News Trump: Mar-a-Lago just raided by FBI

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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
136
Oh That Donald....
Every time Donald gets into trouble Donald comes up with an excuse. An excuse or answer that makes no sense, naturally makes no sense, yet still an answer never the less or more so an excuse or justification. Yes that's it, a justification.

And so... when caught committing his many dubious deeds Donald Trump puts out there his lame-ass excuses to justify his screw-ups and criminal activities. We all know none of what Donald says makes any sense nor any logic nor comes close to being the truth, so why does Donald Trump do it? And keeps on doing it? Why does he feel the need to say anything at all, to anyone?
Well, I figured it out. I now realize his motivates.

You see, in order to put your lie out there you must then have someone, a third party as it were, to echo the lie over and over. And this is what Donald Trump is so good at doing because Donald Trump has those needed third party accomplices to echo. Donald Trump has his 7 million accomplices, plus Fox News.

Lets say.... lets say you told someone that you seen a flying saucer. Most people would not believe you, but if you had one or two or maybe 7 million people willing to say "I SEEN IT TOO", then your lie moves into the realm of reality. You know damn well that that you lied and just made it up, and so do those 7 million others know you lied and just made it up (the flying saucer thing), and yet the lie is repeated. Willingly.

My point???
At any other time Donald Trump would be treated for what he actually is, a crook and a lier and a thug, if and only if Donald Trump did not have those third party repeaters out there to echo and give the illusion that his lie just might have some truth.

Donald Trump has his followers, has his Q people, and has his Fox News to repeat the lies of Donald Trump over and over. And then, people, some people, scratch their head and ask themselves, "GEE, MAYBE HE DID SEE A FLYING SAUCER"???
And all this time there was never a flying saucer.
Then I ask myself.... WHY are we even talking about Donald Trump's flying saucer in the first place?
Begin to see how this works?

So when Trump claims he has the power at will to declassify every document he feels like declassifying, we all know this is a lie. But then when 7 million followers plus Fox News begins repeating that same lie then people begin to wonder... does Trump have the power to do this???
Again, the answer to the question is still "NO".
Yet because so many Trump loyalist repeat, and echo, we then have people out there beginning to wonder.

Trump does this all the time about anything and everything. Trump just makes-up crap to justify his criminal atrocities against the American people, and then we have the mass repetition of that made-up crap, where suddenly people start to believe the lie as fact.

And THEN guess what happens.... things get sooooo distorted and the truth soooo twisted that we watch in horror as legitimate government agencies and legitimate government judges appoint A SPECIAL MASTER to decipher whether or not the actions of a crook were the actions of a crook? WTF you say..... We should all be asking WTF!!!
This crook Donald Trump should go straight to F-ing jail (as Al Pacino so brilliantly put it in that movie). People.... we DO NOT need a F-ing """special master""".

Donald Trump stole highly classified government documents plain and simple. And THAT is the only truth that people need to know. Donald Trump is in fact a crook and in fact should have already been sent straight to F-ing jail. PERIOD!
A Special Master???? :rolleyes: :mad::( DO NOT WASTE OUR TIME.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,314
9,171
136
For years I said Trump will be indicted and everyone said ‘lol he will get away with everything’.

Looking forward to this.

I wouldn't pop the champagne just yet ...

While this latest case does seriously increase those chances beyond what was already in the news (1-6, voting stuff, etc.), there are still some MAJOR hurdles still to come.

The first (and biggest IMO) is any reference to classified material in any of the court proceedings. The affidavit both downplays and upsells the existence of it. On one hand there's a footnote stating that the info need not be classified, but also references to precedents where courts held that classified info was covered under the relevant section of code. Also, they went to great detail to list out the counts/pages of each type in order to get the judge to grant the warrant. If it does end up that DoJ wants to introduce it, they just can't enter it as exhibit A-Z. Each piece has to be reviewed AND APPROVED by the owning agency. If there's a HUMINT piece in there, CIA can just say "nah, we're good with that not being revealed any more" and it's not getting in. Then even if the agencies agree and it does get in, you enter a whole new world of hurt regarding who can/will get access to it. Have to have a defense member that is cleared. Takes time. Have to worry about members of the court as well. What about the jury? The extra procedural steps are an enormous time drain. Now, if the DoJ doesn't choose to use it to avoid all that (which is where I think they're going) you run the PR risk of a huge chorus of "See, there wasn't any classified info in the boxes. It's all a witch-hunt blah blah" from 40% of the country. Of course that shouldn't matter in the case itself, but ...

The second is where the trial (if any) will be held. It's either gonna be DC or FL, but there will be a fight over that with FPOTUS obviously wanting FL.

The third is the jury, which weighs heavily (but not entirely) on issue #2. With FL you're almost guaranteed to get a sympathetic MAGAt on the panel. Enough said. With DC, you're almost assuredly going to get a very blue jury (an argument they'll use in #2). Even then, there's still a chance that one member isn't buying it for whatever reasons. This isn't the Manafort case by any stretch. That was a fairly obvious slam dunk with $$$ and paperwork trails. This will be one of the most complex criminal cases, both in previously unexplored legal issues related to the office, and in battling through the bullshit that will be thrown up as a distraction.


For the record, I think he will now be indicted for something related to this but either won't be convicted, or won't serve any sentence due to legal challenges dragging it out beyond his lifetime. Either way, he'll still be getting away with it. And fundraising all the while, which is his main goal anyway.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,831
40,423
136
If this turns out to be true, do you think that would cause any of his cult followers to rethink their support or anything they’ve supported because of him? Or will it be more of the same, lame excuses, conspiracy theories, and victimhood?

I think we'll see it break down into 3 groups. The two main ones will be those who stick to the same old formula of fail and denial you mentioned, and the other will be those that just quietly fade away, hoping their frothy support of Il Douche will be forgotten in all the hubbub. The smaller group of the three will, unfortunately, be the truley unstable ones who may resort to violence or acts of obstruction/sabotage. I do seriously doubt a certain element of the Waffle House brigade and Oathkeeper types will just hang it up, hope I'm wrong. Should be small though. The single actor, incel psychos we've seen kill already in public places might also have their own surge though. More danger there as those acts are harder to prevent generally.

One caveat is that the separation from Trump has already started to some degree. We've seen multiple talking heads suggest it on Fox Noise already. He's just too much baggage now, repugs can have all the maga they want plus a functioning brain and no treason with DeSantis. He's more into the culture war side of things, acting like a king, making unconstitutional laws, you know the fun stuff.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,027
13,538
136
A pardon in exchange for Trump coming clean to his base about his bullshit and a pledge to shut the fuck up for the rest of his natural life.
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
I actually thought Trump was finally, finally starting to fade into the background. Even if a little. Now this comes along and he's front, center-page all over again. So far, this has been nothing but net gain for him.
 
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Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,506
13,132
146
A pardon in exchange for Trump coming clean to his base about his bullshit and a pledge to shut the fuck up for the rest of his natural life.
IMO he'd rather die, sticking to his guns loaded with lies, leaving people thinking he was just a persecuted victim all along. To admit his own wrongdoing, especially intentional, is something that I don't recall Trump ever doing in his life.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,165
30,117
146
Didn't his "lawyers" sign on to the statement in their original disclosure about returning "all!" of the classified documents that they personally reviewed them to ensure that everything was returned?

Doesn't this also mean that they have admitted to viewing documents that they have absolutely no authority and credentials to see? Doesn't this also mean that they get sent to prison--and worse--as well?

If anything, I would like to see DoJ put the pressure on his lawyers to make a deal to keep themselves out of prison, disbarred for life as well, naturally, probably have to keep them off the internet for 10+ years, ankle bracelets, maybe....to turn over Orange Monkey, while doing much of the prosecutors' own work of building the rest of the case against Trump and Family.

...seems like a pretty good deal to me. Prison and firing squad for you idiots, or the end of your miserable careers in exchange for the Monkey and his family being marched up to the gallows.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,831
40,423
136
A pardon in exchange for Trump coming clean to his base about his bullshit and a pledge to shut the fuck up for the rest of his natural life.

Well, that's actually what I expect DeSantis' implicit bargain with Team Treason voters will be when the time comes. Put me in the Oval Office and Trump gets a pardon on Day 1.

Even the really crazy people in the cult understand that Trump is in a lot of trouble, at some point they will shift to trying to save face instead of trying to propel Trump's political ambitions. They can only deny certain realities for so long before more contortions are required on their part.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
I wouldn't pop the champagne just yet ...

While this latest case does seriously increase those chances beyond what was already in the news (1-6, voting stuff, etc.), there are still some MAJOR hurdles still to come.

The first (and biggest IMO) is any reference to classified material in any of the court proceedings. The affidavit both downplays and upsells the existence of it. On one hand there's a footnote stating that the info need not be classified, but also references to precedents where courts held that classified info was covered under the relevant section of code. Also, they went to great detail to list out the counts/pages of each type in order to get the judge to grant the warrant. If it does end up that DoJ wants to introduce it, they just can't enter it as exhibit A-Z. Each piece has to be reviewed AND APPROVED by the owning agency. If there's a HUMINT piece in there, CIA can just say "nah, we're good with that not being revealed any more" and it's not getting in. Then even if the agencies agree and it does get in, you enter a whole new world of hurt regarding who can/will get access to it. Have to have a defense member that is cleared. Takes time. Have to worry about members of the court as well. What about the jury? The extra procedural steps are an enormous time drain. Now, if the DoJ doesn't choose to use it to avoid all that (which is where I think they're going) you run the PR risk of a huge chorus of "See, there wasn't any classified info in the boxes. It's all a witch-hunt blah blah" from 40% of the country. Of course that shouldn't matter in the case itself, but ...

The second is where the trial (if any) will be held. It's either gonna be DC or FL, but there will be a fight over that with FPOTUS obviously wanting FL.

The third is the jury, which weighs heavily (but not entirely) on issue #2. With FL you're almost guaranteed to get a sympathetic MAGAt on the panel. Enough said. With DC, you're almost assuredly going to get a very blue jury (an argument they'll use in #2). Even then, there's still a chance that one member isn't buying it for whatever reasons. This isn't the Manafort case by any stretch. That was a fairly obvious slam dunk with $$$ and paperwork trails. This will be one of the most complex criminal cases, both in previously unexplored legal issues related to the office, and in battling through the bullshit that will be thrown up as a distraction.


For the record, I think he will now be indicted for something related to this but either won't be convicted, or won't serve any sentence due to legal challenges dragging it out beyond his lifetime. Either way, he'll still be getting away with it. And fundraising all the while, which is his main goal anyway.
I think it will be a slam dunk. The feds will be able to design the indictment to guarantee the trial is held in DC, the statutes in question are clear, and for most of them whether or not the material is classified is irrelevant.

Also I don’t agree that any of the legal issues here are complicated. Trump was informed he had federal government property in his possession and he repeatedly refused to return it and lied about it. He might try the ‘my lawyers deceived me’ stance but all the other stuff like psychic declassification or his imagined right to these materials won’t matter.

I do agree with you that he may well be able to draw trials and appeals out for years, perhaps so long that he never spends a day in prison, but I think the actual criminal case here will be a pretty easy one.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
9,017
8,254
136
I actually thought Trump was finally, finally starting to fade into the background. Even if a little. Now this comes along and he's front, center-page all over again. So far, this has been nothing but net gain for him.
This is his toddler mentality... mommy look at me... mommy watch me...mommy look at me... mommy watch me...mommy look at me... mommy watch me...mommy look at me... mommy watch me...mommy look at me... mommy watch me...
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,411
3,192
146
A pardon in exchange for Trump coming clean to his base about his bullshit and a pledge to shut the fuck up for the rest of his natural life.

Did you just propose letting Trump off in exchange for his word?

Pretty easy to see how this goes. Trump admits fault. Trump gets pardon. Trump recants admission saying he was extorted by the derp state.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,027
13,538
136
Did you just propose letting Trump off in exchange for his word?

Pretty easy to see how this goes. Trump admits fault. Trump gets pardon. Trump recants admission saying he was extorted by the derp state.
Not proposing anything... Just trying to predict the future
 
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Dec 10, 2005
25,094
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A pardon in exchange for Trump coming clean to his base about his bullshit and a pledge to shut the fuck up for the rest of his natural life.
Trump cannot be trusted to uphold any agreement he agrees to or signs. How do you keep him from reneging on his promise once you pardon him?

On top of that, pardoning him is just bad policy and helps to perpetuate the idea that we shouldn't hold political leaders accountable for when they break the law.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,506
13,132
146
My buddy's 80+ year old uncle drew this. Had to share, after how hard I laughed.

5ozuskeu3ck91.webp
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,286
16,770
136
I think it will be a slam dunk. The feds will be able to design the indictment to guarantee the trial is held in DC, the statutes in question are clear, and for most of them whether or not the material is classified is irrelevant.

Also I don’t agree that any of the legal issues here are complicated. Trump was informed he had federal government property in his possession and he repeatedly refused to return it and lied about it. He might try the ‘my lawyers deceived me’ stance but all the other stuff like psychic declassification or his imagined right to these materials won’t matter.

I do agree with you that he may well be able to draw trials and appeals out for years, perhaps so long that he never spends a day in prison, but I think the actual criminal case here will be a pretty easy one.

You are counting on the current Justice Department to have the guts to do that.
They haven’t shown that level of guts.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
You are counting on the current Justice Department to have the guts to do that.
They haven’t shown that level of guts.
Yep. Like I said for years I have said he will be indicted and everyone says ‘nahhhh’. One of those reasons is they think the DOJ will let him get away with it.

I maintain you are all wrong and it was obvious from the start. He will be indicted, probably multiple times.