Trump shoots down renaming Army posts named for Confederate leaders

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Trump shoots down renaming Army posts named for Confederate leaders

This merits discussion from Congress
Of course the orange menace will be against it because it would make his base and their
collective heads explode. Can't have the racists think that their leader is against racism.
Pulling down confererate statues is a good first step. Renaming the bases seems the logical next step.

This is simply said by General Petraeus
"
In a lengthy essay in The Atlantic on Tuesday, retired General David Petraeus argued in favor of renaming the bases, saying the "irony of
training at bases named for those who took up arms against the United States, and for the right to enslave others, is inescapable to anyone
paying attention."

"Plainly put, Lee, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it," wrote Petraeus. "The majority of
them had worn the uniform of the U.S. Army, and that Army should not brook any celebration of those who betrayed their country."

"
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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My favorite part was his barely literate tweet storm about it that his press secretary said took him a long time to write.

The guy is seriously barely literate.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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"Plainly put, Lee, Bragg, and the rest committed treason, however much they may have agonized over it," wrote Petraeus. "The majority of
them had worn the uniform of the U.S. Army, and that Army should not brook any celebration of those who betrayed their country."

There was a time when we honored the reunion of the Nation and ALL those who fought, on both sides, as American servicemen. Coming home from the Civil War meant we made peace with the South, and welcomed them back into the fold. It is strange to see the notion of honoring our fellow Americans flip to dishonor 150 years later. But then far fewer people seem to carry with them the notion of southern heritage and of belonging to those whom you now shame and dishonor.

With the passing of centuries they are fading away, and you figure now is the time to erase them entirely. Time will also tell if kicking this sleeping dog has any adverse side effects. Some number of Americans associate the war as a battle for the liberty of secession. Of state's rights and what not. Lincoln himself said the Union was his only objective. The rest merely a means to an end. The end of State's Rights, many Republicans might think. Even a slippery slope towards unconstitutional outreaches of central authoritative power when the Department of Justice was expanded. These are not uncommon ideas and themes associated with the matter. The trampling of the people by the big bad government.

So it is not slavery not slavers you tread on per say, there is more to it than that. Is it wrong to hope that you may spit on our fellow Americans and get away with it?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
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Many Confederate generals distinguished themselves in prior American wars, especially the Mexican War. These were men specifically trained and conditioned in the notion of white American exceptionalism and manifest destiny, and spent their formative years fighting for that cause, causing irreparable harm to the nation of Mexico and indigenous peoples of the southwest. It is also why the Civil War was so deadly, because all the generals who fought in it were well conditioned in warfare as peers using the same tactics. The historical revisionism is a bit troubling, and I would prefer we judge historical figures within the context of the times.

Having said that, its time to remove any and all symbols of the Confederacy, and that includes Stone Mountain. Rename Ft. Bragg to commemorate a distinguished black soldier from the Civil War.
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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There was a time when we honored the reunion of the Nation and ALL those who fought, on both sides, as American servicemen. Coming home from the Civil War meant we made peace with the South, and welcomed them back into the fold. It is strange to see the notion of honoring our fellow Americans flip to dishonor 150 years later. But then far fewer people seem to carry with them the notion of southern heritage and of belonging to those whom you now shame and dishonor.

With the passing of centuries they are fading away, and you figure now is the time to erase them entirely. Time will also tell if kicking this sleeping dog has any adverse side effects. Some number of Americans associate the war as a battle for the liberty of secession. Of state's rights and what not. Lincoln himself said the Union was his only objective. The rest merely a means to an end. The end of State's Rights, many Republicans might think. Even a slippery slope towards unconstitutional outreaches of central authoritative power when the Department of Justice was expanded. These are not uncommon ideas and themes associated with the matter. The trampling of the people by the big bad government.

So it is not slavery not slavers you tread on per say, there is more to it than that. Is it wrong to hope that you may spit on our fellow Americans and get away with it?


You seem to have grown up in a different country than most Americans living today.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
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Many Republicans: We are the party of Lincoln! We freed the slaves!

Also many Republicans: The confederate flag and monuments are our heritage and needs to be displayed with honor!
Lincoln supporters didn't wave confederate flags.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Many Confederate generals distinguished themselves in prior American wars, especially the Mexican War. These were men specifically trained and conditioned in the notion of white American exceptionalism and manifest destiny, and spent their formative years fighting for that cause, causing irreparable harm to the nation of Mexico and indigenous peoples of the southwest. It is also why the Civil War was so deadly, because all the generals who fought in it were well conditioned in warfare as peers using the same tactics. The historical revisionism is a bit troubling, and I would prefer we judge historical figures within the context of the times.
Within the context of their time, they were traitors. No historical revisionism necessary
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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There was a time when we honored the reunion of the Nation and ALL those who fought, on both sides, as American servicemen. Coming home from the Civil War meant we made peace with the South, and welcomed them back into the fold. It is strange to see the notion of honoring our fellow Americans flip to dishonor 150 years later. But then far fewer people seem to carry with them the notion of southern heritage and of belonging to those whom you now shame and dishonor.

With the passing of centuries they are fading away, and you figure now is the time to erase them entirely. Time will also tell if kicking this sleeping dog has any adverse side effects. Some number of Americans associate the war as a battle for the liberty of secession. Of state's rights and what not. Lincoln himself said the Union was his only objective. The rest merely a means to an end. The end of State's Rights, many Republicans might think. Even a slippery slope towards unconstitutional outreaches of central authoritative power when the Department of Justice was expanded. These are not uncommon ideas and themes associated with the matter. The trampling of the people by the big bad government.

So it is not slavery not slavers you tread on per say, there is more to it than that. Is it wrong to hope that you may spit on our fellow Americans and get away with it?

I don't think removing statues of them and/or removing their names from military bases is "erasing them." If you want to learn about history, crack a damn book. You aren't really supposed to be learning history from statues and the names of military bases. If someone wants to erase their names from history books, I would strongly object to that. People need to know everything they did, good and bad.
 

ElFenix

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Mar 20, 2000
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and now i find this asshole is going to the site of the worst race massacre in US history for one of his patented klan rallies. on juneteenth, no less.
 
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rommelrommel

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Dec 7, 2002
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There are a lot of really good reasons why the confederates were not called or deemed traitors at the time, especially after the war.

I think enough time has passed to recognise that they fought for a horrible cause overall, and that their names don’t need to be actively honoured by the government.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Then you should be able to list all the Confederate officers, soldiers and government officials tried and executed for treason.
They literally fought against their country because they wanted to form their own country where they could legally own black people. We can still judge them even if they were never formally tried and convicted. But please go on being pedantic. It's always so productive.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Do they have like, sanitation ships and planes and stuff in the Navy, or whatever, that just haul shit around, and that we can name after Trump?
 
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uallas5

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Jun 3, 2005
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In other countries, when people commit treason and actively rebel against the government, they only get statues and such if they win. In the US, we glorify a bunch of people that weren't just a-holes but they lost as well.
 

ewdotson

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Oct 30, 2011
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There are a lot of really good reasons why the confederates were not called or deemed traitors at the time, especially after the war.
Lots of northerners were perfectly comfortable calling Confederates traitors at the time. There was a whole, big debate and in addition to the general amnesty, several individuals received pardons for treason from Lincoln and Johnson.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
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As surprising as it sounds, I think the BLM movement is actually making progress in America, the first real racial progress since the 60's.
They've encouraged an awful lot of change in society and they didn't even get congress to pass any bills. Donald fights them on a lot of stuff, but he doesn't always win. Many corporations and even small private businesses have changed their image and how they operate. Sure it's because they're desperate for money but at least they are doing things. Every day when I check the news I see something improved to be less racist or more open and accepting, old names for things are disappearing, old monuments to shameful days disappear, it seems like some of us are moving forward. The rest are crying about how it's less acceptable for them to be stupid and ignorant and prejudiced. They can still be prejudiced, but they get called out for it. That's what they're complaining about.
 
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zzyzxroad

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Jan 29, 2017
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As surprising as it sounds, I think the BLM movement is actually making progress in America, the first real racial progress since the 60's.
They've encouraged an awful lot of change in society and they didn't even get congress to pass any bills. Donald fights them on a lot of stuff, but he doesn't always win. Many corporations and even small private businesses have changed their image and how they operate. Sure it's because they're desperate for money but at least they are doing things. Every day when I check the news I see something improved to be less racist or more open and accepting, old names for things are disappearing, old monuments to shameful days disappear, it seems like some of us are moving forward. The rest are crying about how it's less acceptable for them to be stupid and ignorant and prejudiced. They can still be prejudiced, but they get called out for it. That's what they're complaining about.

Best thing trump has done is spark a long overdue conversation. Would be wonderfully ironic if it is the topic to cause his downfall.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,331
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Wonder if they will ever rename the Jefferson Davis Hwy in Arlington, VA. Used to cross over that road most of my young life on my way to my maternal grandparents for our Sunday visits. Oh yea, then there's Lee Hwy, and on, and on, and on......
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
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Lincoln supporters didn't wave confederate flags.

This confederate flag business is troubling. I think waving a confederate flag in front of African Americans is the equivalent of waving a swastika flag in front of Jews. I went to Kentucky and Tennessee several months back and I was astonished at the number of confederate flags on display, especially in people's front yards.

This rationale of honoring their history is very strange. The southern states have been under the US flag for 221 years, and the confederate flag for 4. Why the fascination with commemorating 4 years of a 225 year history which was not exactly their finest hour anyway? The state of Texas was under the Lone Star flag for 10 years. I bet you don't see a 20th as many lone star flags being flown in Texas as confederate flags.

If they really aren't waving this around as a symbol white supremacy, then it's difficult to understand the rationale because historical commemoration clearly isn't it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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If they really aren't waving this around as a symbol white supremacy, then it's difficult to understand the rationale because historical commemoration clearly isn't it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Lee_(car)

It's a symbol of southern identity. Of rebel identity.
If you do not understand that, or its importance, then I wonder if you were never raised as or associated with a Regan Republican. How patriotic it is / was to spit in the face of The Big Bad Government. America was born of rebels, and the South kept on that Rebel spirit. If you don't feel the words !@#$ government, you wouldn't understand. The rebel spirit and its flag are an honored part of American culture.