News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

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Mar 11, 2004
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Last time you rambled off a bunch of questions that were already answered if you had even read one article about the issue, what are your new questions that need to be answered?

Its interesting how often you fools keep letting them dress you up in their clown makeup (which is just shit, by the way).

Even cartoon characters aren't constantly this surprised to find out how full of shit another character that is literally just always full of shit is after they for some reason decide to treat them as not full of shit despite there being no reason to.
 
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BoomerD

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Feb 26, 2006
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If only there was a way to explain to Trump supporters why he is a criminal, the world would be a much better place. I get it that not everyone knows the deep details of how classified documents work, but could Fox News be held accountable for spreading the false rumor that Trump had the legal authority to declassified documents at will? The only way I can think of Fox News ever being found responsible for spreading such rumor, would be if it was possible to declare Fox News a national threat by spreading lies about how classified documents work.

But King Donnie the Twice Impeached Dotard waved his hands and said the magic words, "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie...these documents are all declassified!" And vee-oh-lah, they were. So, no penalty for those who boxed them up, no penalty for anyone, even foreign agents who might have looked at them or copied them, and (most importantly, no penalties for King Donnie who also declared, "These are mine...MINE I SAY!"

That is the mindset over at "the site which shall not be named." They're going on and on about "Trump said he declassified the documents, (regardless of any proof or procedure) therefore, no crime was committed."
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,048
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Trump faces Investigations. Not criminal charges.
FTFY!

We are still in the Investigation part of process. Indictments and charges come later in the process. What is it with people not understanding how slow the wheels of justice are. Most major cases take years to do investigations and gather evidence before inditements and charges take place. Do you really think they are going to rush thru and fast track it when it involves a former President, Specially as volatile this country is when it comes to Trump and his supporters? It's not realistic to believe it would be happening any faster.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Well, it would be fitting if Garland came out and stated that it makes no difference if a suspect is a presidential candidate or not.
 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,107
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Maybe I'm wrong here, but I believe if the FBI had found those documents in my house, I would be in jail. They put normal people in jail and deny bail for far far less every day.
With some individuals not so simple. Esp when you know there may be consequences that could undermine public order or lead to violence. Trump is a special nut case who has hordes of zombies at his beck and call.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,060
8,608
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But King Donnie the Twice Impeached Dotard waved his hands and said the magic words, "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie...these documents are all declassified!" And vee-oh-lah, they were. So, no penalty for those who boxed them up, no penalty for anyone, even foreign agents who might have looked at them or copied them, and (most importantly, no penalties for King Donnie who also declared, "These are mine...MINE I SAY!"

That is the mindset over at "the site which shall not be named." They're going on and on about "Trump said he declassified the documents, (regardless of any proof or procedure) therefore, no crime was committed."

Trump doesn’t have a notion of “other people’s stuff” at all. There is stuff that is in his possession, and stuff temporarily out of his possession, but the idea of a thing “belonging” to someone other than him is simply a non-concept; an oxymoron. I have seen no evidence that Trump makes plans of any kind. He lives in the present moment, only. If something appears to be popular or successful, Trump will claim ownership and credit for it; when something (or someone) is not useful to Trump, he will throw it under the bus without a second thought.

When Trump’s presidency was ending, he saw something that might someday be useful, so he kept it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he showed off the trove of documents to visitors, just to make himself look more important. Now that they may be used against him, the documents are insignificant and the whole thing is just a witch hunt. He grabbed stuff with his tiny hands, and when authorities applied pressure, he stupidly dug in his heels, because how dare anyone tell him what to do, or there are these pesky laws you need to follow.

I assume he’s been showing them around, preening and puffing like a shithead, and other nefarious actors in the notoriously porous M-a-L may have noticed their value and taken a peek. Not necessarily because Trump was consciously selling for profit. It was his puffed up ego waving something important with no discretion because he wanted to and thought no little people could stop him. And, this may complicate a criminal prosecution, if they can demonstrate no motive more compelling than “he’s just a stupid mentally ill narcissist.”

He feels that since he’s President, he should get to keep some cool stuff that will impress people.
He doesn’t think a bunch of archiving document nerds should get to tell him what to do with HIS stuff.
He compulsively hides everything, because he knows paper trails are rarely good for him
He’s most likely charging someone money to look at it. Charging people for being in the same room with an awesome guy who has awesome stuff. But I guarantee someone’s taken advantage of his stupidity.

Inferring intent is the hardest thing with Trump. He might be bold enough to sell nuclear secrets for money, he might be stupid enough to give them away in exchange for nothing but flattery. In any given moment he couldn’t explain what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, or whether it’s legal, because he doesn’t fully know or care. That’s a big reason why it’s so hard to pin him down.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,532
7,858
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Trump doesn’t have a notion of “other people’s stuff” at all. There is stuff that is in his possession, and stuff temporarily out of his possession, but the idea of a thing “belonging” to someone other than him is simply a non-concept; an oxymoron. I have seen no evidence that Trump makes plans of any kind. He lives in the present moment, only. If something appears to be popular or successful, Trump will claim ownership and credit for it; when something (or someone) is not useful to Trump, he will throw it under the bus without a second thought.

When Trump’s presidency was ending, he saw something that might someday be useful, so he kept it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he showed off the trove of documents to visitors, just to make himself look more important. Now that they may be used against him, the documents are insignificant and the whole thing is just a witch hunt. He grabbed stuff with his tiny hands, and when authorities applied pressure, he stupidly dug in his heels, because how dare anyone tell him what to do, or there are these pesky laws you need to follow.

I assume he’s been showing them around, preening and puffing like a shithead, and other nefarious actors in the notoriously porous M-a-L may have noticed their value and taken a peek. Not necessarily because Trump was consciously selling for profit. It was his puffed up ego waving something important with no discretion because he wanted to and thought no little people could stop him. And, this may complicate a criminal prosecution, if they can demonstrate no motive more compelling than “he’s just a stupid mentally ill narcissist.”

He feels that since he’s President, he should get to keep some cool stuff that will impress people.
He doesn’t think a bunch of archiving document nerds should get to tell him what to do with HIS stuff.
He compulsively hides everything, because he knows paper trails are rarely good for him
He’s most likely charging someone money to look at it. Charging people for being in the same room with an awesome guy who has awesome stuff. But I guarantee someone’s taken advantage of his stupidity.

Inferring intent is the hardest thing with Trump. He might be bold enough to sell nuclear secrets for money, he might be stupid enough to give them away in exchange for nothing but flattery. In any given moment he couldn’t explain what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, or whether it’s legal, because he doesn’t fully know or care. That’s a big reason why it’s so hard to pin him down.
I disagree with the bolded statement. If anyone else acted the way you described, i.e. not being able to "explain what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, or whether it’s legal, because he doesn’t fully know or care", they would not be given the same preferential treatment that DJT gets. He is hard to pin down because he has money and enough influence that he can buy, delay, or outright deny consequences and someone, somewhere will take the fall for him. It's a damn shame that in the USA, difficulty in life actually decreases after a certain net worth and somehow DJT was born high up enough on the wealth axis that it was simply a matter of rolling down that difficulty curve, i.e. "failing upwards".
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,970
5,590
136
But King Donnie the Twice Impeached Dotard waved his hands and said the magic words, "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie...these documents are all declassified!" And vee-oh-lah, they were. So, no penalty for those who boxed them up, no penalty for anyone, even foreign agents who might have looked at them or copied them, and (most importantly, no penalties for King Donnie who also declared, "These are mine...MINE I SAY!"

That is the mindset over at "the site which shall not be named." They're going on and on about "Trump said he declassified the documents, (regardless of any proof or procedure) therefore, no crime was committed."
From what I can find, that's pretty much exactly how it works. He doesn't even have to say "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie", or wave his hands.
Found an explanation that seems to be well documented, though it might be one of those looney right wing sites.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,241
5,810
126
But King Donnie the Twice Impeached Dotard waved his hands and said the magic words, [Top Secret - redactedthese documents are all declassified!" And vee-oh-lah, they were. So, no penalty for those who boxed them up, no penalty for anyone, even foreign agents who might have looked at them or copied them, and (most importantly, no penalties for King Donnie who also declared, "These are mine...MINE I SAY!"

That is the mindset over at "the site which shall not be named." They're going on and on about "Trump said he declassified the documents, (regardless of any proof or procedure) therefore, no crime was committed."

The FBI will knock shortly...
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,286
16,770
136
From what I can find, that's pretty much exactly how it works. He doesn't even have to say "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie", or wave his hands.
Found an explanation that seems to be well documented, though it might be one of those looney right wing sites.
Problem is there can only be one President at a time, the moment Biden was sworn in he lost the right/ability to do that.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,987
7,503
136
Trump doesn’t have a notion of “other people’s stuff” at all. There is stuff that is in his possession, and stuff temporarily out of his possession, but the idea of a thing “belonging” to someone other than him is simply a non-concept; an oxymoron. I have seen no evidence that Trump makes plans of any kind. He lives in the present moment, only. If something appears to be popular or successful, Trump will claim ownership and credit for it; when something (or someone) is not useful to Trump, he will throw it under the bus without a second thought.

When Trump’s presidency was ending, he saw something that might someday be useful, so he kept it. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he showed off the trove of documents to visitors, just to make himself look more important. Now that they may be used against him, the documents are insignificant and the whole thing is just a witch hunt. He grabbed stuff with his tiny hands, and when authorities applied pressure, he stupidly dug in his heels, because how dare anyone tell him what to do, or there are these pesky laws you need to follow.

I assume he’s been showing them around, preening and puffing like a shithead, and other nefarious actors in the notoriously porous M-a-L may have noticed their value and taken a peek. Not necessarily because Trump was consciously selling for profit. It was his puffed up ego waving something important with no discretion because he wanted to and thought no little people could stop him. And, this may complicate a criminal prosecution, if they can demonstrate no motive more compelling than “he’s just a stupid mentally ill narcissist.”

He feels that since he’s President, he should get to keep some cool stuff that will impress people.
He doesn’t think a bunch of archiving document nerds should get to tell him what to do with HIS stuff.
He compulsively hides everything, because he knows paper trails are rarely good for him
He’s most likely charging someone money to look at it. Charging people for being in the same room with an awesome guy who has awesome stuff. But I guarantee someone’s taken advantage of his stupidity.

Inferring intent is the hardest thing with Trump. He might be bold enough to sell nuclear secrets for money, he might be stupid enough to give them away in exchange for nothing but flattery. In any given moment he couldn’t explain what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, or whether it’s legal, because he doesn’t fully know or care. That’s a big reason why it’s so hard to pin him down.


That right there is a trait that Trump's supporters find so attractive and endearing to them. They cheer him on by the millions whenever he sidesteps the laws of the land or the clearly understood yet unspoken rules of personal conduct for the office he once held because every time he makes an ass of himself or commits a crime and scoffs at being held accountable he is "sticking it to the man" never mind how he imperils the nation's security or reputation on the world's stage. That he uses his wealth to help him be that way makes him all the more attractive in their eyes.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Well, in the end I suppose Trump will squirm out of this like he usually does. It is like we have some unwritten rule where ex presidents are protected, and high officials as well. Richard Nixon was the exception but that was Nixon's fault, he just had bad lawyers.
This holding Trump accountable thing should have been over by now and Trump in fact held accountable and held accountable in a court, by a real judge, facing real consequences. But instead, Trump delays and plays his games and allowed to get away with doing that.

Eventually, the accusations will get so watered down that the only thing Trump will be possibly guilty of is the thickness of the cardboard box the classified documents were stored in at Mar A Lago. Or, failure of maintaining the correct temperature in the room.
It will be something minor. Very minor. Something silly. Something allowing Donald Trump to AGAIN escape justice and get all hyped up for his 2024 presidential run.

Sometimes I wonder of that insurrection, that January coup d'état was in deed successful?
Maybe for us it's already over, folks. :(
 
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kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
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From what I can find, that's pretty much exactly how it works. He doesn't even have to say "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie", or wave his hands.
Found an explanation that seems to be well documented, though it might be one of those looney right wing sites.
You're still refusing to listen to the pertinent part that everyone has been telling you. Sure, a sitting POTUS may classify/declassify documents at will but "nuclear documents" are the exception. Nuclear documents contain restricted information that cannot be disseminated even after the document itself has been declassified. So, it's far from okay for Trump to have nuclear documents in his possession and to use the defense that those "nuclear documents" have been declassified. That point is moot.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,674
8,579
136
Long post deleted for space

That all sounds entirely plausible to me. Could well be the explanation for his stash of documents.

Does seem that Trump acts largely on instinct and is incapable of formulating any long-term plans.

His instincts happen to be in-tune with the state of much of the population these days, hence he has had a certain degree of success. But the latter shortcoming is probably why the US is not yet a fascist dicatatorship.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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From what I can find, that's pretty much exactly how it works. He doesn't even have to say "Eenie Meanie, Chili Beanie", or wave his hands.
Found an explanation that seems to be well documented, though it might be one of those looney right wing sites.
The president does have the authority to declassify things at will. Unfortunately for Trump there is no evidence he did that here and this is not a power that can be used retroactively. If Trump can’t show contemporaneous evidence that he did in fact declassify those documents then he didn’t.

Also, I’m not sure how doing that helps him because for the most part the laws in question don’t require the info to be classified. Is the idea supposed to be that it would be a big scandal if these ultra sensitive national security documents were still classified but since Donnie declared them not anymore it’s ok? If they are declassified that means they are open to FOIA requests so the Russian and Chinese governments can just submit some paperwork to get info on top secret stuff. Sounds bad to me!
 

Lezunto

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2020
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FTFY!

We are still in the Investigation part of process. Indictments and charges come later in the process. What is it with people not understanding how slow the wheels of justice are. Most major cases take years to do investigations and gather evidence before inditements and charges take place. Do you really think they are going to rush thru and fast track it when it involves a former President, Specially as volatile this country is when it comes to Trump and his supporters? It's not realistic to believe it would be happening any faster.

I am not the one claiming Trump is facing charges. I simply refuted such comments.
 

Lezunto

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2020
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Darkswordsman,

One thing I am not is full of chit.

Using "my boy" is employing a colloquialism. You're grasping ... I abhor attacking posters personally and that's why I try my best to refrain from doing so.

This is why I did not mention anyone's name.

I am not one of those wide eyed zealots claiming Trump is a traitor without a conviction. You can yell all you want. But I would rather have a conviction before uttering such a falsehood.

Some of you guys love to yell, post vituperative nonsense and engage in personal attacks. I'd rather not and try to stick to the available truth.

If that bothers you, because it sure seems that it does, don't engage me or ask the forum moderators to ban me. But I will not get into the mud with people whose keyboards are tools for untruths. I try to be rational.

But it seems many of you are so peeved Trump still breathes and is free, you'll attack anyone.

You are simply frustrated the man lives, breathes and is free to walk around.

So, anyone who notes that Trump has not been convicted of a criminal charge yet comes in for your demonization.

You are roundly ticked off your anger and rage are not enough to give you and others what you want: Trump's head on a platter.

"Hope deferred makes the heart sick: but when the desire comes, it is a tree of life." (Proverbs 13:12)
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,156
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FBI to provide a response to Trump's special master request. You know, a legal document composed by real professionals.

Really, it's whether the judge can be convinced trump is full of shit. It should be obvious, but somehow that one escapes a lot of people
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,970
5,590
136
Problem is there can only be one President at a time, the moment Biden was sworn in he lost the right/ability to do that.
According to the article I linked, Trumps actions declassified the material. It's an interesting read and has a link to the last time the order was revised by Obama. The order is pretty dry reading, but the information is there.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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According to the article I linked, Trumps actions declassified the material. It's an interesting read and has a link to the last time the order was revised by Obama. The order is pretty dry reading, but the information is there.

You only ever demand "proof," all the time, for all these "questions" you ask. The only proof you need, here, for this to be answered, is that all the documents would have had to have been stamped, filed, and documented as declassified--for them to have actually be declassified, however Trump admin went about it. No matter what he says or thinks in a moment, the filing has to be done, and it has to be documented. End of fucking story.

It would be obvious instantly, and would already be known; we would all know it right now. It isn't something that requires more than 5 minutes of public debate.

It's funny that someone like you, who only ever demands "proof and evidence," continues to equivocate here when all the necessary proof and evidence on this issue is instantly available. Why do you, then, ignore the proof and evidence that we actually have, and hold out that, somehow, through magical MAGA farts, the real proof and truth of the matter, "will be known?"

Why do you do this? Is it because you are just being disingenuous about your request for proof again?

You're exactly defending this argument, now, based on what Trump says, now, about something he said he did, then. Without any documented trial to finalize the declassification, we are left with the word of Trump and his sycophants about a thing that has happened, after they got caught doing unquestionable treason.

Again: you are, here, putting up Trump's word as all the necessary evidence to satisfy this declassification. Why do you accept that Trump's word is all that is needed, here, when you never, ever, ever trust the word of anyone else? ...a person that can't utter 4 syllables without lying, for his entire life, and you suddenly want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The fuck happened to your brain? I don't feel that you are naturally this stupid, but you have let your brain become hijacked by pure partisan dumbshittery over the years.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
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According to the article I linked, Trumps actions declassified the material. It's an interesting read and has a link to the last time the order was revised by Obama. The order is pretty dry reading, but the information is there.
That is not what your article said, if anything it indicates the opposite. Regardless here’s a far more recent event where Trump stated something was declassified explicitly only to have his own White House say that’s not the case and for a federal judge to rule the info was still classified.


Presumably this new information changes your mind?

While the president has the power to declassify anything they want they still have to, you know, do it. The idea that any document that exists could be psychically declassified at any time by the president would render the whole system useless. It would also mean any secret disclosed by an ex president by taking to their house is now open to freedom of information requests.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
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Also this novel legal theory indicates that Trump must be available for subpoena in any court case or disciplinary proceeding originating from 2017 to 2021 that involves the mishandling of classified material because that means the defense now has the very valid argument that maybe Trump psychically declassified it and didn’t tell anyone.