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Trump is coming after your SS and Medicare!

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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,476
1,098
126
Oh Look! I can do that too!

View attachment 16228



It's hilarious the lunacy of people here that still fail to realize that Social Security wasn't a means to redistribute income. It was (and still is) a means of forcing people into a supposed "retirement" program.

The reality though, is that anyone with half a brain could put themselves into a much more competent retirement program.

But hey - say "government program" and make it forced and that automatically makes it successful right?
Even though it's in shambles debt wise?
Even though the ROI is far less than if you simply invested it yourself?


Yeah, naw - it's all good!

Christ - people in my fucking generation have to calculate our net worth based on the fact that we KNOW our social security won't be there for us in 30 years. Yet we know our paychecks will continue to gouge us for it.
Yep. You weren't meant to live on SS for 30 years. When it was first implemented, the average American didn't even live long enough to obtain SS! It was never supossed to be a source of income. And, if it were adjusted for life expecentcy, SS would be bumped up to 82 years old. Imagine if a politician told the truth about how we're broke, and SS needs to be readjusted. He/she would never get elected. In this video Patrick does a wonderful job and breaks down the history of SS, and where it's possibly going. IMO, our way of thinking about money, and saving is broken. It's broken because the people at the top want consumers, and not savers/investors. They want people to spend so they can keep you trapped financially for life: New cars, clothes, homes, TVs, vacations you can't afford, etc. But, what about saving money in your teens. compound interest, saving 60% of your paycheck, Roth IRAs, 401ks, emergency funds, passive vs active income, etc. I could go on. Point is, no one teaches you anything about moiney. Thank god for the internet.

In the end somehting drastic will have to be done. If you don't have the money, you just don't have it. Taxing the wealthy will only help a little. Its not a lasting solution. We have a generation of entitled people who want the government to take care of their needs. That's not going to work out in the end IMO. It all has a price.

 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,134
3,102
126
Taxing the rich...Hmm. Don't you realize just how rich those rich are? What did they say? The top 3 richest (MEN!) in the USA, their wealth is greater than the wealth of that of 1/2 the populace? You don't need a PHD in math to realize that taxing the rich can solve the SS drought going forward to a very considerable extent if not indefinitely. You don't have to string them up by the heels to do this, just give them a shearing once in a while. Sheesh. There used to be a 90% tax rate here some time ago. Nowadays the rich pay less % than their poor servants thanks to Trump, McConnell, Graham and their ilk.

3 US men $$$$$ >> 1/2 US populace $$
 
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Nov 8, 2012
18,473
3,864
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Taxing the rich...Hmm. Don't you realize just how rich those rich are? What did they say? The top 3 richest (MEN!) in the USA, their wealth is greater than the wealth of that of 1/2 the populace? You don't need a PHD in math to realize that taxing the rich can solve the SS drought going forward to a very considerable extent if not indefinitely. You don't have to string them up by the heels to do this, just give them a shearing once in a while. Sheesh. There used to be a 90% tax rate here some time ago. Nowadays the rich pay less % than their poor servants thanks to Trump, McConnell, Graham and their ilk.

3 US men $$$$$ >> 1/2 US populace $$
And yet - people like yourself can't do 2nd grade level research to understand that you can make a tax rate of 100% - it doesn't matter if no one pays them detective Sherlock.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,134
3,102
126
And yet - people like yourself can't do 2nd grade level research to understand that you can make a tax rate of 100% - it doesn't matter if no one pays them detective Sherlock.
You can't help coming across as a complete dick? Fuck off with your ad hominem bullshit. You could at least have something to say, but instead you just get ridiculously abusive and say nothing at all.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,802
4,698
126
Once top marginal tax rate is 70%, capital gains and estates are taxed as ordinary income, Medicare negotiates prices down to the bone, wasteful defense spending is cut in half, if we are still having problems, we can discuss SS and Medicare adjustments.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,156
5,268
136
Only read the OP but this isnt rocket science. He is buying votes in his impeachment trial... Just like that pro life rally thing some days back.
Who knows, once he has the votes to be acquitted he may drop it again... Or he wont, who the fuck knows, well ... Trump is gonna do whats best for Trump you can trust in that.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
15,156
5,268
136
Yep. You weren't meant to live on SS for 30 years. When it was first implemented, the average American didn't even live long enough to obtain SS! It was never supossed to be a source of income. And, if it were adjusted for life expecentcy, SS would be bumped up to 82 years old. Imagine if a politician told the truth about how we're broke, and SS needs to be readjusted. He/she would never get elected. In this video Patrick does a wonderful job and breaks down the history of SS, and where it's possibly going. IMO, our way of thinking about money, and saving is broken. It's broken because the people at the top want consumers, and not savers/investors. They want people to spend so they can keep you trapped financially for life: New cars, clothes, homes, TVs, vacations you can't afford, etc. But, what about saving money in your teens. compound interest, saving 60% of your paycheck, Roth IRAs, 401ks, emergency funds, passive vs active income, etc. I could go on. Point is, no one teaches you anything about moiney. Thank god for the internet.

In the end somehting drastic will have to be done. If you don't have the money, you just don't have it. Taxing the wealthy will only help a little. Its not a lasting solution. We have a generation of entitled people who want the government to take care of their needs. That's not going to work out in the end IMO. It all has a price.

I hate that fucker off the bat..... "Everybody knows ... Everybody knows ... Everybody knows ... "... Gimme a sec to flush.


Taxing the wealthy will only help a little. Its not a lasting solution. We have a generation of entitled people who want the government to take care of their needs.
- Your number ONE problem with the filthy rich is super simple : When the rich get so super rich AND get the brilliant idea to start propaganda outlets and lobby politics to make them selves even MORE super filthy rich.
YOU HAVE LOST.
Its that simple. We keep talking about how capitalism isnt evil, and how big corps doing "shit" isnt evil, cause a businesses obligation to its shareholders and workers is ... to make money. This is true, hands down, I love that my work pays off. Problem is when business gets so big the business BECOMES your government. MEET THE GOP.
By the people
Of the people
For the people
Or something like that.
Ring a bell?
You are 10 seconds from game over mfer'.
 
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Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,278
642
126
In the end somehting drastic will have to be done. If you don't have the money, you just don't have it. Taxing the wealthy will only help a little. Its not a lasting solution. We have a generation of entitled people who want the government to take care of their needs. That's not going to work out in the end IMO. It all has a price.
It would help out a lot. Just removing the cap makes SS go on for significantly longer with no cuts.

Lol Leaving SS intact is just between 1-3% return on the ~12% from employee/employer going to SS taxes. This is obviously nowhere near as good as many government employees who arguably have a good premium in many cases in regards to salary while socking only 0-20% (0% for military) for assumption of 7-8% return (and other sources contributing to this investment fund) with no risk.



Yep. You weren't meant to live on SS for 30 years. When it was first implemented, the average American didn't even live long enough to obtain SS! It was never supossed to be a source of income. And, if it were adjusted for life expecentcy, SS would be bumped up to 82 years old. Imagine if a politician told the truth about how we're broke, and SS needs to be readjusted. He/she would never get elected.
But it’s not the truth, and even if it was, start with government employee compensation first. Anyway, the solution is simple: tax the rich who had the stocks.

IMO, our way of thinking about money, and saving is broken. It's broken because the people at the top want consumers, and not savers/investors
What do you expect for the compounding return if everyone started saving say 10% on top of contributions of SS? Privatization is generally supplied as a solution because you sock the same percentage as SS contributions. You know… you could just tax the one’s who had the stocks. Doing what you suggested is no different but just adds transaction/management costs.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
8,471
2,348
136
Oh Look! I can do that too!

View attachment 16228



It's hilarious the lunacy of people here that still fail to realize that Social Security wasn't a means to redistribute income. It was (and still is) a means of forcing people into a supposed "retirement" program.

The reality though, is that anyone with half a brain could put themselves into a much more competent retirement program.

But hey - say "government program" and make it forced and that automatically makes it successful right?
Even though it's in shambles debt wise?
Even though the ROI is far less than if you simply invested it yourself?


Yeah, naw - it's all good!

Christ - people in my fucking generation have to calculate our net worth based on the fact that we KNOW our social security won't be there for us in 30 years. Yet we know our paychecks will continue to gouge us for it.
Could that possibly be that disabled people have a much harder time becoming employed during periods of high unemployment? When unemployment is 4% and you've had an open posting for months, you'll hire the guy in a wheelchair. When unemployment is 12% and you got 100 resumes in a week, you don't hire the guy in a wheelchair.

But until you start bitching about the massive abuses of military disability, you have no credibility to stand on. I work with several "100% disabled" veterans that never saw combat, have no problem working a full time job, go hunting, work on their houses, work on their cars, etc, yet take home a pretty large VA check every month, plus their retirement benefits.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,850
8,171
126
Fat needs to be trimmed from all sides of the steak. Some more than others - no doubt.

But the hands off my messaging needs to fucking die in a fire.
Why can't the you shouldn't expect to get what you pay taxes for messaging die in a fire first?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,850
8,171
126
The people wanting to cut benefits have no intention of controlling the debt but rather of maintaining shamelessly low taxes for the Rich. Buying the GOP has been an excellent investment for right wing mega billionaires.
There's a reason why these people wanting to cut Social Security benefits never ever talk about cutting Social Security taxes.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,278
642
126
Could that possibly be that disabled people have a much harder time becoming employed during periods of high unemployment? When unemployment is 4% and you've had an open posting for months, you'll hire the guy in a wheelchair. When unemployment is 12% and you got 100 resumes in a week, you don't hire the guy in a wheelchair.
Most won't be as obvious as a person in a wheelchair, but this a good point when that last recession hit, and conservatives actively made this more of a possibility by trying to sabotage the economy under Obama. Conservatives bitch though that they can still do something if they're discouraged or having trouble finding work. Yeah, technically a lot of people probably could still work with something like chronic lyme, and other ailments, but looking at the military analogs makes this look ridiculous when military personnel typically get $1-2+ mil lifetime payments for the same ailments under the assumption that they're still able-bodied. Since the typical SSDI recipient is 55 and receives about $1200/mo, that comes out to about $140K over a decade right before rollover, but during that period of time, you also have to forfeit work....

But until you start bitching about the massive abuses of military disability, you have no credibility to stand on. I work with several "100% disabled" veterans that never saw combat, have no problem working a full time job, go hunting, work on their houses, work on their cars, etc, yet take home a pretty large VA check every month, plus their retirement benefits.
Oh boy. I've been able to get to hear about people on profile or getting med-boarded. If it's 100%, it's about $3300/mo, which is approximately maxed out SS, so combining both military disability&retirement is essentially officer retirement.... Since Bush admin allowed concurrent receipt, a significant portion of the career 20 guys now go out with 50-100% for ridiculous stuff like sleep apnea. People who get 100% disability for PTSD will ask about or pursue LEO positions. Even for personnel that deployed, a lot of it is no different than students at high school in a school shooting (e.g. I saw a helicopter crash, knowing someone that died, mortar hit the FOB, etc.), but everyone expects the students to move on.There's a lot of guys with a 10% rating who get a large increase (60%) for depression relating to it (i.e. the "injury" being exercise-induced asthma from PT). It's complete bonkers.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
16,405
4,340
136
Once top marginal tax rate is 70%, capital gains and estates are taxed as ordinary income, Medicare negotiates prices down to the bone, wasteful defense spending is cut in half, if we are still having problems, we can discuss SS and Medicare adjustments.
Just raise the ridiculously low income cap.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,134
3,102
126
Once in a while Trump really stumbles into a minefield and sets a couple off just because he can’t read the signs.
Or he'll throw some gas on a fire out of nowhere (via Twitter) because he's bored. Has a vague idea he can deal with the reactions and his life-long belief in himself, however groundless, being paramount in his psyche (along with an unwillingness to think anything through) prevents him from developing a reticence that could serve him better.
 

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