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Trump claims he can overrule states on ending COVID-19 shutdowns

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,282
10,094
136
Wasn't the whole point of the quarantine to prevent hospitals from become overloaded with COVID-19 cases? With the exception of perhaps NYC, that hasn't really happened. In most places, new cases seem to be dropping as well.

So... Mission Accomplished, and we can all go back to work now?
We are weeks away from that point.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,103
9,970
136
Wasn't the whole point of the quarantine to prevent hospitals from become overloaded with COVID-19 cases? With the exception of perhaps NYC, that hasn't really happened. In most places, new cases seem to be dropping as well.

So... Mission Accomplished, and we can all go back to work now?
Clearly you didn't check in with New Jersey
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,042
1,561
96
Except people following the orders is what matters. And people are having enough time following the orders when they are receiving consistent messages from their various levels of government. Trump doing this would assuredly lead to confusion and greater non-compliance = more illness, more death, more damage to the economy in the long run.

Trump looking good at the expense of lives is not "smart". It's fucking evil.
The cities and counties and states could simply abide by it, and when people start dying, say - well, either we abide by his rules, or we get no funding to treat people. If you have a problem with it or with the death toll, go talk to the guy with total authority.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
55,472
3,865
126
Except people following the orders is what matters. And people are having enough time following the orders when they are receiving consistent messages from their various levels of government. Trump doing this would assuredly lead to confusion and greater non-compliance = more illness, more death, more damage to the economy in the long run.

Trump looking good at the expense of lives is not "smart". It's fucking evil.
You can't really believe those things matter to King Donnie...and in the end, he would get what he wants...plausible deniability.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
656
96
I take it the States Right people will be all over him on this. Also, the same people who accused Obama of behaving like a king will also be all over Trump.

More importantly, for someone who takes no responsibility (over what he labeled a hoax)... he has total ownership....

Wait, who am I kidding? Conservatives won't even blink. This is what they want; a totalitarian who behaves in a manner that benefits conservatives.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,103
9,970
136
I take it the States Right people will be all over him on this. Also, the same people who accused Obama of behaving like a king will also be all over Trump.

More importantly, for someone who takes no responsibility (over what he labeled a hoax)... he has total ownership....

Wait, who am I kidding? Conservatives won't even blink. This is what they want; a totalitarian who behaves in a manner that benefits conservatives.
I believe it's called grading on a curve. Some here claim that doesn't happen for Trump. You know that affirmative action thing.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,923
1,136
126
Not until the new case rates are very low -- my understanding is that it'd ideally be down to single digits (not sure if that's per state or per city). Things are turning, but it could take weeks or more before cases really taper off.
That wasn't really the point of the quarantine, though. Until we have a vaccine, people are going to keep getting this illness. We can't keep everything shut down for a year.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,287
2,000
136
You can't really believe those things matter to King Donnie...and in the end, he would get what he wants...plausible deniability.
They do matter in some way to him, but that's a very challenging thing to define, and so long as reality is not too far outside of his ability to distort it, he won't become aware of the problem. Notably, his capacity to distort is very remarkable, and one of the chief errors people make in trying to understand Trump is expecting his glimpses into reality to stick. They don't. They reflect a failure of his ego to distort reality sufficiently, but circumstances change over time, and when his ego can go back to distorting capacity it will again function to rewrite reality including his own past actions and statements. We've seen this happen with Iran and COVID-19, although I wonder if he isn't still scared of Iran.

The other fundamental error is assuming there is some overarching durable logic to his positions from moment to moment. There isn't. He capitalizes all the time on the errors people make assuming his past behavior predicts the future. The reality is he's not a complicated puzzle. Just look at what position he thinks makes him look the best at any moment and that's the one he takes. Even if that position was different 3 seconds prior.

So what's happening here? It's not a plan. It's narcissistic rage. That's all.

Don't get me wrong. Narcissistic rage has its place in the normal function of humanity. But toddlers generally lack the capacity to kill people thankfully.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
646
656
96
I believe it's called grading on a curve. Some here claim that doesn't happen for Trump. You know that affirmative action thing.
Obama is just a Community Leader, he is unfit to be President due to his lack of political experience. Trump who has zero political experience is perfect for the job as President. Also, you have to give Trump a chance to learn his role...

It's 1 part racism, 1 part cult follower and the rest is potato.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
6,975
2,286
136
They do matter in some way to him, but that's a very challenging thing to define, and so long as reality is not too far outside of his ability to distort it, he won't become aware of the problem. Notably, his capacity to distort is very remarkable, and one of the chief errors people make in trying to understand Trump is expecting his glimpses into reality to stick. They don't. They reflect a failure of his ego to distort reality sufficiently, but circumstances change over time, and when his ego can go back to distorting capacity it will again function to rewrite reality including his own past actions and statements. We've seen this happen with Iran and COVID-19, although I wonder if he isn't still scared of Iran.

The other fundamental error is assuming there is some overarching durable logic to his positions from moment to moment. There isn't. He capitalizes all the time on the errors people make assuming his past behavior predicts the future. The reality is he's not a complicated puzzle. Just look at what position he thinks makes him look the best at any moment and that's the one he takes. Even if that position was different 3 seconds prior.

So what's happening here? It's not a plan. It's narcissistic rage. That's all.

Don't get me wrong. Narcissistic rage has its place in the normal function of humanity. But toddlers generally lack the capacity to kill people thankfully.
He's a fascinating character, in a way. At least, he would be if he were safely confined within a work of fiction. How his personal dysfunction interacts with political and social dysfunction is quite interesting.

Not sure your take on it is fully-watertight, though. "what position makes him look best at any moment" is itself going to be dependent on how he broadly views the world, surely? Looks best to whom, best by what metric? So seems to me there's a bit of circularity about that as an explanation.


edit...I think I might actually find some consolation or distraction in his being such a train-wreck personality. With someone less obviously messed-up the same political/social/economic problems could still be there, just without the distraction of watching him be so openly dysfunctional.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,199
8,526
136
Screen Shot 2020-04-14 at 10.33.43 AM.png



Well a couple things here. Trump thinks of himself as Captain Bligh from the (1962 presumably) film which...isn't flattering or good. I think were I to chose a film character comparison I think Captain Queeg from the 1954 Caine Mutiny but less smart and not at all sympathetic is a lot closer to the mark.

Also impotently raging on twitter because you can't do anything is a real alpha move.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,360
994
146
The cities and counties and states could simply abide by it, and when people start dying, say - well, either we abide by his rules, or we get no funding to treat people. If you have a problem with it or with the death toll, go talk to the guy with total authority.
But Trump takes responsibility for nothing so I guess it will be the governors' fault for listening to Trump in order to get supplies from the Federal government.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,400
4,663
136
View attachment 19586



Well a couple things here. Trump thinks of himself as Captain Bligh from the (1962 presumably) film which...isn't flattering or good. I think were I to chose a film character comparison I think Captain Queeg from the 1954 Caine Mutiny but less smart and not at all sympathetic is a lot closer to the mark.

Also impotently raging on twitter because you can't do anything is a real alpha move.
Nope... one of the chilling things here is that im 99 he didnt write that tweet... which means its policy.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
4,609
3,819
136
View attachment 19586



Well a couple things here. Trump thinks of himself as Captain Bligh from the (1962 presumably) film which...isn't flattering or good. I think were I to chose a film character comparison I think Captain Queeg from the 1954 Caine Mutiny but less smart and not at all sympathetic is a lot closer to the mark.

Also impotently raging on twitter because you can't do anything is a real alpha move.
This tweet is one of his most laughable....Since declaring the national emergency on March 16, Trump has actually done jack shit. Signed nothing, proclaimed nothing, directed nothing. He hasn't even posed for a picture wearing a fucking mask. The crisis is being managed at the state and local level, for better or worse. He's the "captain" of nothing!. He'd love to step in now and declare victory, but he has no authority to make it happen and saying so doesn't make it so. The people showing leadership have already moved forward and shown they're work, while Trump bangs his tiny fists on the lectern. The past six weeks have truly revealed that the emperor (er.."captain") has no clothes.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,024
2,920
136
This is actually pretty shrewd on Trump's part. He didn't want to be the bad guy who ordered people to stay at home, so he let the governors do it...they take the heat.
By ordering the restrictions lifted, offs are, MOST governors will defy him and leave the restrictions in place...so he can take credit for ordering them lifted...and the governors take the heat again...
IMO, he's always positioning on:
1. How not to have to do the work himself
2. Make sure he has a scapegoat when it goes to shit
3. How to take credit for whatever accomplishments others have managed to make of it

As always, the magats eat it right up, either through cluelessness or crassness

F em all
 
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Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,024
2,920
136
This tweet is one of his most laughable....Since declaring the national emergency on March 16, Trump has actually done jack shit. Signed nothing, proclaimed nothing, directed nothing. He hasn't even posed for a picture wearing a fucking mask. The crisis is being managed at the state and local level, for better or worse. He's the "captain" of nothing!. He'd love to step in now and declare victory, but he has no authority to make it happen and saying so doesn't make it so. The people showing leadership have already moved forward and shown they're work, while Trump bangs his tiny fists on the lectern. The past six weeks have truly revealed that the emperor (er.."captain") has no clothes.
Trump is this guy:

"I'm such a genius for telling you to do that... thing you did, whatever it was.
Wench, bring me another bucket of chicken..."
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
4,609
3,819
136
IMO, he's always positioning on:
1. How not to have to do the work himself
2. Make sure he has a scapegoat when it goes to shit
3. How to take credit for whatever accomplishments others have managed to make of it

As always, the magats eat it right up, either through cluelessness or crassness

F em all
Trump knows the country won't "open up" by May 1st. Instead of apologizing or telling the truth to the public. He's busy retweeting a tweet from "nobody" that Fauci should be fired. Just for his own home bred "controversy", his beautiful chaos. Controversy is a good thing according to this fraud and huckster. This shit is nothing new to him. He's made a living from "milking" and procrastinating his "decisions" to see what chaos it causes or what he can get or manipulate for himself.

This time it's not what property or business to keep open or close or bankrupt, eliminating jobs and stiffing anyone who he's owes money to. It's about whether to open up a "nation" and how many could be killed in the process. He has his "experts". He will hide behind them and at the same time contradict himself by saying he made the decision All ON HIS OWN. He will always find a scapegoat. He will always "have it both ways" as long as the American public is willing to put up with his bullshit and lies.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
55,472
3,865
126
Trump knows the country won't "open up" by May 1st. Instead of apologizing or telling the truth to the public. He's busy retweeting a tweet from "nobody" that Fauci should be fired. Just for his own home bred "controversy", his beautiful chaos. Controversy is a good thing according to this fraud and huckster. This shit is nothing new to him. He's made a living from "milking" and procrastinating his "decisions" to see what chaos it causes or what he can get or manipulate for himself.

This time it's not what property or business to keep open or close or bankrupt, eliminating jobs and stiffing anyone who he's owes money to. It's about whether to open up a "nation" and how many could be killed in the process. He has his "experts". He will hide behind them and at the same time contradict himself by saying he made the decision All ON HIS OWN. He will always find a scapegoat. He will always "have it both ways" as long as the American public is willing to put up with his bullshit and lies.
He will have "made the decision on his own" as long as it doesn't go bad...if it does, you know he will blame somebody...EVERYBODY...except himself.

Trump seems to only care about how Trump looks to Trump. I don't think he gives a crap about how other people see him...especially the unwashed masses of poors.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,060
436
126
That wasn't really the point of the quarantine, though. Until we have a vaccine, people are going to keep getting this illness. We can't keep everything shut down for a year.
Until we actually have adequate rapid testing nationwide(testing in the millions per day) and adequate contact tracing we cannot open up.

If we don’t have those two things in place prior to reopening the second wave will be bigger than the first.

This clearly spreads like wildfire. You open up now or in the new few weeks, it’s just going to get out of control again unless you have the means to effectively test everyone and quarantine all they came into contact with. Which we dont currently have. Opening to soon just causes the virus and economic problems to last even longer.

My bet is it’s June before we start reopening things. It gives us time to let cases die down and build up testing and contact tracing capabilities. It also allows us to push the second wave out a bit and allows us to stockpile necessary items(rapid testing kits, ppe, ventilators) for when the second wave does hit.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,287
2,000
136
Not sure your take on it is fully-watertight, though. "what position makes him look best at any moment" is itself going to be dependent on how he broadly views the world, surely? Looks best to whom, best by what metric? So seems to me there's a bit of circularity about that as an explanation.
The metric is entirely internal for Trump, and it certainly depends on lots of things including what he is paying attention to at the moment. What looks best for Trump is up to his whim. Yeah. How he perceives the outside world and himself are what's important here.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
55,472
3,865
126
The metric is entirely internal for Trump, and it certainly depends on lots of things including what he is paying attention to at the moment. What looks best for Trump is up to his whim. Yeah. How he perceives the outside world and himself are what's important here.
He does appear to admire the "strongmen" leaders out there...Putin, little rocketman, Xi...and maybe that's how he wants to be seen by the world.
 
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cscpianoman

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2005
1,028
121
106
I happen to like the 10th amendment in this regard

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. "
 
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