Trump Signs Orders Cracking Down on Federal Workers' Unions

[cytg111]

Government workers already have a union. So no.

He is making them pay their own way however.

These two statements does not compute. Mutual exclusive. In the land of logic.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Crypto... crypto.... artificial int... artificial int

AI-enforced Blockchained Labor Unions. *sigh* Even the unions are getting automated.

 

[Greenman]

These two statements does not compute. Mutual exclusive. In the land of logic.

Don't know what logic land you're living in, but the concept that a union should pay it's own bills is pretty a universal idea in mine.
You're arguing this because it was Trump, and it's impossible for Trump to do anything right.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Three executive orders. In summary they:

Reduce the time it takes to fire an employee that doesn’t demonstrate improvement under a corrective action plan.

Ask unions to pay for rented space in federal buildings.

Stops compensating union representatives for the cost of lobbying the government on their own behalf

Doesn’t permit salaried employees to perform union business while on the clock for more than 25% of their time

These do not seem to be unreasonable

The only aspect of the order worth debating is the more aggressive policy in negotiating union contracts

 

[Caminetto]

Public sector is exactly where you need a union, and I speak as a college educated management person who spent a few years as a government employee.
Government is run by politicians, their appointees and the appointee's cronies. Generally, public employees (unlike the majority of us) are not able to simply go to the boss and ask for a raise and are at the mercy of the politicians to legislate money for them. And the very first place a politician looks for spending cuts is in the salary of government employees.
I saw numerous people leave the public sector for monetary reasons and sell their expertise to the private sector for double the money. Government was getting a bargain but these politicians couldn't keep from screwing the good people who worked for it.

 

[UglyCasanova]

And the very first place a politician looks for spending cuts

 

[Moonbeam]

It sounds perfectly logical to me. I'm sure someone will be along to tell me why I'm crazy/stupid/uninformed shortly.

I notice that throughout the thread attempts were made to do just that with the result, I think I am seeing, that you have become even more certain the orders are logically sound. I would suggest you simple forget for a second the logic of these union reforms and focus on how you came to associate uninformed in with crazy and stupid. Why do you feel that if you lack a deep, comprehensive and perspicacious understanding of something it also implies you are crazy or stupid. How many subjects are there in the world. How many people spend lifetimes acquiring knowledge in a single area. How could you possibly be as informed as some people on any subject if you are not at least a world authority in at least one.

That one is uninformed, wouldn’t that pretty much be the general condition of everybody on earth. Wouldn’t it have to be that you are perhaps crazily and stupidly adjusted to reality itself, to think being told you lack information is something you could be properly insulted for. Why aren’t you the first person in line who knows how uninformed you are. You have admitted as much lately in some of your posts.

Try to notice that in the various positions you take on the various subjects we discuss on this forum, you always begin with whatever preconceived notions you have acquired in the course of life’s inevitable conditioning unamended by the acquisition of expertise.

I would like to be able to give you an expert analysis of the union issue dealt with here, but it’s an area where I lack such information, so I offered you something else instead. I am pretty good at knowing I know nothing and while I am fully aware that opens me to the charge that I am crazy and stupid, I am so good at knowing I don’t know anything, I also reject that as a fact about my condition. And the club of the ultimately uninformed is always open. All you need to do is see it.

 

[cytg111]

Don't know what logic land you're living in, but the concept that a union should pay it's own bills is pretty a universal idea in mine.
You're arguing this because it was Trump, and it's impossible for Trump to do anything right.

You loose your way in the details.
Those terms and benefits that has now been nulled were part of a prior deal that was made, x% increase in pay and term a,b and c. Remove a b and c and you are effectively not honoring the deal. Art of the deal I suppose.
Here is how it looks to me

union(x) < union(x*trump)

You are gonna have less "union" after than before not matter what you call it, and that is not in favor of the working man.
Dig into the details and some of it may sound odd, but it has value. You might as well slash the paycheck.

 

[Jhhnn]

Public sector is exactly where you need a union, and I speak as a college educated management person who spent a few years as a government employee.
Government is run by politicians, their appointees and the appointee's cronies. Generally, public employees (unlike the majority of us) are not able to simply go to the boss and ask for a raise and are at the mercy of the politicians to legislate money for them. And the very first place a politician looks for spending cuts is in the salary of government employees.
I saw numerous people leave the public sector for monetary reasons and sell their expertise to the private sector for double the money. Government was getting a bargain but these politicians couldn't keep from screwing the good people who worked for it.

The GOP claims govt is incompetent & strives mightily to make it so when they're in power.

You're right about the rest of it, too. I worked as a Union employee for the Regional Transportation District for decades. If it wasn't for the Union nobody with any brains would work for them for long.

 

[Thebobo]

Sometimes that’s necessary though

Yep the beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[Thebobo]

As a 30+ year fed gov employee I have never been officially in a union although the AFGE does cover us. And not all gov employees are AFGE. We have some switchgear tech folks who are part IBEW and we were offered to join them, some did I never did. None of this is a big deal imo but just the fact that the trump clan worries about this shit is pathetic.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It seems the Anti Trump clan is worried no? Attacking the little guy. There goes democracy. Sky fell. All that..

 

[Jhhnn]

It seems the Anti Trump clan is worried no? Attacking the little guy. There goes democracy. Sky fell. All that..

So Trump *is* attacking the little guy, correct?

 

[Thebobo]

It seems the Anti Trump clan is worried no? Attacking the little guy. There goes democracy. Sky fell. All that..

No not really more worried about the sanctity of our republic.

 

[sportage]

Trump did what to whom over what concerning what so what the heck?
Things are moving too fast. Hard to keep up.
Maybe for Trump it wouldn't be so bad if Donald Trump simply changed his name.
Fred Smith might be a good suggestion.
"Fred Smith closed down 25 US factories and 2 million people lost their job".
Then we could say, Fred who? And no one would pay any attention.
Fred Smith could even get away with MURDER.

 

[pcgeek11]

These two statements does not compute. Mutual exclusive. In the land of logic.

No they are not.

There is an existing union already.
AND
His order is limiting the government from paying for workers doing Union Business and having the Union pay for its office space.

So both of my statements are correct.

 

[tweaker2]

The GOP claims govt is incompetent & strives mightily to make it so when they're in power.

You're right about the rest of it, too. I worked as a Union employee for the Regional Transportation District for decades. If it wasn't for the Union nobody with any brains would work for them for long.

As a former business agent for a union and a former mid-level management type, I agree. For the most part, unions have had the ability to withstand the assaults of incompetent management types on power trips and revenge agendas against former lower level colleagues. I've seen firsthand how these idiots promoted into management (exactly like Trump btw) try to carve out little fiefdoms for themselves at the expense of the people who work for them. Invariably, these untrained unqualified "managers" got their jobs simply because they weren't more qualified than the guy above them thus eliminating a perceived threat to said superior who invariably is just as incompetent as the guy below him/her.

They all fear the idea that their incompetence will be exposed so they overcompensate for it by becoming little dictators suppressing all threats to their reign. And worst of all, the main threats to their positions of power are those underlings who possess actual leadership skills and real actionable knowledge that put these folks a head above the rest.

These incompetent "managers" will go after these skilled employees to make sure they don't become a problem via providing clear evidence of incompetence with actual knowledgeable facts and data that their own superior intellect gives them. That's where and when abuse, harassment, subterfuge, lies and backstabbing will be employed by these incompetent unqualified "managers" to keep their workers in line simply because they didn't possess the actual talent and knowledge to be (or become) good managers to begin with.

This is where collective bargaining provides the ability of the workforce to include contractual language that provide protections against predatory incompetent management types. Yes, there are employees that exploit the language of said contracts, especially by senior members wizened in the ways of "beating the system" at its own game, but they are the exception to the norms where the vast majority of members benefit in pay, benefits and protections that their representation provides for them.

 

[Jhhnn]

It seems highly likely to me that Trump is attempting to re-write what really are contractual agreements between the Unions & the Govt. The whole thing about union stewards spending more than 1/4 of their time in disciplinary hearings & contract negotiations is a sad joke. How is that measured? by the day, the week, or what?

 

[JSt0rm]

But our so called liberal democrats have no problem calling for a boycott of a state that tries to tell you what bathroom you can use but when it comes to the constant erosion of workers rights by our new silicon valley tech liberals, crickets.

bezos isnt a liberal.