Trump NY indictment thread

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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,311
4,428
136
I don't think the public interest is served by saying its ok to commit a massive amount of fraud and essentially be let off the hook to go keep doing it which he obviously would. Madoff died in prison and SBF might well too. I'd be willing to accept a much lower judgement if Trump faced criminal penalties that would result in the same but he isn't.

Exactly who was defrauded in this case? It seems that the Banks were fine with the transactions. Clearly the Judge making his decision before any testimony based of his ability to make an evaluation of real estate. Mar-a-Lago valued at 18 - 30 million.


“The entire real estate community felt it was a joke when they saw that figure,” said Pulitzer, who works for the firm Brown Harris Stevens.
“That thing would get snapped up for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars,” said Rob Thomson, owner of Waterfront Properties and a Mar-a-Lago member. “There is zero chance that it’s going to sell for $40 million or $50 million.”
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,985
47,938
136
You couldn't be further from the truth.

Can you tell me who exactly was defrauded in this case?
Who was the victim of this fraud?
The people who were defrauded were the citizens of New York State and/or Trump's lending counterparties. He either underpaid taxes or got more favorable loan terms.

Regardless, there's something fundamentally more important that you're missing here as to why this is illegal. If the idea is that it's not fraud because Trump doesn't default on any of his loans, etc. then by that logic Enron, FTX, and Bernie Madoff were legal right up until the point they blew up because up until that point they always paid everyone exactly what they owed them.

It's illegal because lying to your counterparties is only 'victimless' until it isn't.
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,576
2,002
136
Eh, I don't see the problem with insurrection-supporting rapists--er, sorry, sexual assaulters--engaging in fraud to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. After all, he didn't finger-bang me against my will, or try to kick me out of office, or take money from my wallet.

It's all just funny money. Print more!

And here I thought that Steven Seagal--before he became a bloated Louisiana cop--said nobody is.....ABOVE THE LAW. We have been finding out otherwise for quite a while now.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,542
2,851
136
Are you conflating bail with judgment? Theyre not the same thing, like at all. What does madoff's bail bond have to do with trump's judgment?
Exactly who was defrauded in this case? It seems that the Banks were fine with the transactions. Clearly the Judge making his decision before any testimony based of his ability to make an evaluation of real estate. Mar-a-Lago valued at 18 - 30 million.


“The entire real estate community felt it was a joke when they saw that figure,” said Pulitzer, who works for the firm Brown Harris Stevens.
“That thing would get snapped up for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars,” said Rob Thomson, owner of Waterfront Properties and a Mar-a-Lago member. “There is zero chance that it’s going to sell for $40 million or $50 million
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,864
2,066
126
There is a huge difference between using Taxpayers money to pay for student debt and the reduction of an arbitrary bond amount for a trial appeal. As the original fine still applies if he loses the appeal.
How is him not paying a crapload of taxes not victim-less? That extra tax revenue could have actually been used for something worthwhile in the state.

Those extra tax revenues could be used for said student debt relief :p
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,916
6,493
136
How is him not paying a crapload of taxes not victim-less? That extra tax revenue could have actually been used for something worthwhile in the state.

Those extra tax revenues could be used for said student debt relief :p

You're expecting too much critical thinking ability from Trump voters..

They prefer easy 1 word conspiracy theories! Ukraine, Pelosi, Pizzagate, Qanon, Soros..
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
787
1,197
136
You all need to remember pcgeek is lying magat who will vote for the rapist. Put him on ignore. It is the same Fox News talking points with the bigot ignorant fool all the time. He will never get it because he is invested in supporting rapist conman
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,916
6,493
136
You all need to remember pcgeek is lying magat who will vote for the rapist. Put him on ignore. It is the same Fox News talking points with the bigot ignorant fool all the time. He will never get it because he is invested in supporting rapist conman

Yeah when he says we couldn't be further from the truth.. actually means we couldn't be closer to the truth!
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,976
15,111
126
The amount is certainly a problem, but according to Trump's lawyers, that wasn't the real issue. Normally I DGAF what they claim, but most articles I've read state that bonding companies/insurers don't want RE as collateral. And they certainly don't want a large basket of mortgaged* Trump properties as collateral. They all want cash and cash equivalents as collateral, which is what he posted for the appeal bond in the EJ Carroll case. Obvious reason being they don't want to deal with the headache of asset recovery if he can't or won't pay.

If it's true that not Chubb or any of 30ish insurers is willing to bankroll $500M for Trump, then it's likely true they are still not interested at nearly $200M. Trump's litigious history and screwing over of businesses and people is also very well known. The 2.5% fee you can make isn't worth the risk unless he's putting up cash equivalents as collateral. And if he's elected POTUS in November, good luck seeing your money until 2029 at the earliest.

* Even his namesake Trump Tower has a $100M mortgage on it. If you were a rich billionaire, wouldn't you want to own your most famous building free and clear after all this time?
Trump said under oath he had the cash. Hit him with perjury now.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,392
722
126
So they lowered the bond to $175 milion. He was bragging he had the $455, but I still somehow doubt that even $175s still too much for mega billionaire extraordinaire Don.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,004
4,760
146
I’ve seen a bunch of articles in the last few days about ‘it’s going to be hard for New York to seize Trump’s properties’ and I feel like the author is either a moron or it’s deliberate clickbait.

The basic premise is that the properties are already highly leveraged and other creditors are ahead of NYS in line to be paid if they are sold so the state might not see that much money from an individual sale.

Do people not realize that’s not a state problem, but Trump’s problem? All that means is they have to seize even more of his properties. lol.
Yes, it's one of those conditions where English although confusing works in both ways. His assets are diluted and he's deluded.
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,671
2,424
126
Exactly who was defrauded in this case? It seems that the Banks were fine with the transactions. Clearly the Judge making his decision before any testimony based of his ability to make an evaluation of real estate. Mar-a-Lago valued at 18 - 30 million.


“The entire real estate community felt it was a joke when they saw that figure,” said Pulitzer, who works for the firm Brown Harris Stevens.
“That thing would get snapped up for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars,” said Rob Thomson, owner of Waterfront Properties and a Mar-a-Lago member. “There is zero chance that it’s going to sell for $40 million or $50 million.”

This bond was based upon findings of fact and a judgment duly rendered by a court of law-it certainly was not some arbitrary figure concocted up by thin air despite what your newsmax/faux stage personalities are telling you.

The actual Judgment is easily available to download and read if you want to put some effort in, but I doubt that is the case.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,916
6,493
136
This bond was based upon findings of fact and a judgment duly rendered by a court of law-it certainly was not some arbitrary figure concocted up by thin air despite what your newsmax/faux stage personalities are telling you.

The actual Judgment is easily available to download and read if you want to put some effort in, but I doubt that is the case.

The funny thing in this is he uses banks as a metric of intelligence..

Those banks that landed us in the great depression because they gave loans to everyone who couldn't afford.

The same banks who heavily lobbied for Trump to turn back the regulation so they could take much bigger risks again..

The very same banks who are risk of failing now and last year after their risky bets..

Best not to respond to a fucking idiot on the internet. Just ignore the trumpanzee turd.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,091
2,162
136
There is a huge difference between using Taxpayers money to pay for student debt and the reduction of an arbitrary bond amount for a trial appeal. As the original fine still applies if he loses the appeal.

I think this 454 million bond is excessive considering nobody was damaged and the banks were fine with their dealings with Trump.
Bernie Madoff's bail was only 10 million after his 64 billion dollar ponzie scheme fraud.

Bankman-Fried was released on a $250 million bond after stealing 8.6 billion dollars.

I'm all for justice, but this just seems like political retribution and revenge.


Really?

You are comparing a civil trial to a criminal trial…

They are completely different

1. The bond was pretty much escrow during the appeal process…

2. The “bond” price was determined by trumps gain by cooking the books giving him better rates on loans and etc.

3. Banks only have so much to lend…. Tying loans up with fraudulent details made it possible so others could not get loans.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,088
12,180
146
Exactly who was defrauded in this case? It seems that the Banks were fine with the transactions.
Not sure why anyone has to tell you this, but they're fine with it because they pass the costs down to everyone else. When a bank loses money, they increase costs to everyone else to recoup. If it's too much, they pass it to the govt to recoup through taxes. Trump could have grifted a thousand small businesses and only affected maybe 10k people total. When you fuck with banks or the US govt, you fuck with everyone.

Trump defrauded e v e r y o n e, and that was before he ever ran for president.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,046
27,781
136
Exactly who was defrauded in this case? It seems that the Banks were fine with the transactions. Clearly the Judge making his decision before any testimony based of his ability to make an evaluation of real estate. Mar-a-Lago valued at 18 - 30 million.


“The entire real estate community felt it was a joke when they saw that figure,” said Pulitzer, who works for the firm Brown Harris Stevens.
“That thing would get snapped up for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars,” said Rob Thomson, owner of Waterfront Properties and a Mar-a-Lago member. “There is zero chance that it’s going to sell for $40 million or $50 million.”
Who is harmed in prostitution cases yet we prosecute them.

Funds at a given financial institution are not unlimited. If you give someone a lot of money at a low rate another person will not be able to get that same low rate.

If Trump overvalued for loans and undervalued for taxes the people of NY have been defrauded on tax revenue.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,046
27,781
136
I just saw a Fox News montage of all the hosts saying Trumps crimes were victimless. Now we know where @pcgeek11 got his talking points

This the the same network that rails against poor people abusing government programs. If Trump takes chunks of money at lower than market rates that means everyone else pays more.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,573
29,191
146
It's amazing how quickly the two-time Trump voter who will never (but of course actually will) vote for the admitted fascist Trump again is so quick to carry water for the MAGA bitch and all the other magats in the sphere as soon as there is some slight pin light of advantage for him.

You can set your clock to the speed with which pcgeek predictably reneges on his desire for "justice."
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,091
2,162
136
I just saw a Fox News montage of all the hosts saying Trumps crimes were victimless. Now we know where @pcgeek11 got his talking points

This the the same network that rails against poor people abusing government programs. If Trump takes chunks of money at lower than market rates that means everyone else pays more.

I cannot understand why people watch Fox…

They lost the world’s largest defamation case of all time for the insane amount of lies they told

But people still watch them..
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,573
29,191
146
I cannot understand why people watch Fox…

They lost the world’s largest defamation case of all time for the insane amount of lies they told

But people still watch them..

Very simple. People, on average, want bias confirmation. They don't want to be informed. It's far easier, because critical thinking is hard, takes time, and can confuse you if it leads to you challenging your core beliefs and the eventual acceptance that you have been wrong about something, perhaps your entire life, especially when you come to realize there really is no solid foundation for that thing you once believed.

It is why the GOP has lead a vicious assault on the nation's educational system for 4 decades now--they need the dumb and compliant rabble in order to "peacefully" decimate western Democracy as it is known in the US, and install the proper dictators that they all pine for. This is a key pillar of the southern strategy, and it has worked remarkably for the few, but extremely loud rabble that make up the GOP base.

And as purely and indisputable the facts of history that I mentioned above, not one pissant GOP bootlicker that has voted lockstep for exactly what I have said here, time and time again, will ever admit to actually doing it and will forever be internally incapable of accepting how fucking ignorant they are.

You will always see pcgeek and greenman, for example, complain about "those dummies" like MTG and Boebert and Gaetz and Trump, who "don't represent them," but this is their party and they have consistently voted for them. Always and without fail. "It's not OUR FAULT, Tho!"

Fuck this scum.