an 1800’s idea of how economics work.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is very likely a WTO violation so unless we are withdrawing from that these tariffs are probably going to be overturned and we will have to pay penalties to China.

Trump is trying to start trade wars because he has an 1800’s idea of how economics work.

Look on the bright side. By pricing solar higher we can bolster the fossil fuel sector. Sarcasm? You be the judge!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This is very likely a WTO violation so unless we are withdrawing from that these tariffs are probably going to be overturned and we will have to pay penalties to China.

Trump is trying to start trade wars because he has an 1800’s idea of how economics work.

Could be we’ll see, could be a moment where we finally say “we will not tolerate shitty behavior” who knows it will have to play out.

 

[K1052]

Could be we’ll see, could be a moment where we finally say “we will not tolerate shitty behavior” who knows it will have to play out.

Low panel prices benefit us more than it hurts. A few thousand (maybe) production jobs versus tens of thousands of installation jobs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Look on the bright side. By pricing solar higher we can bolster the fossil fuel sector. Sarcasm? You be the judge!

FYGM, German panels. US panels were priced too high for their rated output. Chinese panels were stupid cheap but had a shorter lifespan (I think) regardless we avoid Chinese made shit in my household whenever possible.

 

[fskimospy]

Could be we’ll see, could be a moment where we finally say “we will not tolerate shitty behavior” who knows it will have to play out.

That’s the thing though, our behavior is the shitty behavior here. WTO rules are neutral, if we think China is illegally subsidizing their solar panels we have dispute recourse that we could use. Instead, we are slapping dubious and likely illegal tariffs on foreign goods in violation of our agreements.

If you’re against shitty trade behavior you should be rooting for the US to lose this.

 

[Bowfinger]

That’s the thing though, our behavior is the shitty behavior here. WTO rules are neutral, if we think China is illegally subsidizing their solar panels we have dispute recourse that we could use. Instead, we are slapping dubious and likely illegal tariffs on foreign goods in violation of our agreements.

If you’re against shitty trade behavior you should be rooting for the US to lose this.

I doubt Trump cares. IMO, this is just another PR move. Trump's base will eat it up without the faintest notion of its actual impact.

 

[sandorski]

That’s the thing though, our behavior is the shitty behavior here. WTO rules are neutral, if we think China is illegally subsidizing their solar panels we have dispute recourse that we could use. Instead, we are slapping dubious and likely illegal tariffs on foreign goods in violation of our agreements.

If you’re against shitty trade behavior you should be rooting for the US to lose this.

The World is Washington's political football. Want to impress the Voters, bomb someone, slap a Tarrif on someone, simply ignore International conventions/rules/laws at whim.

 

[fskimospy]

I doubt Trump cares. IMO, this is just another PR move. Trump's base will eat it up without the faintest notion of its actual impact.

Whether he cares or not aside this does appear to be how he thinks the world works as he’s talked about tariffs and trade in an 189th century mercantilist sense for his whole life.

Just another case of him being so incompetent he doesn’t know that he’s incompetent.

 

[child of wonder]

First Obama subsidizes solar panels now Trump enacts artificial penalties on them???

Why can't the government get the fuck out of the way and let the free market decide?

 

[fskimospy]

First Obama subsidizes solar panels now Trump enacts artificial penalties on them???

Why can't the government get the fuck out of the way and let the free market decide?

Subsidies for solar panels and/or tax penalties on fossil fuels made sense though as the fossil fuel industry has enjoyed decades of what amounts to subsidies by being able to emit carbon pollution without paying for it.

If you really want the free market to decide that means making fossil fuels pay the full cost through taxation or subsidizing clean power generation.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

First Obama subsidizes solar panels now Trump enacts artificial penalties on them???

Why can't the government get the fuck out of the way and let the free market decide?

There is not and has never been our lifetime a free market. Government getting out of the way means a Love Canal near you. It means company stores and a host of horrors. Imperfect? Of course, but a free market is like free love. Find out just how inexpensive that last is.

 

[UNCjigga]

I really hope the WTO slaps this down, particularly the solar panel tariff. That seems less about protecting US panel makers and more an excuse for an administration desperate to prop up a dying fossil fuel industry -- about 80 percent of solar efforts here depend on foreign panels, so it's not like they can switch overnight.

Bingo. This has nothing to do with protecting American workers. Very few solar jobs in manufacturing in this country, something like 80% of solar jobs are in installation and maintenance. So this tariff will hurt all the installers, who primarily sell Chinese panels, and will drive up costs of solar to the point where local governments, municipalities and utilities can no longer offer incentives or subsidies due to higher costs.

 

[K1052]

Bingo. This has nothing to do with protecting American workers. Very few solar jobs in manufacturing in this country, something like 80% of solar jobs are in installation and maintenance. So this tariff will hurt all the installers, who primarily sell Chinese panels, and will drive up costs of solar to the point where local governments, municipalities and utilities can no longer offer incentives or subsidies due to higher costs.

Most of the analysis I've seen indicates total impact of a few percentage points in increased cost for utility scale projects. Those aren't going be slowed down by this at all.

Small commercial and home projects will take the hurt and employ the most people.

 

[dainthomas]

I'm sure this will bring all those coal jobs right back. So much winning.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm surprised that Trump hasn't come up with a save the steam locomotive campaign yet.