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Trump doesnt have a plan to fight the virus on purpose. He puts the onus onto the state governors to figure out how to move ahead to deflect blame

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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
10,193
932
126
It's not a tough choice at all. You shut down the nation down until you have mostly stopped the spread while building up testing capacity, then you do aggressive testing and contact tracing just like South Korea is doing. If you try to open the economy with no strategy whatsover as our Dear Leader is going to do it's still going to shut down on its own once people start seeing their neighbors dying off just like what happened in 1918.
With the flu in 1918 it wasn't the first wave, but the second and third waves that killed the most people. We don't need to watch the news to find out what is actually happening. Just read history because it just keeps on repeating itself over and over again.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
It's not a tough choice at all. You shut down the nation down until you have mostly stopped the spread while building up testing capacity, then you do aggressive testing and contact tracing just like South Korea is doing. If you try to open the economy with no strategy whatsover as our Dear Leader is going to do it's still going to shut down on its own once people start seeing their neighbors dying off just like what happened in 1918.
Kind of lost in all this is that the decision to restart the economy isn't up to him. Governors, mayors, health officials, companies, individuals, etc all will be making their own decisions. No matter what he says there is little he can do to make them open up if they don't want to besides cutting off federal money in an extremely public way that's likely to backfire politically. Now he could have acted to stand up a testing and tracking regime that would provide the confidence required to partially restart the economy but he's decided not to do that because he's a monumentally lazy idiot with malicious motivations.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
3,009
1,424
136
Kind of lost in all this is that the decision to restart the economy isn't up to him. Governors, mayors, health officials, companies, individuals, etc all will be making their own decisions. No matter what he says there is little he can do to make them open up if they don't want to besides cutting off federal money in an extremely public way that's likely to backfire politically. Now he could have acted to stand up a testing and tracking regime that would provide the confidence required to partially restart the economy but he's decided not to do that because he's a monumentally lazy idiot with malicious motivations.
It is up to him for much of the nation because every Republican governor outside of Ohio, Maryland, and Massachusetts will follow his lead for fear of pissing his cult off.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
It is up to him for much of the nation because every Republican governor outside of Ohio, Maryland, and Massachusetts will follow his lead for fear of pissing his cult off.
Those are the governors least likely to follow his lead. DeWine shut down way early compared to everybody else. Hogan and Baker sit in their chairs due to their perceived effectiveness to fairly govern overwhelmingly blue states. I don't see any of those guys loosening up before they are comfortable. Same with essentially all the Dem states which make up an enormous amount of the national economy. I expect the latter to form workable options to exit this situation before anyone else, some may band together to do it like they are on PPE already.

If you want to look for problematic Rs who might do whatever Trump tells them the South (except NC, VA, and KY) is a better place to examine. Then again some of those governors are looking at DeSantis and probably not real excited about putting their populations at increased risk just because Trump is getting antsy.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
3,009
1,424
136
Those are the governors least likely to follow his lead. DeWine shut down way early compared to everybody else. Hogan and Baker sit in their chairs due to their perceived effectiveness to fairly govern overwhelmingly blue states. I don't see any of those guys loosening up before they are comfortable. Same with essentially all the Dem states which make up an enormous amount of the national economy. I expect the latter to form workable options to exit this situation before anyone else, some may band together to do it like they are on PPE already.

If you want to look for problematic Rs who might do whatever Trump tells them the South (except NC, VA, and KY) is a better place to examine. Then again some of those governors are looking at DeSantis and probably not real excited about putting their populations at increased risk just because Trump is getting antsy.
My governor is Greg Abbott and that fucking piece of shit is very excited about killing a bunch of Texans.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
My governor is Greg Abbott and that fucking piece of shit is very excited about killing a bunch of Texans.
Same here. I know he's agitating to end the lockdown for economic reasons by claiming that caseloads are low here. Given the relative lack of testing in TX the only way to determine if that's the case is hospital admissions which appear to be rising though not catastrophically. Also his ability to really reboot the economy is probably going to be majorly limited by the actions the populous counties and cities are willing to take to that end. I'm in Austin and I don't see the city or Travis Co eager to risk it when the peak here is forecast for late April or early May already.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
16,655
2,168
126
Kind of lost in all this is that the decision to restart the economy isn't up to him. Governors, mayors, health officials, companies, individuals, etc all will be making their own decisions. No matter what he says there is little he can do to make them open up if they don't want to besides cutting off federal money in an extremely public way that's likely to backfire politically. Now he could have acted to stand up a testing and tracking regime that would provide the confidence required to partially restart the economy but he's decided not to do that because he's a monumentally lazy idiot with malicious motivations.
The decision to start up again isn't a tough one to make. Some of my laid off employees will lose their homes if they don't get back to work pretty soon. The government isn't going to pay their bills, I can't afford to, where does that leave us?
 
May 13, 2009
12,251
439
126
Same here. I know he's agitating to end the lockdown for economic reasons by claiming that caseloads are low here. Given the relative lack of testing in TX the only way to determine if that's the case is hospital admissions which appear to be rising though not catastrophically. Also his ability to really reboot the economy is probably going to be majorly limited by the actions the populous counties and cities are willing to take to that end. I'm in Austin and I don't see the city or Travis Co eager to risk it when the peak here is forecast for late April or early May already.
They are low. Let's keep it that way. When I vote this fall he is going to be one that I vote out. Late response. Now is itching to start things up again. Can't even wait till the national lockdown is over.
 
May 13, 2009
12,251
439
126
The decision to start up again isn't a tough one to make. Some of my laid off employees will lose their homes if they don't get back to work pretty soon. The government isn't going to pay their bills, I can't afford to, where does that leave us?
Savings?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,131
13,071
136
The decision to start up again isn't a tough one to make. Some of my laid off employees will lose their homes if they don't get back to work pretty soon. The government isn't going to pay their bills, I can't afford to, where does that leave us?
Maybe they can raid that generous 401K plan you set up for them...
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
3,009
1,424
136
The decision to start up again isn't a tough one to make. Some of my laid off employees will lose their homes if they don't get back to work pretty soon. The government isn't going to pay their bills, I can't afford to, where does that leave us?
That's because we have a do nothing president and senate. Mortgage payments should be suspended in the lockdown like they are in Italy.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,435
1,810
126
Sure, when told that Trump should be worried about his pandemic response instead of how it made him look from a political perspective you wrote this:



This clearly states that whether government response is competent or not does not change the outcome. You then later stated that De Blasio's incompetent response contributed to NYC's outcome. I've got the receipts, haha.
I accept refunds, no questions asked. There are many layers of failure, some attributed to Trump, others to local leaders.

I have no problem agreeing with Dr. Fauci’s assessment that inaction at the federal level in the early weeks worsened the blow to America, and that blame unquestionably falls on Trump.

I also have no problem pointing out that California has been effective in its response where in NY, where the dysfunction between Albany and NYC worsened the blow there.

I would also acknowledge that governors across the nation are having the most direct impact on our response, which makes sense given our federalist society.

So within the context of this thread, as stated in my original post in this thread, yes some local leaders will receive valid criticism for their handling of this pandemic.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,249
3,475
136
The evangels should be out there right now defending Trump. Pestilence, and now a possible Noreaster. This is the wrath of god. He's punishing the world for not recognizing the power of our stable genius.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,356
4,627
136
Governor Cuomo announced today that he want to reopen the NY economy. Is he wrong?
Oh willful ignorant buckyboy.
If Cuomo wants to open the economy its because he has the beds and ventilators to do it. Its called a plan. You know, unlike Trumps "plan" where he just wanna let it burn through the country and kill a bunch of people.
Go back for new talkingpoints, the ones you have now is retarded even to your own years.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,356
4,627
136
What does that even mean? Is he not responsible for his response to the outbreak when he alone is the main guy in NY state? How is he the Golden child and Trump is incompetent and whatnot? When both have not had the best response to this. Oh I know, one is a democrat...
I said nuff said.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
The decision to start up again isn't a tough one to make. Some of my laid off employees will lose their homes if they don't get back to work pretty soon. The government isn't going to pay their bills, I can't afford to, where does that leave us?
Yes, it is and that's the whole point. If you swamp the medical system to the point of collapse mortality skyrockets and that's how you end up with the worse end of the projections that could include millions dead. Kind of makes the tradeoff a lot less attractive.

I think some places will be able to loosen safely relatively soon with certain controls in place. It's not going to be normal by any stretch for a while. The idea that Trump is going to make those decisions and conditions for them is extremely incorrect though. Even in China they're having trouble getting demand going again in a lot of places because people are still scared. We're going to see the same effect here.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,121
1,898
126
Oh willful ignorant buckyboy.
If Cuomo wants to open the economy its because he has the beds and ventilators to do it. Its called a plan. You know, unlike Trumps "plan" where he just wanna let it burn through the country and kill a bunch of people.
Go back for new talkingpoints, the ones you have now is retarded even to your own years.
It's almost as if Cuomo pays attention to the data and his medical experts. Notice how he hasn't given a specific date other than "ASAP". And when he says that, he means that it has to be smart, safe, and simultaneously accounting for both the public health and economic interests.

Everything I've said here is directly from his press conferences. I watch them, even though I don't live in NY, because he's actually a competent leader.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
But the bond holders will suffer! Can't have that.
If we just paid impacted people like 80% of their salaries up to a decent level through their employers and floated a deal with lenders/ bond holders for some form of subsisted forbearance for tenants (commercial and resi) we could sit out this thing without killing a bunch of people or enormous long term economic damage.

This is not the path we've chosen however.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,249
3,475
136
If we just paid impacted people like 80% of their salaries up to a decent level through their employers and floated a deal with lenders/ bond holders for some form of subsisted forbearance for tenants (commercial and resi) we could sit out this thing without killing a bunch of people or enormous long term economic damage.

This is not the path we've chosen however.
Funny how conservatives don't like picking winners or losers.
 
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Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,131
13,071
136
I accept refunds, no questions asked. There are many layers of failure, some attributed to Trump, others to local leaders.

I have no problem agreeing with Dr. Fauci’s assessment that inaction at the federal level in the early weeks worsened the blow to America, and that blame unquestionably falls on Trump.

I also have no problem pointing out that California has been effective in its response where in NY, where the dysfunction between Albany and NYC worsened the blow there.

I would also acknowledge that governors across the nation are having the most direct impact on our response, which makes sense given our federalist society.

So within the context of this thread, as stated in my original post in this thread, yes some local leaders will receive valid criticism for their handling of this pandemic.
Can we have a little more deflection over here?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,167
8,472
136
They are low. Let's keep it that way. When I vote this fall he is going to be one that I vote out. Late response. Now is itching to start things up again. Can't even wait till the national lockdown is over.
What I don't understand is why testing is so low on a population adjusted basis compared to so many states. Texas has world class universities, medical research, and clinics/hospitals not to mention any number of large companies that can be tapped for expertise/transportation/supply chain connections. Is the state just sitting on its hands waiting on the Feds?

The west coast has essentially set up an ad hoc smuggling operation to import stuff they need by putting together scroungers who know suppliers in Asia, wealthy biz guys who can expedite foreign government approvals and quietly secure cargo space or even charter entire aircraft, and are clandestinely distributing aid amongst themselves to avoid FEMA seizing it.
 
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